What do we Think of Dawat-e-Islami

[Muawiyah]

And with Mr Tamana Imadi, include one more name of Imam Malik please, because he as well denies that Eesa Alayhis Salam is alive, but he (Eesa a.s) died at the age of 33. Hope you are not familiar with this. Don't worry later insha Allah, I will start this topic.

Patently ridiculus Qadiyani assertion, answered long time ago. The fact that Eesaa `alyhissalaam is alive and will decend is proven like the Quraan is proven see at-Tasreeh bima Tawatara fi Nuzool il-Maseeh by Allamah Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri rahimahullaahu Ta'ala. Also refer to Kalimatullah fee Hayaat Ruhillah {Hayaat Eesaa `alyhissalaam} by Shaykh ut Tafseer Maulana Muhammad Idrees Kandhalvi rahimahullah to see how Imadi has commited fraud in quoting from Tafaseer. Imadi tried to revive Qadiyani beliefs decades after they had been thoroughly refuted by the Ulama.

[Muawiyah]

And here's what Darqutni has been quoted to say:

قلت للدار قطني: فعدي بن ثابت قال: ثقة إلاَّ أنه كان غالياً يعني في التشيع،

I said to Darqutni: What of 'Adi bin Thaabit, he said: "thiqah except that he is an extremist", meaning in Tashee' {partisanship}

And since when has accepting the opinion of the expert over that of a nobody become shirk?

[3Abdullah]

Muaviyah: Patently ridiculus Qadiyani assertion, answered long time ago. The fact that Eesaa `alyhissalaam is alive and will decend is proven like the Quraan is proven see at-Tasreeh bima Tawatara fi Nuzool il-Maseeh by Allamah Anwar Shah al-Kashmiri rahimahullaahu Ta'ala. Also refer to Kalimatullah fee Hayaat Ruhillah {Hayaat Eesaa `alyhissalaam} by Shaykh ut Tafseer Maulana Muhammad Idrees Kandhalvi rahimahullah to see how Imadi has commited fraud in quoting from Tafaseer. Imadi tried to revive Qadiyani beliefs decades after they had been thoroughly refuted by the Ulama.

Though this is off topic, but I want to clear that even Qadiyanism started with a claim for Mirza Ghulam Kafir that he was Mesiah.
Secondly, my topic on Eesa Alayhi Salam insha Allah will be to learn the truth.
In fact, I have to have a research on Quran based on both views. And I have already referenced Imam Malik (Majma' Al-Behaar Fee Hukm). Others are:

Mufti Abdah of Jame' Azhar
His student, Maraghi
Ash-Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab
Maulana Obedullah Sindhi (Deoband School of Thought)
Maulana Abul Kalam Azaad (Ahl-al-Hadith School of Thought) etc.

But since I am not a blind follower of any of them, only that my heart is inclined to accept that, but I will establish my belief over Mashih (a.s)'s decent after I myself research on Quran, insha Allah..

By then Allah Hafiz

[abeer_xyz]

This sort of argumentation is not new, it's the kind of talk that led Mr.Tamana Imadi to become kaafir by denying that Eesaa `alyhissalaam is alive, because Imaam Zuhri the narrator of the two saheeh ahadeeth in saheeh Bukhari about this was described as shi'i.

I don't know whether Jesus (peace be upon him) issue (alive or died) has anything to do with IMAN. Why are we so haste in ascribing others “deviants” or “kafirs” depending only on their judgments over subjects that has no relation with IMAN? We should be content with saying only that he/they is/are wrong. The Koran is not very clear about Jesus’ being still alive. Only sahih hadith can establish that he is still alive.

[Muawiyah]

Why are we so haste in ascribing others “deviants” or “kafirs” depending only on their judgments over subjects that has no relation with IMAN?.

The belief that Eesaa `alyhissalaam is alive and will decend before the qiyamah is proven through mass-transmitted ahadeeth, and through the ijmaa` of the Muslimeen. It is from the necessities of the deen which has been known to all Muslim throughout the ages, therefore it is kufr to disbelieve in it.

[3Abdullah]

Muawiyah: The belief that Eesaa `alyhissalaam is alive and will decend before the qiyamah is proven through mass-transmitted ahadeeth, and through the ijmaa` of the Muslimeen. It is from the necessities of the deen which has been known to all Muslim throughout the ages, therefore it is kufr to disbelieve in it.

This is all your opinion (and the opinion of, I agree, a big group of scholars), but the ground reality is that 'Imam Malik', who is followed by a large number of people on earth also have the same belief which you are regarding Kufr.

Brother Abeer is right that there is no Clear Verse in Quran (not a single word) in favour of Hadhrat Isa's redescent, and our beliefs are governed by Quran, and people don't have any concern how important this belief of Hadhrat Isa's redescent is.
To a great extent this belief goes against the 'Aqeeda of Khatm-e-Nubuwwah (Seal of Prophets), but what to do, after all we have to follow our scholars, who govern our Basic Beliefs. (wAllahu A'lam)

I agree there are hadiths, but they have been criticised.

If I had time, I myself would do a research on it, because right now, I don't have any belief about Isa a.s, if he will come back or not; after I have a thorough research on Quran insha Allah.

And brother, Ijma' of Ummah ended with Companions of Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam, or with the 12 Caliphs of Islam. And this claim is baselss that Muslim Ummah had any Ijma' (consensus) under the banner of any Imam (Caliph) after that.

For example tell me, is there any Ijma' of Ummah over Mawleed?
Certainly not, so many schools, so many scholars, so many mouths.

Is there any Ijma' on Sufi'ism? on Wasilah?

The truth is that there exists no Ijma' of Ummah after the Companions or our Caliphs.

[Mossy]

Huh? Can you quote what Imam Malik said?

[3Abdullah]

As I have said, I haven't by now researched myself on this issue, but I can give you the reference I got now:

'Imam Malik rahimahullah said that he ('Isa alayhis salam) has died at the age of 33 years.'

(Majma' Al-Behaar Fee Hukm)

And I think Imam Malik is a Taba' Taba'i, that is to say his period was so close to the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam.

Mod Edit

This quote has indeed been attributed to Imam Malik in Majma' al-Bihar, but it is without sanad, in contradiction of ijma and unbelievable in view of Imam Malik's high status in Knowledge and the Deen.

[Mossy]

Hmm. Not heard of that text, then again I get confused by transliterations..

I think that's enough on this topic, it's kinda wandered off course..