difference between Deobandi and salafi Aqaid

**sabm90** · 17-06-2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Salafi

walaikum assalam

Deobandis agree that Taqleed is haram in aqeedah (see Taqleed ki sharai haisiat by mufti Taqi uthmani and alqaulul mufeed fi athbatul taqleed by Maulana sarfaraz khan safdar rahimahulla). So no differences regarding taqleed in aqaid.

Do you understand the statement that you've quoted from Taqleed ki sharai haisiat?

**sabm90** · 17-06-2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Journo

Do you have scanned copies of these kitabs? If so could you email me them or alternatively have them on the thread for download?

Bawadir un nawadir is available online.

**sabm90** · 17-06-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Salafi

one more thing to add to the differences:

7)some of the deobandis believe in extreme sufi deviations like wahdatul wujood.

one correction Maulana Manzoor ahmed Nomani rahimahullah didn't write but compiled famous hadeeth work "Mu'ariful Hadeeth".

And what do u understand by the term wahdatul wujud?

**junfrared** · 17-06-2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by sabm90

Do you understand the statement that you've quoted from Taqleed ki sharai haisiat?

Abdullah, he is banned on this forum since 2007

Technically according to Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah there is two or three major divisions of aqaid:

1) Illahiyyat ('Aqaliyyat) (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes)
2) Nubuwwat ('Aqaliyyat or Share'yyat)
3) Sam'eyyat (Share'yyat) (Hashar Nashar, Qabar etc...)

So in Illahiyyat ('Aqaliyyat) not even taqleed is HARAM but also verses of Quran and Hadith are subordinate to their Aqal according to them. So source of knowledge in Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) is Aqal.

so if the verse of Quran which belongs to Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes), contradicts with THEIR "Aqal" then letting that verse as it is, is KUFUR (at this point they becoming Mumasilah) and that verse need to be relegated along with its meaning (what left behind is just combination of Alphabets, with NO meanings) (at this point they are becoming Mufawadh = Al-Mu'attalah) or need to be interpreted (whether Arabic has room for that or not) (at this point they are becoming Muawilah). Former one is safer (Aslam) and latter one is more intelligent ('Aalam) and more decisive (Ahkam).

So in Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) a/c to Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah one should rely on his own Aqal, Can't do Taqleed, otherwise he is kafir a/c to some of them.

Thats why they say Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) = 'Aqaliyyat.

Originally Posted by sabm90

And what do u understand by the term wahdatul wujud?

Please tell me do you understand the wahdatul wujud. In fact the wahdatul wujud is the heresy of infinite degree. But fortunately Our Ulama (Deobandi Ulama) doesn't consent it, except very few and I feel those who consent this were very confuse and didn't have sense what they were doing.

Whether you are Deviant Mufawadh = (Mumasilah + Al-Mu'attalah) or Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah = (Mumasilah + Muawilah) there is NO room for wahdatul wujud.

Therefore to affirm wahdatul wujud you need a new heretic sufi code.

**sabm90** · 19-06-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by junfrared

Abdullah, he is banned on this forum since 2007

Technically according to Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah there is two or three major divisions of aqaid:

1) Illahiyyat ('Aqaliyyat) (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes)
2) Nubuwwat ('Aqaliyyat or Share'yyat)
3) Sam'eyyat (Share'yyat) (Hashar Nashar, Qabar etc...)

So in Illahiyyat ('Aqaliyyat) not even taqleed is HARAM but also verses of Quran and Hadith are subordinate to their Aqal according to them. So source of knowledge in Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) is Aqal.

so if the verse of Quran which belongs to Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes), contradicts with THEIR "Aqal" then letting that verse as it is, is KUFUR (at this point they becoming Mumasilah) and that verse need to be relegated along with its meaning (what left behind is just combination of Alphabets, with NO meanings) (at this point they are becoming Mufawadh = Al-Mu'attalah) or need to be interpreted (whether Arabic has room for that or not) (at this point they are becoming Muawilah). Former one is safer (Aslam) and latter one is more intelligent ('Aalam) and more decisive (Ahkam).

So in Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) a/c to Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah one should rely on his own Aqal, Can't do Taqleed, otherwise he is kafir a/c to some of them.

Thats why they say Illahiyyat (Tawheed and His Names and Attributes) = 'Aqaliyyat.

Please tell me do you understand the wahdatul wujud. In fact the wahdatul wujud is the heresy of infinite degree. But fortunately Our Ulama (Deobandi Ulama) doesn't consent it, except very few and I feel those who consent this were very confuse and didn't have sense what they were doing.

Whether you are Deviant Mufawadh = (Mumasilah + Al-Mu'attalah) or Maturiddiyyah/Ashariyyah = (Mumasilah + Muawilah) there is NO room for wahdatul wujud.

Therefore to affirm wahdatul wujud you need a new heretic sufi code.

Oh My Bad

Whatever you quoted i've never come across any of such deobandi scholars who believes this to be true as far as Ilahiyat is concerned. Infact most of them never tell laymen about ashari maturidi issue. Infact Scholars very strictly prohibit using Aqal in deen.
This is the position of deo's which is explicitly written by Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani ru in alaqal wan naqal.

For Wahdatul wujud the word may be same but ideas differ. No one holds the aqidah of Unification of Allah with His creation. What you attribute to us, we dont belive that, and what we believe , you arent ready to listen to that.!

**junfrared** · 19-06-2012, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by sabm90

Oh My Bad

Whatever you quoted i've never come across any of such deobandi scholars who believes this to be true as far as Ilahiyat is concerned.

You have answered it yourself, the reason why you have never come across:

Infact most of them never tell laymen about ashari maturidi issue.

Infact Scholars very strictly prohibit using Aqal in deen.

Yes, but scholars who indulged in these philosophical issues aren't loyal to this principle.

This is the position of deo's which is explicitly written by Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani ru in alaqal wan naqal.

This is all the issue of loyalty to their principles, some people are loyal to their principles so they do what their principles instructs them, and on other hand some are partially loyal their principles, violates their own principles when come to their beloved ones.

In fact this Maturidi/Ashari theory (and I can give references if you need), whether we accept it or not.Our some scholars believe in it with amalgam of Sufi theories (later Sufis, NOT early). However the Deobandi Scholars who are "Rasikh Fi Ilm" don't like and don't affirm these theories, and believe in clear Athari Creed.

For Wahdatul wujud the word may be same but ideas differ.

Everything is well written, therefore we know every idea. And whatsoever definition you pick, it will not in accordance with the creedal methodology of Islam (i.e. creedal methodology of Prophet s.a.w and his companions r.a.). And I have said some people aren't loyal to their principles when it comes to their beloved ones, therefore they affirm the Wahdatul wujud because their Sheikh have affirmed it, nonetheless, they know, it is in clear violation of their principles.

No one holds the aqidah of Unification of Allah with His creation.

It indicates you don't understand this heretic theory. There are two types of Wahdatul wujudis:

One who EXPLICITLY AFFIRM the Creed of Unification, i.e. there is on Creator nor creation, all is one that is Allah. (e.g. Ibne Arabi Zindeeq, Extreme Sufi AbdulKarim Jelly)

One who implicitly believe in above theory, they affirm some postulates (which aren't explicitly unify the Creator and creation), but INEVITABLE COROLLARY those postulates is unification.

Therefore I said "fortunately Our Ulama (Deobandi Ulama) doesn't consent it, except very few and I feel those who consent this were very confuse and didn't have sense what they were doing."

What you attribute to us, we dont belive that,

First I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about those scholars who affirm the Wahdatul wujud, and corollary of their affirmation is unification, whether they understand it or not.

and what we believe , you arent ready to listen to that.!

Don't tell me what Deodandis believes in, I'm also Deobandi therefore I know very much in which you believe.

**Sulaiman84** · 19-06-2012, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by junfrared

Therefore I said "fortunately Our Ulama (Deobandi Ulama) doesn't consent it, except very few and I feel those who consent this were very confuse and didn't have sense what they were doing."

First I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about those scholars who affirm the Wahdatul wujud, and corollary of their affirmation is unification, whether they understand it or not.