Last edited by tamiki; 24-07-2006 at 09:43 PM.
The thing that gets me about when people ask if Jihad is fardh e ayn on those living in the West is the fact that no one fails to consider that if, for argument's sake, it was fardh e ayn on all of us, do you really think that any of the Muslim scholars, students of knowledge, or "ambassadors", would really come out and say so? In fact, I am not even sure that, Islamically, given the repercussions that would have, that they are even obliged to do so if it is the case.
It is because of this that I really don't put much faith into what is said regarding the subject by scholars and people of knowledge in the West, at least not post-9/11. I do not realistically believe that even if the answer is "Yes, Jihad is Fardh upon you" that I would be told that.
May Allah save and guide us all.
Why do you think that you wouldn't be told that? If it is fard 'ayn and an emergency therefore and leaving it and calling to it would lead to greater evil than getting locked up or tortured, would the scholars stay silent about it? Well, Allah knows best, but I doubt that a sincere person would. We know of quite a few people who have talked and they are naturally in jail etc.
Maybe you meant something else.
Its a very complicated mas'ala.
The awaam cannot understand where to put the hands in salaah..never mind the detailed rules of qitaal.
I think you should trust the ulema.
They are not all ambassadors to the west.
Many of them hold politically incorrect opinions on homosexuality etc.
Also, many ask women to wear the niqaab in the west -which is disliked by the authorities.
The good ulema will not mislead you.They will tell you the hukm you need for your situation.
If that hukm was that you must make hijra and fight, they too would leave and tell you to.
But the situation demands what they say- and there are impeccable ulema who live in the west and fear Allah(Swt) more than George Bush and Tony Blair-believe me.
So the hukm they give is by the rules of Islaam-not the poilitical necessity.
However Islaam also commands hikmah too - so maybe not everything is openly said.
Above all trust the good ulema.
Well, I don't know about others, but I keep on telling myself that even the 'ulama are just human beings. Human beings are tested with hawa and the 'ulama are under pressure in addition to that. Allah knows the mukhlis from the mufsid, but should we make blind trust our way totally, then that is something to think about.
Do you not remember "the jihadi shaikh" Nasir al-Fahd of Saudi-Arabia and how it was said that even he was forced to publicly take back his views which lead people against the rulers of the muslims and the western rulers as well? If this is the case, do you think that all other callers, not to mention those who aren't "that extreme in jihad" as this shaikh or even befriend the western gouvermnets, stay silent or even speak against jihad because of fearing nobody else but Allah...? Allah knows best...
Sure there are situations and places where it's better for one to stay silent, but if nobody speaks at all, then who will speak? Somebody has to speak, isn't it so?
As I have said before, even if, for argument's sake, Jihad were Fardh e Ayn on those Muslims living in the West, I don't believe that those Ulema who are not in jail, house arrest, etc. would tell us that. At a minimum, I think it highly unlikely that they would do so after 9/11.
If they were to do so, obviously there would be allegations of terrorism against them. Look at the case of the prominent Muslim speaker in Virginia who was arrested for merely saying, even before the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, that if a Muslim nation were attacked by a non-Muslim one and its inhabitants were incapable of defending themselves, it would be permissible for Muslims to aid them against that nation. He did not even talk about it being Fardh e Ayn, just confirmed its permissibility.
Furthermore, I am sure that many Ulema who believe that Jihad is Fardh e Ayn upon those living in the West but do not say so, or advance non-Mutamid positions which say that it isn't, or try to get the debate off course by playing games of "semantics gymnastics" and turning the answer to the question of whether Jihad is fardh e Ayn on those living in the West into one about the incompatibility of terror attacks with Islam, etc. believe that they are serving a greater good by doing so so that the Muslims are not arrested or discriminated against unjustly. As to whether they are correct for doing so, I will let those more knowledgeable than me answer that, but if we know that one, in times of duress, can even deny believing in La ilaha illa allah Muhammadur Rasulullah, then surely one can see how they (i.e. Ulema who believe that Jihad is Fardh e Ayn on those living in the West) may rationalize giving the impression that Jihad is not Fardh e Ayn on those living in the West in a post-9/11 world.
The belief that just because some Ulema are not afraid to hold "Politically Incorrect" views on Homosexuality or Niqab that they will also not be afraid to publicly voice a "Politically Incorrect" view about Jihad does not stand up to scrutiny. The ramifications of voicing a "Politically Incorrect" view on Homosexuality as opposed to Jihad, in a post-9/11 world where "Jihad" is equated with terrorism, are poles apart. Further still, consider how many of the teachers of the Ulema, the Ulema themselves, students of knowledge, etc. in the West and even in some of the more repressive Muslim lands, who used to talk about the obligation of assisting the Afghans in their Jihad against the Soviets in the 80's and of how praiseworthy an effort it was despite the excesses committed by some of the Mujahideen, were and are quite silent about the U.S. government's invasion of Afghanistan. 9/11 made it unpopular and unsafe to promote or even identify a valid Jihad.
Let no one be confused about as to what I am saying. I am not saying that I endorse the view that Jihad is Fardh e Ayn on those living in the West, nor that that if an Alim who believes that Jihad is Fardh e Ayn on those living in the West does not express that if he is under duress or believes that to do so would harm Muslims, then he is necessarily in the wrong. All I am saying is that I highly doubt that even if an Alim believes that Jihad is Fardh e Ayn on those living in the West, that he would openly express that, either for fear of going to Jail or for fear that the Muslims in the West would be subject to undue harm.
What gets to me is when people really think that they will get an unbiased, objective, accurate, comprehensive yet to the point, answer about the issue of Jihad and the Muslims in the West from Ulema living in the West. We need to wake up to the fact that it is highly unlikely that we will get one so long as "terranoia" predominates here.
May Allah save and guide us all.
Last edited by Sunni_Student786; 18-07-2006 at 09:39 PM.
ok, good points. and i agree.
i am no `alim, but i still don't believe jihad is fard al-ayn on muslims of the west (which would consequently mean male and female).
What are you reasons for this belief? Just as you may have read the conditions for when Salat becomes fard 'ayn upon an individual, and you trust what the classical fuqaha say .. they have said similar statements with regards to jihad. The books of fiqh are quite clear on the conditions for when it becomes fard 'ayn. Do you believe that a) those conditions have not been fulfilled, or b) the conditions have been fulfilled but there are some other circumstances which removes the status of fard 'ayn.Originally Posted by sufisticated
If it's b), what are those special circumstances which removes the status of fard 'ayn, and which classical scholar supports this argument.
This is just an exercise in developing strong arguments against those extreme elements who say that fighting and all that nasty stuff is incumbent upon every muslim in the whole world. By answering the above in a comprehensive manner, sunnis will be able to respond to those who say otherwise.
The only information I have is that which is publicly available. Mufti Ibrahim Desai is of the opinion that there is indeed valid jihads going on and is indeed fard 'ayn upon those who are directly brutalized by the infidels, and only becomes fard 'ayn upon those near them and so on if the resistance is not enough. At the same time, they say that it is currently fard kifaya upon everyone else apart from those who are directly attacked.Originally Posted by tamiki
Their default answer:
I have not heard from any mainstream sunni scholar that jihad is fard 'ayn upon everyone in the world, or even exhorting those who are nearby or are even directly brutalized to perform jihad. The only scholars who I have heard or read such statements from are salafi, wahabbi, or scholars who claim to be sunni .. yet are looked down upon by 'mainstream' sunnis ex. Masood Azhar (see basair blog .. he labels his group as 'pseudo-deobandis' with an agenda that is not inline with the behavior and priorities of the elders of deoband).
All of this information is availble with a few google searches .. no surprises here.
If you believe that then why are you on this forum wasting your time
discussing the issue.
If someone truly wants to answer these questions travel to the muslim lands,
find ulema .learn fiqh from them for many years and you'll discover the answer.
If the ulema in the west dont want to say for various reasons- why the HELL are WE CREATING A FITNA