I am the truth

[umm_madina]

Assalamualikum,

Why did the sufi Mansur al-Hallaj proclaim this. It sounds like shirk to me, or reminds me of Pharaoh, saying he is the Lord most high.....

wa'salam

[Saad]

Mawlana Thanwi on Mansoor Al hallaj


He did not say a'nal haqq of his own accord. Rather his state was akin to that of the tree that spoke in the time of Moses(alayhi salaam)
Innee Ana'Allahu Rabbul Aalamin

Indeed I am Allah..The Lord of the Worlds
And in fact that the voice was emerging from the tree.

the nass clearly states

So when he reached IT (the fire), he was called from the right side of the valley, in the blessed place FROM the tree: "O Musa (Moses)! Verily! I am Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!" S. 28:29-30 Hilali-Khan

So did the tree speak itself and say Inee an'Allah

Absolutely not-otherwise we would be forced to admit that the tree was Allah . and we cannot say that the voice emerged not from the tree but was the voice of God-As Allah is free from having a voice.
And yet Musa(alayhi salam) heard a voice which was linked to a specific time and place.
Allah(swt) restricted it to the waadi ayman-and the blessed tree in the text. were is the voice of God such qayd would not have been placed on it.

So we are forced to accept that it was the voice of the tree and came from the tree itself.But it was inspired by Allah(swt) and did not speak of its own accord.

Just as in the quran Allah(swtP) instructs his beloved- that Fa idhaa qa'ranahu Fattabi quraana
wHEN we recite the Quran-follow its recitation.

And indeed the Messenger(saw) heard a voice-but Allah is free of having a voice.-so how to understand qa'rana?
Here the recitation of jibreel has been called the qa'rat- e-haq. As he was reciting by the command of Al-Haq.
Similarly the words of the tree are called the words of Al-Haq as it too spoke the permission of Al-haq.

we should intrepret the words of mansoor as the words of God in this sense and he was in an overpowering state -and he became mutakallim by the command of Al-haq.he did not say what he said of his own accord.

Thanks to bro. Tazkiyya

[umm_madina]

Assalamualikum,

You start with Mawlana Thanwi on Mansoor Al hallaj and end with bro. Tazkiyya?? lol.

Anyone else has another explanation?

Or can further clarify this one....It's still a bit confusing.

we should intrepret the words of mansoor as the words of God in this sense and he was in an overpowering state -and he became mutakallim by the command of Al-haq.he did not say what he said of his own accord

What is mutakallim?

So when he reached IT (the fire), he was called from the right side of the valley, in the blessed place FROM the tree: "O Musa (Moses)! Verily! I am Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!" S. 28:29-30 Hilali-Khan

Allah (swt) inspired the tree to say this...but what I am getting at is Prophet Muhammad (saw) is the most perfect model, is it recorded that he (saw) ever stated this as well?


Allah has no boundary. He has no opposite. He has no rival. And He has no equal.


If someone believes Al-Hallaj to be Al-Haq it seems to be conflicting with believing in Tawheed. (as far as I understand)

Surah Ikhlas (112) states: "Say, He is Allah the One; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is NONE like unto Him"


And I will blame myself and say, I don't have the ability to understand at this point. How can a created thing be (or claim to be) the same as the creator??? Why did Allah make the tree say this??

wa'salam

[Saad]

You start with Mawlana Thanwi on Mansoor Al hallaj and end with bro. Tazkiyya?? lol.

L0L, it was originally posted by that brother.

[umm_madina]

for trying all the same.

I'll probably need to sit with or seek the explanation of a pious scholar to clarify. Unless, someone here is able to, I would really appreciate your help.

wa'salam

[Saad]

Just like when you really love somebody, and they utter some words, and you start to repeat those words, people might think those are your words. Same way Mansoor Al hallaj heard a voice from Allah *a'nal haqq* and he started to repeat those words.

hats how it was explained by Mujaddad Alf-e-Sani r.h , (its hard to translate the exact words in English).

If you understand Urdu, I can post few lectures that will clear your doubts on this matter. InshAllah.

[umm_madina]

The big concern for me is why, our prophet (saw) did'nt (?) also speak those words.

AND

He (saw) is our role model and the perfect example of man.

[salman]

The big concern for me is why, our prophet (saw) did'nt (?) also speak those words.

AND

He (saw) is our role model and the perfect example of man.

salamu `alaykum

Sayyidina Mansur was deficient and overcome by the experience and thus could not control it.

The Prophet (Allah bless him) was the perfected human - in every unimaginable way.

There is no comparison between the two.

[umm_madina]

salamu `alaykum

Sayyidina Mansur was deficient and overcome by the experience and thus could not control it.

The Prophet (Allah bless him) was the perfected human - in every unimaginable way.

There is no comparison between the two.

wa'alikumussalam wr wb,


This I understand clearly. Thank you brother... And I remember Allah says to prophet Muhammad (saw) in the Quran, " (Say) If you love Allah, then follow me (prophet Muhammad (saw)...." And "Hold fast, All together by the rope which Allah stretches out for you, and be not divided among yourselves."

wa'salam

P.S> Once, I was in (visiting) this Massjid and the brother/Imam said, Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani is the spiritual twin of prophet Muhammad (saw). I told one of my teachers and he said the same....there is no comparison between the two.

[AbuHafiza]

Assalamualikum,

Allah (swt) inspired the tree to say this...but what I am getting at is Prophet Muhammad (saw) is the most perfect model, is it recorded that he (saw) ever stated this as well?


Allah has no boundary. He has no opposite. He has no rival. And He has no equal.


If someone believes Al-Hallaj to be Al-Haq it seems to be conflicting with believing in Tawheed. (as far as I understand)

Surah Ikhlas (112) states: "Say, He is Allah the One; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is NONE like unto Him"


And I will blame myself and say, I don't have the ability to understand at this point. How can a created thing be (or claim to be) the same as the creator??? Why did Allah make the tree say this??

wa'salam

I tried to find the good explanation given to similar question that I read long time ago, but I couldnt. From what I can recall, long time ago I read the mubahasa between imam Nawawi and some other scholar where imam was asked, "Why Bistami said "Maa fi jubba illallah" and Rasululloh (SAWS) never claimed that, on contrary he was fearful of ghadhab of Allah?" where Imam Nawawi replied that Rasulullah (SAWS) was gaining 70(?) darajaat (levels) each day. Bayazid on contrary only managed to gain one of those levels and couldnt bear the pressure as Allah said in the holy Qur'an:



لَوْ أَنزَلْنَا هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ عَلَى جَبَلٍ لَّرَأَيْتَهُ خَاشِعاً مُّتَصَدِّعاً مِّنْ خَشْيَةِ اللَّهِ وَتِلْكَ الْأَمْثَالُ نَضْرِبُهَا لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ
(59:21)

(If we revealed this Quran to a mountain, you would see it trembling, crumbling, out of reverence for GOD. We cite these examples for the people, that they may reflect. )

So prophet (SAW) was able to bear what others, even mountains wouldnt be able to bear. Thus the stage of drunkenness of people like Bayazid or Mansur are understood in the context that they did not have control over their words or actions, wallahu a'lam.