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Thread: Who invented the Science of Hadith, shia's or sunni's?

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    Default Who invented the Science of Hadith, shia's or sunni's?

    Assalamu alaykum

    Does anyone know which muslims developed the science of hadith, was it the shia's or sunni's(ahle sunna wal jama)?.

    If both sects developed the science of hadith jointly then who contributed the most to its development, was it the shia or sunni's?.

    I am asking these questions because a shia website i went to is giving the impression that they were the pioneers of this great science. The website is called "www.*************" and you can read what they say at this link, inshallah:

    http://www.*************/al-tawhid/hadith-science/

    Here's a little of what the shia website says: "As to who were pioneers in this field, it must be admitted that the Shi`ah had taken a lead in this field. The first writer to compile a book on this subject was Abu Muhammad `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah ibn Hayyan al-Kanani (died 219/834).[10] But according to Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his Kitab al-'awa'il, the first writer on `ilm al-rijal was Shu`bah (died 260/87374).[11] However, it is clear that the statement of Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti does not correspond with historical fact, for `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah died forty years before Shu`bah. ".

    Please answer my questions or just give me your opinions.


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    Sorry about the website name and link, they keep showing up as asterixes. Sorry.


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    Assalamualikum brother,

    I don't know the answer to your question.

    Maybe you should put the question in the indepth section of the forum? Those brothers there seem very knowledgeable, I think they'll probably tear this thread apart with their knowledge..lol.

    wa'salam
    "The Lord and Cherisher of the worlds, Who created me, and it is He Who guides me" - Ash-shu'araa: 77-78


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    assalamo alaikum

    early shi'a, mostly, were a political group. They are the first who fabricated ahadeeth, unlike khawarij the other extreme.

    difference between the tahdeeth of ahle sunnah and rawafidh is that we seek the knowledge ((jirah and ta'deel) of narrator upto sahaba ra. sahaba ra were all adil and thiqqah. they (rawafidh) seek the knowledge of narrator upto their imams, 4th, 5th, 6th etc.

    ibn ‘abbas ra said that we started to take ahadeeth from the people we knew (only) after the ppl began to go for every ease and difficulty (Saheeh muslim). So the pioneers of this noble science is sahaba not rawafidh, their enemies.

    The science was their in the first century of islam. Like one will find that ibn shahab azZuhree rahimahullah was one of the mudalliseen. He died in 124 h. tadlees (which is one of the somewhat advanced usool) and its tabqaat can be decided by the tarajim of the narrators and it is an indication that the usool of hadeeth were already there in the 2nd generation of islam (ahle sunnah), well developed. I don’t know the first written work by ahle sunnah but the science there. It might not be in the written form like most classical works of hadeeth were written in the early 3rd century hijri.

    the muqaddimah (preface) of sahih muslim ( d.261 h) is a very good source to know about the science of hadeeth and its evolution. unfortunately many english translations do not include it.

    wassalam
    Last edited by Salafi; 03-05-2007 at 06:15 PM. Reason: 3rd century hijri


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    Of what I learned recently regarding ahadith is that the compilation and writing of ahadith started during the time of the Prophet . There were certain companions that were allowed to write the ahadith. After his death we could say that Abu Hurairah (raa) is the Imam of the Muhadithoon as he actively sought and gathered the ahadith from the other Sahaba. We also see the beginning of the sunnah of verification and checking of narrations during the Khalifa of both Abu Bakr and `Umar (raa). There are famous events during both of their Khalifates where they sought verification and cooberation of hadith that would be presented to them. So here we can see the seeds of the science of hadith being planted and the example and way to deal with the ahadith is being shown to us by the Sahaba.

    It was at the time of the Great Fitnah that took place that the 'Ulema would be begin to ask, "who is your man?". As during this time people began to fabricate ahadith. So it was from this time onward where the transmission and knowlege of isnad became very important.

    As for the Sunni vs. Shia argument from what I learned, the Shia tradition of gathering/verifying ahadith was a later development. However, I would imagine that with the Jafari and Zaydi schools that this may prove to be a problematic and admittedly our teacher stated that, "he was not an expert in the Shia hadith tradition/history". I would say that this question is probably one deserving of more indepth research. I say that, simply because both Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik were students of Imam Jafar As-Sadiq. Did they take ahadith from him? I'm not sure. Do we accept the Jafari as a legitimate school of Sunni Islam? Nevertheless, this subject would be a good research topic for a Graduate thesis.

    I would recommend the following books to get a more detailed answer to your initial questions:

    Studies in Hadith Methodology & Literature
    http://islamicbookstore.com/b2913.html

    Studies in Early Hadith Literature
    http://islamicbookstore.com/b2912.html

    Hadith Literature: Its Origin, Development & Special Features
    http://islamicbookstore.com/b2892.html


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salafi View Post
    assalamo alaikum

    The muqaddimah (preface) of sahih muslim ( d.261 h) is a very good source to know about the science of hadeeth and its evolution. unfortunately many english translations do not include it.

    wassalam


    Here's a recently released translation of Ibn Salah's Muqaddimah. This publisher is usually very good about providing detailed forewards and prefaces to their publications. I would imagine that they would maintain Ibn Salah's introduction, Insha Allah.

    An Introduction to the Science of Hadith:
    Kitab Ma'rifat Anwa' 'Ilm al-Hadith (Ibn Al-Salah Al-Shahrazuri)

    http://islamicbookstore.com/b9128.html


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    There is a saying that the entire ilm of Hadith is indebted to Imam Malik.

    I'm not sure exactly if this refers to ilm ur-rijaal or not. But certainly Imam Malik lived much earlier than Shu'bah or that Shi'a dude.


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    Arrow Abu Muhammad al-Kanani and Imam Shu`ba ibn al-Hajjaj

    Quote Originally Posted by Gajibur View Post
    Assalamu alaykum

    Does anyone know which muslims developed the science of hadith, was it the shia's or sunni's(ahle sunna wal jama)?.

    If both sects developed the science of hadith jointly then who contributed the most to its development, was it the shia or sunni's?.

    I am asking these questions because a shia website i went to is giving the impression that they were the pioneers of this great science. The website is called "www.al- islam.org" and you can read what they say at this link, inshallah:

    http://www.al- islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/

    Here's a little of what the shia website says: "As to who were pioneers in this field, it must be admitted that the Shi`ah had taken a lead in this field. The first writer to compile a book on this subject was Abu Muhammad `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah ibn Hayyan al-Kanani (died 219/834).[10] But according to Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his Kitab al-'awa'il, the first writer on `ilm al-rijal was Shu`bah (died 260/87374).[11] However, it is clear that the statement of Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti does not correspond with historical fact, for `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah died forty years before Shu`bah. ".

    Please answer my questions or just give me your opinions.
    Salam `alaykum,

    Brother Gajibur,

    The website you linked is filled with inaccuracies and deceptions, and this book you have quoted is an example of that. It is filled with the errors – rather blunders – that seem strange to one who knows about them and makes him wonder: “How can a scholar make errors like these?” But the answer is simple; not all of them are actual errors, rather many of them are intentional deceptions or imitations of such deceptions forwarded by the Shi`a Imamiyya to “win” the “who was first” race to seem to be the better faction or to disparage Sunnis – get on the good side one way or another to gain favors and adherents.

    This is what you quoted:

    “As to who were pioneers in this field, it must be admitted that the Shi`ah had taken a lead in this field. The first writer to compile a book on this subject was Abu Muhammad `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah ibn Hayyan al-Kanani (died 219/834).[10] But according to Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his Kitab al-'awa'il, the first writer on `ilm al-rijal was Shu`bah (died 260/87374).[11] However, it is clear that the statement of Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti does not correspond with historical fact, for `Abd Allah ibn Jibillah died forty years before Shu`bah.”

    http://al- islam1.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/2.htm


    The author tries to show here that the Shi`a took the lead in `Ilm al-Rijal, and thus they were / are better than Sunnis in this field – Trust me, it may sound weird, but that is what is trying to be achieved and is also achieved at times.

    Interestingly, the author even declares Imam al-Suyuti as historically incorrect; but it is he who is not just incorrect, but even a little dimwitted because Imam Shu`ba ibn al-Hajjaj was born in 83 A.H. and he died in Basra in 160 A.H. by agreement (Tadhkirat ul-Huffaz [1:197]) – which puts him far more back than Abu Muhammad al-Kinani.

    On the other hand, let us even accept for arguments sake that Abu Muhammad al-Kinani was the first to compile a book on this subject, how does this do anything good to the Imamiyya Shi`a? Their own scholars have said that Abu Muhammad was a Waqfi (Rijal al-Najashi [216]; Khulasa [372]) – Shi`is who stopped the concept of Imama on Musa al-Kazim and denied the leadership of `Ali al-Rida – and the books of Imamis are crammed with not only verdicts of their infallible Imams (especially al-Rida) for the deviance and disbelief (kufr) of the Waqfis, but even of their early scholars and Imams declaring the denier of any one of the Imams as disbelief.

    And I am not claiming this on my own, rather they themselves openly claim it when they want to. Let me quote the “champ” website Answering – Ansar where the Imami kids have said:

    “Followers of the Wakfee madhab have been condemned by the Shi'a Imams as Kaffir and Zindeeq, one can for example consult the words of Imam Reza (as) in Mukees ad'a raraya fi ilm al riwaya page 83

    "An adherent of the wakfee al madhab is an individual opposed to the truth, should he remain on this deviant path until his die, his ultimate resting place shall be in Hell".
    These words of the Imam are similarly worded in Rijjal Maqqani Volume 1 page 378


    http://www.answering- ansar.org/answ.../en/chap10.php

    But now they wouldn’t mind bringing a “Zindeeq” forward to put on a star.

    And the following is from my post on another thread of this forum:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mubid al-Majus View Post
    your "ra'ees ush-shi`a" Shayh al-Mufid has said:

    اتفقت الإمامية على أن من أنكر إمامة أحد من الأئمة وجحد ما أوجبه الله تعالى له من فرض الطاعة فهو كافر ضال مستحق للخلود في النار

    "There is consensus amongst the Imamiyyah (the Ithna ‘Ashari or Ja‘fari Shi‘ah) that whoever denies the Imamah of anyone of the Imams, and denies the duty of obedience to them that Allah has decreed, that such a person is a kafir, misguided, and that he deserves everlasting torment in Hell."

    -- Awa'il al-Maqalat [44]; Bihar al-Anwar of al-Majlisi II [8:366] quoted from al-Mufid's Masa'il (whichever that may be) - translation taken from ansar.org to save myself from the hardship.

    In short, Imam Shu`ba died before Abu Muhammad al-Kinani, and the latter was a Waqfi according to them, so in either case, the Imami propagandists should not gain anything.

    As far as your question is concerned, then Alhamdulillah, it has been our scholars who have not simply been the earliest, but even the most outstanding ones in this field. Although I do not know what Imam al-Suyuti has said, but I think that Ibn Jurayj (80-150) preceded Shu`ba in compiling a book on the subject.

    But the thing is, the Imamis of today struggle to prove that they were the first in this and that, but my question is: What is the use of being the first in something when now you suck?! (sorry couldn't find a better word)

    Their `Ilm al-Rijal is so poor, that one could actually laugh upon the narrations they pick from thousands of their narrations they claim to be forgeries to declare them authentic. The Imamis have originally only five [5] books of Rijal that are original, rest are *all* based on the five, among them, one is like a useless mini-booklet, and two are written by the same individual. So there are actually three useful works of al-Kashshi, al-Najashi and al-Tusi, and the earliest of the five is al-Kashshi’s, who died in 350 A.H. according to their own sources. Where as we have the Tabaqat of Muhammad ibn Sa`d who died in 230 A.H., yet it is far more comprehensive and detailed than al-Kashshi’s work.

    They are behind in everything when it comes to Hadith and Rijal, as their sciences are not as in-depth and well developed as ours for whatever the reason maybe. If you follow their science, then about more than 90% of their material would be turn out to be weak. In fact, their own scholar, al-Hurr al-`Amili, even said that if one sincerely analyzes the chains according to the science, then nothing would be Sahih!

    Anyways, this is an issue that requires a long discussion and I’m sorry I don’t have much time right now; otherwise I would have given a much comprehensive and detailed reply. So I would advise you to remain alert from that entire website and other propagandas like it because - in simple words - they lie a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahya View Post
    There is a saying that the entire ilm of Hadith is indebted to Imam Malik.

    I'm not sure exactly if this refers to ilm ur-rijaal or not. But certainly Imam Malik lived much earlier than Shu'bah or that Shi'a dude.
    Imam Malik was born in 93 and died in 179, whereas Imam Shu`ba was born in 83 and died in 160. But of course, Imam Malik was among the pillars of this field like Sufyan al-Thawri and Ibn al-Mubarak, may Allah have mercy on all of them.

    Wa `alaykum as-Salam.


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    The Shia assimilated Sunni madhhabs and religious sciences for their own benefit. They took what they liked and left other things. They also added to or subtracted from certain things. The Jafari and Zaydi schools were closely linked to the Hanafi and Shafi'i schools. The Shia took theology from the heretical sect Mutazliah when they were in power during the Abbassid dynasty. They have been evolving over their history and many types of Shia have come and went. Today there are 3 main branches; Jafari/Imami, Zaydi, and Ismaili.


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