Abu Haneefah and Ahnaaf on dead not hearing from Neylwi Deobandi

[navman35]

It is not only so called barelvis that believe the prophet sawas but most orthodox sunnis (which the barelvis are). And remeber it is Nur and Bashar at the same time. So please don't try to mislead.

mashlah brother i think u like to enjoy this typical debates of noor and bashar and then class the barelvis as orthodox sunnis lol.
well as u mention that it is not just the barelvis so can i ask u what u mean by noor.eg physicaly nur,spiritualy nur (ruh) or nur e hedayat.can u do wazahat of ur aqaeed.

[navman35]

Brother, i have read this book but may be overlooked this statement, can you please give me reference of the page?

Wassalam

let me get hold of the book again and inshalah il try to clear it out for you

[aaskir]

subhanalah bro aaskir u do really know how to twist peoples words lol.

Brother, I would like to know how I twisted your words. I am not a Ghair Muqallid to do such things. I am a Hanfi, deobandi and have greaaaaaaaaaat respect for other three Imams as well... Alhumdolillah

I think you can make me understand without using cutting remarks like "twisting"... Anyway, this may be your writing style... so let it go

if a woman came up 2 a molvi and said can u make dua for me that i may have kids cuz ive been doing dua for ten years and i cant have kids.the molvi asks are you married? she said no.have u been touched by a man?she said no.the molvi said to her listen sister u need to get married with a man and then u need to sleep with him and then if allah wills you will have kidz.she said well i dnt need to sleep with a man to have kids cuz i have dalleel from the quran that maryam (as) was not touched by a man and she had a son for this reason allah can give me kids.then the mulvi explain that 1 is allah ki qudrat and the other is the qanoon.maryams waqia in the quran is a mujazah a qudrat of allah and for us is a qanoon of allah to follow not the qudrat.

Please ponder on the sentences I wrote in previous post:

1) We need to understand what can be presented as daleel and for what


2) As I said before the journey to the heaven was a miracle but the events that took place and things shown to him were real and can be very much presented as daleel. Those were neither part of dream nor mojiza but actual things.

bro im talkin to you about the qanoon and qudrat.mujazats cum under qudaratullah. 1 is allah ki qudrat and the other is the qanoon.maryams waqia in the quran is a mujazah a qudrat of allah and for us is a qanoon of allah to follow not the qudrat.

Now going of Prophet (saw) was a mojiza which you call is “Qudrat” of Allah… and no one denies this. But out of this mojiza we have daleel for other things which you call “qanoon” for example:

“…There are five prayers every day and night. O Muhammad, each being credited as ten, so that makes fifty prayers…” (Taken from lengthy hadees on night journey to heavens, Muslim Book 001, Number 0309)

And daleel for another “qanoon” out of this mojiza:

“He who intends to do a good deed and does not do it will have a good deed recorded for him; and if he does it, it will be recorded for him as ten; whereas he who intends to do an evil deed and does not do, it will not be recorded for him; and if he does it, only one evil deed will be recorded” (Taken from lengthy hadees on night journey to heavens, Muslim Book 001, Number 0309)

So how I twisted your words?

wassalam

[sunnimale]

mashalah the brother has put so much in just 1 post to answer it all its a mission and a half.the above statement which i have quoted from him of meraj and so forth is totally clear thats its a mujazah.mujazah is from the qudrat of allah not from his qaanoon.you must understand the deferent between qaanoon and qudrat of allah.for daleel you can't used qudrat as daleel.it has to be a qanoon.for aqeedah you have to use a daleel which is naas is qat ee.
also if you were to read from the beginning the discussion is Abu Haneefah and Ahnaaf on dead not hearing(aaam not khaas).refereing to sama e muata not on hayatul ambia(as).
so as a hanafi what is the hanafi majority and imam abu hanifa's view?
its clear as being discussed before.
Shah Muhammad Ishaq said in Miatu Masail p 46 showed fatawa from Kafi, Fathul Qadeer, Kifayah and others to prove that majority of Ahnaf deny listening from dead. Muhammad Ibrahim Dehlawi said in Kashful Mughaltat p 16 listening from dead is not established in Hanafi madhab.
Mufti Azizu Rahman Uthmani Deobandi has many fatwa denying dead hearing. He said : “Sima’ mawta is a mukhtalaf fihi masalah. Hanfiyah do inkar of sima’ Mawta, and this is also the madhab of Aishah Siddiqah, and the Ayat of the Quran is daleel for that” ( Fatawa Darul Ulum tarteeb Thafeerud Deen Deobandi v 5 p 441)
also about abu haneefa (ra).
Fatawa Darul Ulum Azizu fatawa Deoband v 3 p 14 : “ Sima’ mawta is not established for Abu Haneefah.
And he said in v 3 p 96 of same book : “ And it is clear that thing that goes over limits becomes forbidden, as the ta’theem of graves in nowadays until people put ghulaf and chadren on them, and these things are leading to shirk and are calling to shirk as it is seen, and sima’ of dead is not established, rather there is a Qat’ee nass on absence of hearing…and the hadeeth of badr as been answered in fath and others and the hadeeth of dead hearing ni’al of shoes has been interpreted as being khas at the beginning of being put in grave only”
well anyway cuz the brother has writern so much i will slowly answer each part of the quote cuz maybe i dnt have much free time then him or he has more tym or may be mashalah he is gifted.as they say have achaaa ghumaan (think good of your brothers)
just a word of advice.as brothers are aware they should try not to make the post so long that some one dosnt get tym to read or answer it.

Its good to see that finally people have accepted that prophets are alive in their grave in physical form and not only soul . Earlier we saw some one trying to prove that prophets are alive with soul and not body . Also trying to prove that Musa alaihissalam was performing salah with SOUL and not body!!
DO they forget this hadith


inn-Allaha qad Harrama `ala al-arDi an ta'kula ajsâd al-anbiyâ'.

"Allah has defended the earth from consuming the bodies of Prophets".

A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Aws ibn Aws al-Thaqafi by: Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Abi Shaybah in the Musannaf, Abu Dawud in the Sunan, Nisa'i in his Sunan, Ibn Majah in his Sunan, Darimi in his Musnad, Ibn Khuzaymah in his Sahih, ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Hakim in the Mustadrak, Tabarani in his Kabir, Bayhaqi in Hayat al-anbiya', Suyuti in Anba' al-adkhiya, Dhahabi who confirmed Hâkim's grading, and Nawawi in the Adhkar.
Another version in Ibn Maja has this addition:

"And the Prophet of Allah is alive and provided for."
fa nabiyyallahi Hayyun yurzaq
Bayhaqi mentions it also in the Sunan al-kubra.


And when this hadith was quoted


al-anbiyâ'u aHyâ'un fi qubûrihim yuSallûn

"The Prophets are alive in their graves, praying to their Lord".
And also this

(laylata usra bi) marartu `ala Mûsa wa huwa qâ'imun yuSalli fi qabrihi

"(The night I was enraptured to my Lord) I saw Mûsa standing in prayer in his grave".
The point that it was soul and not body was refuted already

The salat includes bowing (ruku') and prostration (sajda). And this shows that they performed salat corporally, with their bodies. Musa's ('alaihi 's-salam) performing salat in his grave also indicates this. It was declared in the hadith ash-Sharif quoted in the book Mishkat [Last volume, section on the Miraj chapter one.] on the authority of Muslim, "Near the Kaba, the disbelievers of the Quraish asked me how the Bait al-muqaddas was. I had not looked at it carefully. I become very stressful. Allahu ta'ala showed me. I saw myself among prophets. Musa ('alaihi 's-salam) was performing salat standing up.

He was thin. His hair was not untidy or drooping. He was like a brave young man of the Shan'a tribe [of the Yaman]. 'Isa ('alaihi 's-salam) looked like Urwat ibn Masud as-Saqafi." These hadiths prove that prophets are alive in Allah's audience. Their bodies have become ethereal like their souls. They are not dense or solid. They may become visible in material and spiritual worlds. It is for this reason that prophets can be seen in soul and body. The hadith ash-Sharif explains that Musa and 'Isa ('alaihima 's-Salam) were performing salat, which involves physical actions that are to be done with the body, not with the soul. Muhammad's ('alaihi 's-salam) description of Musa ('alaihi 's-salam) with medium height, lean and thin, and with tidy hair shows that he saw not his soul bot his body.

So salafi friends will not have objection to Tawassul through Anbiya since they are alive !!


AS far as " qudrat" and " qanoon" is considered , CAN YOU PLEASE READ ABOVE AND SEE THAT THIS IS A QANOON ( GENERALLY APPLICABLE ) TO ALL THE PROPHETS IN GRAVE!!


After providing quotes of Ibn taimiyah, iBn qayyim ( forget the scholars of ahle sunnah!) , I do not know what do salafis want .

Please go through this

againhttp://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14857&page=5&pp=10



next time Insha Allah from brazil
wassalam