Tawassul Through the Dead Discussion Thread (and for links to other threads)...

[YousefAbusSafar]

As salamu 'alaykum,
This thread is for a discussion on tawassul through the dead, from the prophet (s.a.w.s.) and others from the ambiya' and awliya'.

I'm am very convinced about this topic from all the Quranic aayah pertaining to making du'a' to Allah alone and the hadith "ad Du'a' huwal 'ibadah" and "ad Du'aa' huwa mukh al 'ibadah" and the countless ayah pertaining to it, but I want to hear both sides of the story on this topic as well in a consise general manner with their views and their evidences so I can make sure I haven't been biased in my approach.

I'd also like to see if some distinguish between tawassul with an nabi and tawassul with other than him from the anbiya' and awliya'.

Same thing, only post url's and links if they are not to much to digest and fall under the abovementioned guidelines (consise, general explanations of each side with their evidences without arguing and going off on a tangent etc.).

Please, knowledgable salafi's and traditional sunni's particapate here.

Allah yajzeekumul khair.

[Yahya]

1. No one denied at-tawassul before Ibn Taymiyyah
Imam as-Subki wrote in his book, Shifaa' is-saqaami fee ziyaarati khayr il-'anaam, what means "and no one from the salaf (Muslim from the 1st 3 hijri centuries) nor from the khalaf (those who came after the 1st 3 hijri centuries) preceded ibn Taymiyyah in denying at-tawassul; rather, he has made a statement that no knowledgable person has EVER said before him."

2. Ibn Taymiyyah was misguided
Ibn Hajar al-Haytami said in Hashiyat ubn Hajar 3ala sharh il-'eedaaH, what means, "and be not misguided by the denying that ibn Taymiyyah made regarding the sunnah of visiting Him (ie. the grave of the Prophet ), truly he was a slave (ibn Taymiyyah) whom Allah misguided, as al-3izz bin Jamaa3ah said, and as at-Taqi as-Subki mentioned at length in refuting him in an independent book (ie. a book whose sole purpose was to refute ibn Taymiyyah).

3. at-Tawassul by the Prophet is allowed during His life and after His death.
at-Tabarani mentions in al-Mu'jam al-Kabeer and also in al-Mu'jam as-Sagheer the Hadith of the blind man. In this Hadith Uthman bin Hunayf (Radiyallah anhu) mentions that a man had a need to see Uthman bin Affan (who was caliph at the time), but that Uthman would not look in his direction nor look into his affair. When this man met Uthman bin Hunayf, he explained the situation to him. So Uthman bin Hunayf told him,

"Go to the WuDu area, make wuDu, then pray 2 rak'ahs, then say 'O Allah, I ask you, and I turn to you by your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy, O Muhammad, I turn to my Lord through you regarding my affair, that it be decreed for me (ie. settled)' then go and I will go with you."

So the man did what Uthman bin Hunayf said, then went to Uthman bin Affan's door, and the doorman took him by the hand and at sat him down with Uthman bin Affan (the caliph), who asked "what is your affair?" So the man mentioned his need, and Uthman ordered it handled then said, "I did not remember your affair until this very hour." Then the man left and said to Uthman bin Hunayf, "May Allah reward you with what's good. He didn't look into my affair nor turn in my direction until you spoke to him about me." Then Uthman bin Hunayf said,

"I swear by Allah, I did not speak to him, but I testify that a harmed man came to the Messenger of Allah and complained of the hardship regarding his loss of sight. And [Muhammad ] said, 'If you wish, be patient, or if you wish I will make du'a for you.' The man said, 'O Messenger of Allah, my loss of sight is a hardship upon me since I have no one to lead me. So [Muhammad ] said to him, "Go to the WuDu area and make WuDu, and pray 2 rak'ahs then say, 'O Allah, I ask you...' (until the end of the du'a)." And Uthman bin Hunayf said, "So the man did what He said, and I swear by Allah, we had not yet separated nor had we been sitting long when the man entered and he could see as if he had never been harmed."

And at-Tabarani said the Hadith is Saheeh. This Hadith has in it several proofs. First, that we may make at-tawassul during the Prophet's lifetime (the blind man). Second, that we may do so after His death (the man who needed to see Uthman the caliph). Third, that the Companions practiced at-tawassul. Fourth, even during the Prophet's lifetime , it was not a condition that the Prophet be present when you call to Him (the blind man was at the wudu area when he said "O Muhammad!"). As opposed to ibn Taymiyyah's opinion that at-tawassul was only permitted during His lifetime and while He was present.

4. at-Tawassul by pious Muslims is also permitted
Alaa' ad-deen al-Mardaawi, one of the most famous Hanbali scholars said in his book, al-Insaaf, what means, "and it is permissible to make at-tawassul by the and pious person according to the Saheeh position of the school. And it is said to be recommended (mustaHabb)."

[Habib1968]

Salam alaikoum ;

you can find here a good link :


http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...ID=141&CATE=24


as well as a good blog on this issue :


http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogspot.com/



Salam alaikoum

[Musleemah]

1. No one denied at-tawassul before Ibn Taymiyyah
Imam as-Subki wrote in his book, Shifaa' is-saqaami fee ziyaarati khayr il-'anaam, what means "and no one from the salaf (Muslim from the 1st 3 hijri centuries) nor from the khalaf (those who came after the 1st 3 hijri centuries) preceded ibn Taymiyyah in denying at-tawassul; rather, he has made a statement that no knowledgable person has EVER said before him."

can u show me where the Sahaba or early Salaf said that tawassul by asking the dead for duaa is permissable?

2. Ibn Taymiyyah was misguided
Ibn Hajar al-Haytami said in Hashiyat ubn Hajar 3ala sharh il-'eedaaH, what means, "and be not misguided by the denying that ibn Taymiyyah made regarding the sunnah of visiting Him (ie. the grave of the Prophet ), truly he was a slave (ibn Taymiyyah) whom Allah misguided, as al-3izz bin Jamaa3ah said, and as at-Taqi as-Subki mentioned at length in refuting him in an independent book (ie. a book whose sole purpose was to refute ibn Taymiyyah).

The topic is about tawassul not traveling specifically to visit the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam's grave.

4. at-Tawassul by pious Muslims is also permitted
Alaa' ad-deen al-Mardaawi, one of the most famous Hanbali scholars said in his book, al-Insaaf, what means, "and it is permissible to make at-tawassul by the and pious person according to the Saheeh position of the school. And it is said to be recommended (mustaHabb)."

this could mean different kinds of tawassul, and it seems to me he meant tawassul by their duaa while alive because he mentioned it in the lessons benefited in the chapter of "salat al-istisqa' الإستسقاء ", and the hadith about Umar radiyallahu anhu making tawassul by the duaa of al-Abbas radiyallahu anhu in salat al-istisqa' is well known.

unless u have evidance he meant "tawassul by the pious person" meaning his duaa after his death.

[Isaac1]

The following two proofs illustrate to us the practise of the Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhum] as well.

5. Sayyiduna Maalik al-Daar, the treasurer of food during the time of Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu], reports that once the people had been experiencing a drought in the era of Sayyiduna Umar [radhiallaahu anhu], a man went to the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and said, 'O Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], ask for rain on behalf of your Ummah, for verily, they are being destroyed.' Thereafter this person was instructed in a dream to go to Sayyiduna Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] and tell him that, 'the rains will soon come and say to him, Be intelligent', When Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] was informed of this, he began to cry and he said, 'O My Lord, I will only leave out what I am unable to do.' (Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47). Hafiz ibn Katheer [ra] has stated that the chain of narrators is 'good and strong' (Musnadul Faarooq vol.1 pg.223). Hafiz ibn Hajar has also indicated to its authenticity in Fathul Bari.

6. Abul-Jawzaa - Aws ibn Abdullah [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that once, the people of Madinah were experiencing a severe drought. They complained to Sayyidatuna Aaisha [radhiallahu anha]. She advised them that they should make a hole in the tomb of the roof of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] so that the grave is exposed to the skies. He says, 'When they made a hole, heavy rains came down and crops also began to grow.' (Sunan Darimi vol.1 pg.56)

7. Imaam Haakim and others have narrated on the authority of Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu] that Rasulullah [Sallallahu alayhi wasallam] said, 'When Adam [alayhis salaam] ate from the forbidden tree, he said, 'O My Lord, I ask you through the right of Muhammad [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] that you forgive me.' The words used were, 'Bi haqqi Muhammad' Allah Ta'ala accepted Aadam's [alayhis salaam] repentance. (al-Mustadrak vol.2 pg.615; Dalaailun-Nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.5 pg.489; al-Mu'jamus saghir of Imaam Tabrani vol.2 pg.82)

The status of this narration has been extensively disputed by the various Muhadditheen. Some have accepted it to be authentic and others rejected it. However, there is another narration that supports this narration recorded by Imaam Abul-Hasan ibn Bishraan [ra] on the authority of Sayyidatuna Maysarah [radhiallaahu anha]. The chain of narrators for this Hadith is totally different from the previous one. And in fact, Hafiz ibn Hajar [ra] has stated concerning a completely different narration which has the very same chain of narrators, that this chain of narrators is strong. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen pgs.138-139; al-Ahaadeethul Muntaqaa pg.14, both of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumarie). These narrations have all proven beyond a shadow of doubt that this form of Tawassul is permissible and was widely practised as well.

Hereunder follows a list of some of the many illustrious Ulama of the past who had practised upon Tawassul through the rank of the pious, deceased or alive:

1. Imaam Hasan ibn Ibrahim al-Hallal [ra] has stated that whenever he had any urgent need, he would go to the grave of Imaam Moosa ibn Ja'far [ra] and make Tawassul through him. Allah Ta'ala would fulfil his need. (refer Taarikh Baghdaad)

2. Imaam Shaafi'ee [ra] would make Tawassul at the grave of Imaam Abu Hanifa [ra]. (Taarikh Baghdaad). Allaamah al-Kawthari has classified this incident as authentic. (Maqaalaatul Kawthari pg.381)

3. Allaamah Taajuddeen al-Subki [ra] has mentioned that the people would go to the grave of Imaam ibn Foorak(ra), the teacher of Imaam Bayhaqi [ra] and make Du'aa and their Du'aas would get accepted.

4. Hafiz Al-Zarkashi [ra] has made Tawassul in the introduction to his commentary to Sahih al-Bukhari entitled, 'al-Tanqeeh'.

5. Hafiz Taqi-u-ddin al-Subki [ra], the father of Taajuddin al-Subki [ra], has approved of this firm of Tawassul and he has written a detailed treatise on this topic. (See his book: Shifaa-u-Siqaam pgs.293-318)

6. Allamah Nawawi [ra] has mentioned that from among the etiquettes of visiting the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] one should make Tawassul through Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] to Allah Ta'ala to accept his Du'aas. Thereafter, Allamah Nawawi states, '…and one of the best things that one should do is what has been related by Allaamah al-Mawardi [ra], al-Qaadhi Abu Teeb [ra] and all our Ulama and they have all regarded it as commendable, and that is the incident of Imaam al-Utabi [ra] that he said, 'I was once seated by the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], when a Bedouin came and said, 'Peace be upon you, oh, Messenger of Allah. O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Almighty Allah say in the Qur'aan "And if they, when they had been unjust to themselves, had come to you (Muhammad Sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and begged Allah's forgiveness and the messenger had begged forgiveness for them, indeed they would have found Allah All-Forgiving. Most merciful.(Al-Nisaa:64) hence, I have come to you in a state that I seek forgiveness of my sins by seeking your intercession by my Lord', thereafter he recited a few couplets and departed. Imaam al-Utabi [ra] states, 'I then fell asleep and I saw Rasulullah [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] instructing me by the words, 'O Utabi, go to that Bedouin and give him the glad tidings that Almighty Allah has forgiven him.' (Refer al-Majmoo vol.8 pg.456 - Cairo and Manaasikul-Imaam-Al-Nawawi pg.498-499 Maktabah Salafia). This incident has been related by many Ulama in their respective compilations. Some of them are: Haafiz Ibn-Katheer in his Tafseer, Allamah Abu-Muhammad ibn Qudaamah in Al-Mughni vol.3 pg.556, Imaam Abul-Faraj in Al-Sharhul-Kabeervol.3 pg.495, etc.)

7. Imaam Ahmad bin Hambal(RA) has also encouraged making Tawassul through Rasulullah [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] in ones duas. (Fataawa ibn Taimiyyah vol.1 pg.140, Also see Mafaaheem pg.137)

8. Haafiz Shamsud-Deen Al-Sakhawi (RA), the grand student of Haafiz ibn Hajr Al-Asqalaani(RA) made Tawassul on many occasions through Rasulullah [Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam] in his books, see for example Al-Tuhfatul-Lateefah vol.1 pg.3, 17; al-Ibtihaaj bi azkaaril musaafiril haaj

9. Allamah Muhammad ibn-ul-Jazri(RA) the famous Muhaddith and Master of Qira'aat has mentioned that from amongst the Aadaab etiquettes of dua is that one makes Tawassul with the Ambiyaa and the pious ones.(Al-Hisnul Haseen)

10. Imaam Al-Shawkaani Al-Salafi(RA) has also permitted Tawassul. (Tuhfatu-Zaakireen pg.50)

Lastly, we would like to draw your attention to the fact that the above permissibility is in regard to one who asks Allah Ta'ala for a particular need and in doing so, he uses some honourable personality as his Waseela (means) without thinking or believing that the person is being supplicated to or that he will fulfil his need. Yes, if one asks directly from the deceased and he believes that the Anbiyaa [alayhimus salaam] and the pious [rahimahumullah] independently possess the power to provide, then this would be Shirk (polytheism) because he is now ascribing partners to Allah in the quality of 'Providing'.

[Yahya]

can u show me where the Sahaba or early Salaf said that tawassul by asking the dead for duaa is permissable?

You do not ask the dead to make du'a for you. You make du'a to Allah, and you mention the name of a pious person (like a Prophet or a wali). Perhaps, by invoking the name of person of high status, the du'a will be answered.

And I showed you, in #3 above, where one of the Companions ordered someone else to make at-tawassul by the Prophet. And this happened during the reign of Uthman bin Affan (ie. it was after the Prophet had died) . I also showed you where a Hanbali scholar specifically said that it is permissible even by a pious person who is not a prophet, and that some say it recommended.

It is also narrated by al-Mirwadhi (a student of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal) that Imam Ahmad said it is sunnah to make at-tawassul by the Prophet in the du'a of al-istisqaa' (the du'a for rain). Imam Ahmad was from as-salaf.

Also it is known that Imam ash-Shafi'i used to go to the grave of Abu Haneefah and make du'a there. Imam ash-Shafi'i was from as-salaf.

The topic is about tawassul not traveling specifically to visit the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam's grave.

That is true. But I wanted to mention that Ibn Taymiyyah is a very controversial figure whom many scholars have called misguided, for many reasons. It doesn't make sense to stubbornly hold on to an opinion of his when no one before him said such things.

this could mean different kinds of tawassul, and it seems to me he meant tawassul by their duaa while alive ... unless u have evidance he meant "tawassul by the pious person" meaning his duaa after his death.

I have already given you the Hadith of the blind man, in which you see the Companions practicing at-tawassul by the Prophet both DURING and AFTER His lifetime. So we have established that at-tawassul can be after the death of the person.

The question is, do YOU have any evidence that this only applies to the Prophets and not to a wali? Because it appears that the nature of tawassul is that it is not limited to one's lifetime.

[Musleemah]

I thought we were discussing tawasul by asking the dead to make duaa for us, not tawassul by the dhat and jah of the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, or am I wrong?

also, the evidances that are used are for tawassul by asking the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to make duaa not for askign the awliya' after their death, which I havent' seen any evidance for it yet.

[Yahya]

Is there anyone who asks a wali to make du'a for them while in the grave?? I've never heard of anyone doing this.

Perhaps they are making dua that the dead wali will intercede for them on the day of Judgment. Allahu 'Alam.

[Musleemah]

You do not ask the dead to make du'a for you. You make du'a to Allah, and you mention the name of a pious person (like a Prophet or a wali). Perhaps, by invoking the name of person of high status, the du'a will be answered.

from my discussions on this forum I have understood that it is tawassul that is asking the dead to ask Allah for u, using them as intermediators.
like saying
"oh sidi fulan or ya rasul Allah ask Allah to grant me ... or ask Allah to forgive my sins "
not just mentioning their name but asking them to make duaa to Allah for them.

It is also narrated by al-Mirwadhi (a student of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal) that Imam Ahmad said it is sunnah to make at-tawassul by the Prophet in the du'a of al-istisqaa' (the du'a for rain). Imam Ahmad was from as-salaf.

tawassul by asking him to make duaa, or tawasul by his dhat and jah ??

Also it is known that Imam ash-Shafi'i used to go to the grave of Abu Haneefah and make du'a there. Imam ash-Shafi'i was from as-salaf.

did he make dua himself directly to Allah with no mention of the name of anyone or with the mention of the name of someone? or by asking Imam Abu Hanifa rahimahu Allah to ask Allah for him?

also, the authenticity of the incident please? because if I rmember correctly I read it is a false story.

That is true. But I wanted to mention that Ibn Taymiyyah is a very controversial figure whom many scholars have called misguided, for many reasons. It doesn't make sense to stubbornly hold on to an opinion of his when no one before him said such things.

a big number of scholars praised shaikh al-islam ibn Taimaiyyah rahimahu Allah, and the ones who called him misguided did that because they differed with him in aqeedah and most were sufis who hated him because he was against what they were preaching and practicing.
Imam Ibn Hajar al Asqalani rahimahu Allah himself praised shaikh al-Islam rahimahu Allah even though he differed with him on a few issues.
also many other scholars.
anyways, the topic isn't about him, it is about tawassul, so let us stay on the topic so it won't get so long and off of the topic.

The question is, do YOU have any evidence that this only applies to the Prophets and not to a wali? Because it appears that the nature of tawassul is that it is not limited to one's lifetime.

I haven't seen evidance that it is applied also to awliya', for in issues of ibadah one must have evdiance FOR the act of worship for it to be valid, not against it.
while in worldly things (mubahat) u have to have evidance against it for it to be impermissable.

[Musleemah]

Is there anyone who asks a wali to make du'a for them while in the grave?? I've never heard of anyone doing this.

Perhaps they are making dua that the dead wali will intercede for them on the day of Judgment. Allahu 'Alam.

insha Allah other members will answer u on this.