Mufti of the Shafi'is - Imam al-Ramli (rh) on Istigatha (seeking Aid with the Awliya)

[faqir]

The fatwa of the famous Shafi'i Imam, Shaikh Shams al-Din al-Ramli RH. on Istigatha (Seeking Aid)

His father is Imam Shihab al-Din al-Ramli and he was a student of Shaykh al-Islam Zakarriya al-Ansari.

Needless to say he is a massive authority for the Shafi'is!

The Askimam site has a short biography of the shaikh (rh) HERE for those who require more information about him.


The following is an interesting fatwa of his:

see: Fatwa of Imam al-Ramli

( سُئِلَ ) عَمَّا يَقَعُ مِنْ الْعَامَّةِ مِنْ قَوْلِهِمْ عِنْدَ الشَّدَائِدِ يَا شَيْخُ فُلَانٌ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَنَحْوِ ذَلِكَ مِنْ الِاسْتِغَاثَةِ بِالْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَالْمُرْسَلِينَ وَالْأَوْلِيَاءِ وَالْعُلَمَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ فَهَلْ ذَلِكَ جَائِزٌ أَمْ لَا وَهَلْ لِلرُّسُلِ وَالْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَالْأَوْلِيَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ وَالْمَشَايِخِ إغَاثَةٌ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهِمْ وَمَاذَا يُرَجِّحُ ذَلِكَ ؟ ( فَأَجَابَ ) بِأَنَّ الِاسْتِغَاثَةَ بِالْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَالْمُرْسَلِينَ وَالْأَوْلِيَاءِ وَالْعُلَمَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ جَائِزَةٌ وَلِلرُّسُلِ وَالْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَالْأَوْلِيَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ إغَاثَةٌ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهِمْ ؛ لِأَنَّ مُعْجِزَةَ الْأَنْبِيَاءِ وَكَرَامَاتِ الْأَوْلِيَاءِ لَا تَنْقَطِعُ بِمَوْتِهِمْ . أَمَّا الْأَنْبِيَاءُ فَلِأَنَّهُمْ أَحْيَاءٌ فِي قُبُورِهِمْ يُصَلُّونَ وَيَحُجُّونَ كَمَا وَرَدَتْ بِهِ الْأَخْبَارُ وَتَكُونُ الْإِغَاثَةُ مِنْهُمْ مُعْجِزَةً لَهُمْ . وَالشُّهَدَاءُ أَيْضًا أَحْيَاءٌ شُوهِدُوا نَهَارًا جِهَارًا يُقَاتِلُونَ الْكُفَّارَ . وَأَمَّا الْأَوْلِيَاءُ فَهِيَ كَرَامَةٌ لَهُمْ فَإِنَّ أَهْلَ الْحَقِّ عَلَى أَنَّهُ يَقَعُ مِنْ الْأَوْلِيَاءِ بِقَصْدٍ وَبِغَيْرِ قَصْدٍ أُمُورٌ خَارِقَةٌ لِلْعَادَةِ يُجْرِيهَا اللَّهُ تَعَالَى بِسَبَبِهِمْ وَالدَّلِيلُ عَلَى جَوَازِهَا أَنَّهَا أُمُورٌ مُمْكِنَةٌ لَا يَلْزَمُ مِنْ جَوَازِ وُقُوعِهَا مُحَالٌ وَكُلُّ مَا هَذَا شَأْنُهُ فَهُوَ جَائِزُ الْوُقُوعِ وَعَلَى الْوُقُوعِ قِصَّةُ مَرْيَمَ وَرِزْقُهَا الْآتِي مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ عَلَى مَا نَطَقَ بِهِ التَّنْزِيلُ وَقِصَّةُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ ، وَأَضْيَافِهِ كَمَا فِي الصَّحِيحِ وَجَرَيَانُ النِّيلِ بِكِتَابِ عُمَرَ وَرُؤْيَتُهُ وَهُوَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ جَيْشَهُ بِنَهَاوَنْدَ حَتَّى قَالَ لِأَمِيرِ الْجَيْشِ يَا سَارِيَةَ الْجَبَلَ مُحَذِّرًا لَهُ مِنْ وَرَاءِ الْجَبَلِ لِكَمِينِ الْعَدُوِّ هُنَاكَ ، وَسَمَاعُ سَارِيَةَ كَلَامَهُ وَبَيْنَهُمَا مَسَافَةُ شَهْرَيْنِ ، وَشُرْبُ خَالِدٍ السُّمَّ مِنْ غَيْرِ تَضَرُّرٍ بِهِ . وَقَدْ جَرَتْ خَوَارِقُ عَلَى أَيْدِي الصَّحَابَةِ وَالتَّابِعِينَ وَمَنْ بَعْدَهُمْ لَا يُمْكِنُ إنْكَارُهَا لِتَوَاتُرِ مَجْمُوعِهَا ، وَبِالْجُمْلَةِ مَا جَازَ أَنْ يَكُونَ مُعْجِزَةً لِنَبِيٍّ جَازَ أَنْ يَكُونَ كَرَامَةً لِوَلِيٍّ لَا فَارِقَ بَيْنَهُمَا إلَّا التَّحَدِّي .

[Rough translation - please advise if their are any mistakes]


[FONT="Garamond"]
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The Imam was asked:

Regarding what occurs amongst the awwam who when in distress say "Ya sheikh fulan" and "Ya RasulAllah" and things like this from seeking aid (istighatha) with the prophets and the awliya the ulema and the righteous - is this permitted or not? And do the Messengers, Prophets, Awliya, the righteous, and the Mashayikh possess the ability to assist others after their deaths and what strengthens that view?

SEE:

http://www.************/index.php?opt...d=17&Itemid=48

was-salam

[StudentofIslam]

for sharing this

[salman]

salamu `alaykum

Sidi Faqir, please note here that:

[1] The above work of Imam Ramili is a collection of his *fathers* legal verdicts on the issue, Imam Shihab al Din Ramili. (I've pasted part of the intro. below wherein he mentions this)

[2] That he himself does not seem to disagree with his fathers verdict, much less consider the specific issue at hand as bida` or shirk, as is evident from his acceptance of it.

So, in essence, here we can say that both Imam Shihab al Din Ramili and Imam Shams al Din Ramili allowed the above.

Another point to note is:

[3] Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan, whom AskImam referred to as "the pre-eminent scholar and the Shafi'i mufti of Makkah in the second half of the 13th century" also explicitly allowed istigatha. Qadhi Yusuf Nabhani actually reproduces his verdict in his Shawahid al Haq.

Lastly, Ibn Hajar also allows it, as has been mentioned numerous times on this site. Thus, every individual within the AskImam link allows this practice.

Wasalam
Salman

وَإِنْ كَانَ لَهَا أَشْبَاهٌ فِي الْكُتُبِ الْمَبْسُوطَةِ فَلَا تُلْقَى غَالِبًا إلَّا فِي الْعُثُورِ حَمَلَنِي ذَلِكَ عَلَى جَمْعِ مَا وَجَدْتُهُ مِنْ فَتَاوَى سَيِّدِي وَشَيْخِي وَوَالِدِي الشَّيْخِ الْإِمَامِ وَالْحَبْرِ الْهُمَامِ خَاتِمَةِ الْمُتَأَخِّرِينَ أَحْمَدَ شِهَابِ الدِّينِ الرَّمْلِيِّ الْأَنْصَارِيِّ الشَّافِعِيِّ وَهَا أَنَا أَذْكُرُهَا عَلَى تَرْتِيبِ أَبْوَابِ الْفِقْهِ الْعِبَادَاتِ فَالْمُعَامَلَاتِ فَالْمُنَاكَحَاتِ فَالْجِنَايَاتِ وَمَا وَقَعَ لَهُ مِنْ الْأَسْئِلَةِ عَنْ تَفْسِيرِ آيَةٍ أَوْ حَدِيثٍ أَوْ شَيْءٍ مِنْ كَلَامِ أَحَدِ الْعُلَمَاءِ أَوْ شَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِ أُصُولِ الْفِقْهِ أَوْ عِلْمِ الْكَلَامِ أَوْ عِلْمِ النَّحْوِ أَوْ نَحْوِ ذَلِكَ مِمَّا لِاخْتِصَاصِ لَهُ بِبَابٍ مِنْ الْأَبْوَابِ جَعَلْته آخِرًا لِتَسْهُلَ مُرَاجَعَةُ ذَلِكَ وَأَسْأَلُ اللَّهَ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ الْعَمِيمِ أَنْ يَجْعَلَ ذَلِكَ خَالِصًا لِوَجْهِهِ الْكَرِيمِ وَهُوَ حَسْبِي وَنِعْمَ الْوَكِيلُ

Ps: Another Ramili, Khayr al Din, also allowed istigatha explicitly. He was a major Hanafi scholar and a teacher of Imam Haskafi. Ibn `Abidin cites him a number of times in his Rad al Muhtar as well and relies upon him.

[nik61]

The fatwa of the famous Shafi'i Imam, Shaikh Shams al-Din al-Ramli RH. on Istigatha (Seeking Aid)
His father is Imam Shihab al-Din al-Ramli and he was a student of Shaykh al-Islam Zakarriya al-Ansari.
Needless to say he is a massive authority for the Shafi'is!

Jazakallahu khair brother for highlighting the matter. Actually we Shafi'is believe that Imam Shams al-Ramli was the Mujaddid for the 10th century. Together with Imam al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Haitami they were the foremost reference point for the Shafi'i madhhab.

[loveProphet]

JazakAllah Khair all for that.
Very wonderful,

[Ansari_UK]

I love these Shafi scholars and need to know more about them. Ibn Hajar and Imam Ghazali (Allah be pleased with them) i know already. Any good sites?

[faqir]

Thus, every individual within the AskImam link allows this practice.

except the askimam imam himself!







ibn Hajar Al-Haytami and Imam Ramli. I am curious as to why the Shafis rely on these two seeing all the other major fuqaha that adhered to this madhab

The ulema rely on for their fatwa, ibn Hajar Al-Haytami and Imam Ramli. I am curious as to why the Shafis rely on these two seeing all the other major fuqaha that adhered to this madhab. I would also like to know more about these two figures, could you provide a biography of each inshaAllah. Also some information on their works and students. Are there any works out there that highlight the differences between these two scholars? If it is not two much to ask could you point out where ibn Hajar and Ramli differed in the basics of worship (tahara, salah, fasting, etc)? 2) Who (or could you provide some information about) is Ahmad ibn Zayni Dahlan? JazakumAllah Khayr.

Answer 13545 2005-02-10



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The phenomenon of divergent opinions exists both between the various madhahib, and within one madhhab. Had it been that there are no differences within a particular madhhab, there would not have been the need to single out certain authorities within a madhhab for the purposes of recension and authentication. But differences do exist, as stated, even within one madhhab.

Such being the case, the authorities upon whose recension and authentication reliance will be placed have to fulfil certain requirements. They will obviously have to enjoy a high degree of scholarly repute and pristine character, so as to ensure the requisite eligibility and integrity for the task. And chronologically they need to be placed at the close of a stage of development within their madhhab. It is only one who stands at a watershed juncture such as this who can comprehensively look back upon a legacy, and it is only one capable of such a comprehensive overview of a legacy who is able to perform the task of recension and authentication coherently.

In the Shafi`i madhhab there were two such junctures. The first came after the 5th century. After Imam al-Shafi`i the madhhab developed, initially in Baghdad, and then, from about the middle of the 4th century (circa 350AH) in the twin schools (called tariqahs) of `Iraq (Baghdad and Basrah) and Khurasan (Marw and Nishapur). This period culminated in the works of Imam Abu Is'haq al-Shirazi (died 476AH) in the Iraqi tariqah, and the famous Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (died 505AH) in the Khurasani tariqah.

The task of sifting through the respective fiqh legacies of the two tariqahs then fell to the lot of two scholars of the madhhab, both of whom fulfil the requirements mentioned earlier. They were Imam Abu l-Qasim al-Rafi`i of Qazwin (died 623AH) and Imam Abu Zakariyya al-Nawawi of Damascus (died 676AH).

Thus, by the end of the 7th century the fiqh legacy of the Shafi`i madhhab had undergone a complete recension. This, however, did not mean that development in the madhhab had come to an end. During the following two centuries development would continue unabated in the contributions of scholars the likes of al-Subki, al-Bulqini, al-Isnawi, al-Adhra`i, al-Zarkashi Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya and al-Mahalli. With the dawn of the 10th century there arose once again a need for recension along the lines of the first one. Again, as in the first recension, this undertaking would require the right men at the right time.

These men came to be Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (died 974AH) and Imam Shams al-Din al-Ramli (died 1004AH). Both of them were scholars of the highest competence and virtue, and they lived at the close of the second period of development of the madhhab. Therefore they were suited more eminently and capably than others to perform the undertaking of recension upon a legacy of development of which they themselves were the direct and immediate heirs.

IBN HAJAR
Shihad al-Din Abu l-`Abbas Ahmad ibn Muhammad, known as Ibn Hajar was born in 909AH at Mahallat Abi l-Haytam in the western province of Egypt. He memorized the Qur'an at an early age, as well as Imam al-Nawawi's Minhaj. His initial studies were under the scholars of Tanta, and thereafter at al-Azhar in Cairo where he studied under the likes of Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya al-Ansari, Shihab al-Din al-Ramli (the father of Shams al-Din) and others. He gained a reputation for expertise in various branches of knowledge, but more especially fiqh. From Egypt he traveled for Hajj on several occasions, and eventually he migrated to Makkah where he wrote his major works, taught fiqh and issued fatwa according to the Shafi'i madhhab. His fatawa, on account of his being located in Makkah, traveled far and wide. He was an enormously prolific author whose writings include
Tuhfat al-Muhtaj, a commentary on al-Nawawi's Minhaj
Al-Minhaj al-Qawim, a coomentary on BaFadl's Muqaddimah
Al-Fatawa al-Fiqqhiyyah al-Kubra
Al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyyah
Sharh al-`Ubab
Fat'h al-Jawwad
a commentary on al-Nawawi's Idah fi Manasik al-Hajj
Fat'h al- Ilah, a commentary on al-Tabrizi's Mishkat al-Masabih

He died at Makkah in 974AH.

AL-RAMLI
Shams al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad was born in Ramlah, a village near Manufiyyah in Egypt, in 919AH. He was the son of a famous Shafi`i faqih and mufti, Shihab al-Din Ahmad al-Ramli. His teachers include his father, Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya al-Ansari and al-Khatib al-Shirbini. After his father's death he became the chief Shafi'i mufti in Egypt. Such was his eminence that many came to identify him as the Mujaddid of his century. His works include
Nihayat al-Muhtaj, a commentary on al-Nawawi's Minhaj
Ghayat al-Bayan, a commentary on Ibn Ruslan's Zubad
a commentary on Shaykh al-Islam's Tahrir
a commentary on al-Nawawi's Idah fi Manasik al-Hajj
a collection of his father's fatwas

He died at Cairo in 1004AH.

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN IBN HAJAR AND RAMLI
Shaykh `Ali BaSabrayn, in his book Ithmid al-`Aynayn fi Ikhtilaf al-Shaykhayn has indicated the points on which Ibn Hajar and Ramli differ. This list given by him, however, is restricted to the `ibadat only, i.e taharah, salah, zakah, sawm and hajj. The rest of their differences could be gleaned from works such as `Abd al-Hamid al-Shirwani's hashiyah on Ibn Hajar's Tuhfat al-Muhtaj, or al-Bujayrimi's hashiyah on Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya's Fath al-Wahhab Sharh Manhaj al-Tullab, as well as upon al-Khatib al-Shirbini's Iqna`. Tabulating all of their differences here would unfortunately not be possible.


AHMAD ZAYNI DAHLAN
Shaykh Ahmad ibn Zayni Dahlan was the pre-eminent scholar and the Shafi'i mufti of Makkah in the second half of the 13th century. He was born in 1231AH. His teachers include Shaykh Uthman al-Dimyati and Shaykh `Abdullah Siraj. In his time the first printing press was established in Makkah, and a number of his works came to be printed. His wrote chiefly on fiqh and history. Aside from his writings his major contribution to the madhhab came in the form of his numerous students, many of whom rose to become excellent fuqaha. Amongst them are Muhammad Sa`id BaBusayl, `Alawi ibn Ahmad al-Saqqaf, Abu Bakr Shatta, `Umar BaJunayd, and Husayn ibn Muhammad al-Hibshi.

He died in Madinah in 1304AH.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Shaykh Taha Karaan
DARUL AL-ULOOM AL-ARABIYYA AL-ISLAAMIYYAH, Western Cape (SA)

[sunni sahib]

http://askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?a...0aca288dacda85

Thought Deobandis thought those who did Istigatha are Kaffir

[salman]

salamu `alaykum

I dont recall my mentioning Shaykh Taha Kareem and/or Mufti Ibrahim Desa`i "agreeing" with the issue at hand. All I stated was that all the `Ulema mentioned in the answer, who are [1] Imam Shihab Al Ramili [2] Imam Shams Al Ramili [3] Ibn Hajar Haytami and [4] Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan, are all agreed upon that Istigatha wal Isti`ana bil Ambiya wal Awliya wa Salihin is ja'iz.

Wasalam
Salman

[godilali]

Sorry, misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.