What are "Asharite" and "Maturidi"

[amina9183]

I realize this must sound like a stupid question, but people keep talking about "Maturidi" and "Asharite" on here and I have no idea what or who either of those are..? I've never heard those words before in my life...

Can someone please explain?

[Saad]

From the time the Ulama delved into the finer details of Kalaam, and
split hairs of issues of Aqaaid, many groups arose. From the Ahlus sunnah
wal Jama`, two scholars presented the view of Haqq in these issues. There
were Imaam Abul Hasan al-Ashaari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Maturidi.
In brief, as far as these complext and intricate debates on Kalaam is
concerned, the view of the Ahlus Sunnah is confined to the schools of these
two scholars. All other schools of thought are on Baatil. It does not mean
that all those that preceded these two schools were not Muslim, for in the
first place, these intricate issues were never raised in the former times.
Furthermore, a person can be a complete and perfect Mu'min without getting
involved in these complex matters. Such was the position of the Sahaaba and
most of the Taabi'een. However, should one wish to enter the arena of these
philosophical issues, then one has to confine oneself to one of these two
schools, for all the other schools who have taken up a standpoint as far as
these issues are concerned are on Baatil. The Haqq in this arena is confined
to the two schools.

Both were adherents of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa`. There
is no real difference in Aqeedah between the two. The differences are
only in the different use of words and ways of interpretation.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[Ali al-Hanafi]

A.) The Maturidis and the Ash'aris are from the Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa. Hereunder is a brief explanation on their beliefs regarding the Sifat of Allah.
Basically, the Ulama of Aqaaid (beliefs) are of two categories, a) The Salaf (former Ulama), b) Mutakallimeen (Ulama of Aqeedah)
Imam al-Nawawiy (RA) mentions in his commentary of Sahih Muslim, 'There are two famous Madhabs with regards to the beliefs of the Sifaat of Allah:

1) The Madhab of majority of the Salaf and a few Mutakallimeen is to believe in the reality of the Sifaat of Allah in accordance to whatever is appropriate for Allah. The apparent known meanings of those Sifaat are not meant. No Ta'weel (interpretation) should be made in the matter.

2) The Madhab of most of the Mutakallimeen and a few of the Salaf like Imaam al-Nawawiy and Imaam al-Awzaa'ee is that Ta'weel will be made.
Both these Madhabs are unanimously accepted.
Actually, our Aqeeda is in accordance with the first Madhab. The second Madhab came about because there were many misled groups in the latter times, like al-Mujassamah who believe that Allah has the same qualities as human beings. The Mutakallimeen had to refute these misled groups. To do so they made Ta'weelaat (interpretations) by stating that these verse are not in their literal sense, but indicate Power, Majesty, etc. In making Ta'weel, they did not intend to oppose the Salaf, but to oppose the misled groups. The Mutakallimeen have stated that if they were in the era of the Salaf, they would not have made any Ta'weel in the verse of Sifaat.
As for Imaam al-Maturidee (who the Hanafis generally follow in beliefs) and Imaam al-Awzaa'ee (who the Shaafi'ee generally follow in belief), they both believe in not making Ta'weel. (see Muqaddamah of Kitaab al-Tawhid of Imaam al-Maturide by Shaykh Fathullah Khaleef pgs.10-11). This is basically the view of the Ahlus sunnah Wal Jamaa...

...The scholars of the Maturidee and Ash'ari schools of thought who came after the founders of these schools adopted the view of making Ta'weel to combat the deviated sects of their respective eras. But, these scholars knew the limits of making Ta'weel.
We advise that we maintain the belief of the Salaf, i.e. we don't make Ta'weel because:
1) This was the belief of Imaam al-Maturidee (and we are Maturidees)
2) The latter Ulama only made Ta'weel because of Dhuroorah (i.e. necessity in combating the deviated sects).
3) These Ulama who made Ta'weel, they knew the limits of Ta'weel and we sometimes might exceed the bounds which will lead us to Kufr.
We should also be aware that not all the beliefs of ibn Taymiyah are in accordance with the Ahlus-Sunnah. We should remain cautious.
Shaykh Taqi-u-ddin Ahmad ibn Taymiyah was a prominent Aalim (scholar) of Deen. Shaykh Taqi-u-ddin had his independent views on many matters based on his vast knowledge and research. It is incorrect for non-scholars and non-academics to pass a judgment especially on such learned people. They should fear Allah and abstain from engaging themselves in such discussions. Differences of opinion is a salient feature among the Ulama-e-Haqq (true scholars). And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

[amina9183]

I am still unbelievably confused though...

Insha Allah I guess I'll just try and read more about it. I recall the first brother mentioning it is possible to be a perfect mu'min without knowing anything about this subject, so my question is, is this just one of those things that we can put in the hands of a specific group of scholars and let it be? It seems a little...in depth and like it would take a great amount of time before i could even begin to grasp the concept of these ideas. I don't really have time...not to mention, my brain is fully occupied at the moment. I do remember, however, the first time I heard the word "madhab" and I was equally as confused by it. Nobody had ever used that word before in my house....all I had ever heard was there are sunnis and there are shiahs. So, I had to learn about madhabs on my own, and whether or not I had the time for it, it was neccessary. Is understanding this neccessary as well? Or can it sit on the backburner while I focus on the things I am already busy with? Basically..I am asking: Do I need to know this right now? Is this something they go over in Madrassahs? Or is this something specific to a certain group of scholars?

[jinnzaman]

Basically, as the Muslim polities expanded, they encountered new civilizations and paradigms for thinking, such as the Hellenistic traditions, not to mention Buddhism and Hinduism.

The Muslims of that era began engaging in a dialogue with people from these different traditions. One of the arguments made by Christians was the just like the Qur'an was the Eternal Word of God even though it exists in time and is it a limited document, Jesus was the Eternal Word of God and part of his divine essence even though he was a man.

This argument by the Christians lead to different methodological responses by the Muslims. Some of the Muslims began using philosophical reasoning to refute the Greco-Roman traditions, but ended up utilising this reasoning and unfortunately began altering Islamic beliefs in order to conform to their understanding of logic. This group was known as the Mu'tazilah.

A group of traditionalist scholars, spearheaded by the Hanbalis, opposed the use of this reasoning, referred to as Kalam.

These different groups began persecuting one another.

After a while, a group of "traditional scholars" in different areas of the world began utilising kalam in order to refute certain deviant beliefs of the Mu'tazilah. One theological school was called the Ashari school after its founder, Imam Ashari who was himself a former-Mutazili and another theological school was Imam Maturidi. Both of these scholars, independent of one another, founded schools that used rational arguments to defend the beliefs of Ahl us Sunnah Waal Jam'ah. Of course, some of the traditionalist, most of them being Hanbali, continued their opposition to the use of Kalam and these schools.

As time passed, the Ashari and Maturidi schools gained dominance amongst Ahl us Sunnah Wa'al Jam'ah whereas the Mu'tazilah school disappeared (although it continued to exist among the Shi'is). It wasn't until the neo-Hanbali revivalist movement known as Wahhabism-Salafism of the 18th century that the attacks on Asharis and Maturidis were renewed.

Here's a document regarding the history of these various groups:
http://z14.invisionfree.com/Shield_o...?showtopic=182

Here's some more information about the Asharis/Maturidis
http://z14.invisionfree.com/Shield_o...hp?showforum=8

Its not important to know the arguments of the Asharis and Maturidis. What is important to know is that the 'Ulema have recognized that these two schools are part of Ahl us Sunnah Waal Jam'ah.

[amina9183]

makes sense now alhamdulillah

[Poisonous Darts]

http://www.livingislam.org/k/ki_e.html

Shaykh Nuh Article on Aqidah, Shaykh Nuh also gives more detailed explanation of the Ashari school in the first 6/7 recordings of his Virginia Suhba which i believe can be downloaded at VASuhba.com