Abd Al Qadir jilani Alayahi Rahman on istiwa!

[hetgordijn]

6 The Sixth Saying if from Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani

And it can be found in his famous Ghunya li-Talib al-Tariq al-Haqq,

"It is essential to carry the Attribute of al-Istiwa' (Allaah’s Ascending) by His Essence over the Throne. Istiwa' does not mean sitting (qu'ud) and touching (mumassa), as the Mujassimah and Karramiyyah say, nor does it mean highness ('uluww) and elevation (rifa') as the Ash'ariyyah say; nor does it mean conquering (istila') or domination (ghalaba), as the Mu'' tazilah say. Nothing of this has been reported in the Law (shari'ah). Nor has this been related from any of the Salaf al-Salih, from the Companions and the Followers, or from the Ashab al-Hadith. Rather it is reported from them that they carried al-Istiwa' with its apparent meaning"

(Source: Abd al-Qadir al-Jili, Ghunya p. 50)

See a full translation in: http://www.islam.co.za/abdalqadirjilani/ghunya1.htm

A Concise Refutation of the Allegation that al-Ghunya had been tampered with.

Imam Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani is definitely the author of al-Ghunya li-Talibi Tariq al-Haqq, as any biographer of him has stated. In fact, together with the Futuh al-Ghayb and Fath al-Rabbani, it is his most famous work.

The different editions nowadays all concurr on the text, and none of them deleted the above passage, nor replaced it or changed it in any way; it is her passage, as all the book belongs to Abd al-Qadir! (See first Cairo edition of 1288/1871 by Dar al-Tiba'a al-Amirah or the Cairo edition of 1322/1904, or the Cairo 1375/1956 edition in two volumes)

Thus, any false allegation is Munkar; may Allah give the falsifier what he deserves!

Then besides the proof from al-Naql (Text), we have the evidence of al-'Aql, the faculty of proofs they prefer above the texts, the one they misuse and abuse, and in which they get totally confused, though they are mostly unaware of!

Tell me, O wiseguys! If there is a tradition, or even a trace, from the Imam of his Madhhab, i.e. Ahmad, that indicates that he opposed the Ta'wil and Tajsim of the Ahl al-Kalam, then is it not reasonable that his follower, i.e. al-Jilani, would articulate this?

Would not his teachers, the Hanabilah, such as Ibn Nasir, al-Jawaliqi or the great rawi Ibn Abd al-Baqi report this to him? What about his teachers from the descendants of Ibn al-Banna who opposed the Asha'irah? What to think about Ibn Abi Ya'la, the son of the Qadi who authored pamphlets agains them and others?
If he opposes the Hanbali Tradition of Defense of the Sunnah and its People against Bid'ah and its People, such as the Asha'irah, would he fell outside of this 'tradition'?

See further below:

The Literature written in Refutation of Ash'aris Specifically:

Qadi Abu Ya'la b. al-Farra' (d.458), author of al-Radd 'ala'l-Ash'ariyyah

Abu Isma'il Abdallah al-Ansari (d.481), author of Damm al-Kalam wa-Ahli

Abd al-Wahhab b. Abi'l-Faraj al-Shirazi (d.536), author of al-Radd 'ala'l-Ash'ariyyah

Abu'l-Wafa Ibn 'Aqil (d.526), author of al-Radd 'ala'l-Asha'irah al-'Uzzal

Muwaffaq al-Din al-Maqdisi (d.620), author of al-Burhan fi Mas'alat al-Qur'an wa-Radd 'ala'l-Ash'ariyyah fi-Qawlihim fi'l-Qur'an and of the Munazarah ma'a ba'd al-Ash'ariy fi'l-Qur'an wa-Radd 'alayhi bi'l-Manqul wa'l-Ma'qul.

All these were known people to Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani, the last one his student. Do you, O people of who oppose the Sunnah, think that he opposes his fellow-colleagues in their defense of the Sunnah, for following the like of you as you suggest..?

There's therefor conclusive evidence from both the Naql as 'Aql, to believe that he opposed them, besides their non-evidence or 'proofs' that constitute nothing against what we've said, for any 'evidence' against this is insufficient now, unless they come up with an early manuscript or something.. but they never can!

Imam Abd al-Qadir said, and it can not be over repeated: (though the enemis hate it)

It was asked to him: 'Can there be a Wali of Allah on a creed different from Ahmad Ibn Hanbal?' (See Majmu al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyyah)

To which he responded:


"Ma kana wa-la yakun!"


Ma'a Salam!

[hetgordijn]

10 The Tenth Saying is from Qadi Abu Ya'la b. al-Farra' (d.458):

The Qadi Abu Ya'la, rahimahullah, was the Imam of the Hanabilah in his time, and he was Qadi of Baghdad and the surrounding areas, as far as Harran in Syria, where he designated for instance the Imam Abu'l-Faraj al-Shirazi as substitute-qadi.

He's the author of many beneficial books, especially on Usul al-Din. Insha'Allah many saying of his will be brought in the future, incl. translations of substantial parts of his Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din and other works.

Only now, let me mention a particular quote of the Imam, who refuted the Ash'aris and others, in which I substantiate part of Shaykh Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani's saying - and the affirmation and confirmation of his excelent book al-Ghunya.

I came across this saying of Qadi Abu Ya'la, and I found it very identical with the passage I quoted from al-Jilani. Let us remember first what Abd al-Qadir said:

QUOTE
"It is essential to carry the Attribute of al-Istiwa' (Allah’s Ascending) by His Essence over the Throne. Istiwa' does not mean sitting (qu'ud) and touching (mumassa), as the Mujassimah and Karramiyyah say, nor does it mean highness ('uluww) and elevation (rifa') as the Ash'ariyyah say; nor does it mean conquering (istila') or domination (ghalaba), as the Mu'' tazilah say. Nothing of this has been reported in the Law (shari'ah). Nor has this been related from any of the Salaf al-Salih, from the Companions and the Followers, or from the Ashab al-Hadith. Rather it is reported from them that they carried al-Istiwa' with its apparent meaning"

(Source: Abd al-Qadir al-Jili, Ghunya p. 50)


Now then, see what the Qadi says in his Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din:

"Allah has described Himself as 'established over the Throne' (20:5). It is essential to carry this Attribute without metaphorical interpretation.. not in the sense of sitting and touching, nor in the sense of height and elevation, nor in the sense of conquest and victory, contrary to what the Mu'tazilah have said, and contrary to the Asha'irah who say that it means highness by way of rank, position, majesty, and power; and contrary to the Karramiyyah and Mushabbihah that it means contact with the Throne by sitting on it. It is unlawful to understand it as sitting and touching, because no law has been revealed to that effect.. It only remains that this Attribute be understood in the absolute, free of qualification, as we did in the case of the Attributes of Hand, Face and Eye"

See: p. 44 of al-Mu'tamad, and other passages - his Mu'tamad is an summarized work originally called al-Mukhtasar al-Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din, and it has been published since a few decades.

Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani was not ignorant of Qadi Abu Ya'la, nor any Hanbali after him. It is not overruled to say that al-Jilani made particular use of this text, i.e. al-Mukhtasar, or of its original, al-Mu'tamad, to write down the chapter on creed in his Ghunya. He may have taken this from Qadi Abu Ya'la al-Saghir, the grandson of Qadi Abu Ya'la - wa-Allahu A'lam.

What matters is:

Imam Abu Ya'la opposed the Ta'wil of the Ahl al-Bid'ah, and he opposes the Ta'wil of the Ash'ariyyah.

al-Jilani opposes them too, and in this he concur with the Hanbali grandmaster the Qadi, as they both concur with the Ahl al-Sunnah in general.

Would anyone still allege that al-Ghunya has been tampered with?

Wa-Billahi Tawfiq!

Ma'a Salam!

[hetgordijn]

I came across this article browsing the net, wallaahi, what is your opinion on it?

[sunnimale]

ASSALAM ALYKUM.

All you need is to get "Daf Shubah al-Tashbih bi-Akaff al-Tanzih
By Imam IBN AL JAWZI ( RH)


This has been translated into english ""The Attributes of God '' ( Amal press, england)

Imam Ibn al Jawzi (rh) has given a very good historical back ground of how anthropomorphic belief came into Hanbali school of fiqh and how narrations were introduced to suit their anthropomorphic belief.

One person who has been refuted at every place in that book is Qadi Abu Yala (rh).

You may also look at other threads on this forum where in detail analysis of Qadi Abu Yala ( rh) has been put forward.

Due to lack of time I cannot quote in detail , but this one hadith is sufficient.



Bukhari and Muslim related in the two sahihs that Ibn Umar reported that the prophet said" The believer will be brought close to his lord. Then he will place His wing (kanaf) over him and then say '' Do you recongnize this sin?''

The scholars said'' He will bring him close to His mercy and kindness"
Ibn Anbari said,'' His wing is His protection and screen. It is said"' so and so screened so and so'when he protects him and screens him. And every thing that screens another has guarded it. The Shield is called a kanif because
it screens its owner.

But , Qadi Abu Yala said'' He will bring him close to His essence''

These words come from someone who does not know God, Glorified and Exalted be He. He does not even know that closing close in terms of distance is something that is not possible in His regard. Compare this with the transmitted statement"' Verily He draws near on the day of Arafa"' meaning that He will approach by way of His Kindness and Forgivess''( Sunan Ibn Majah, Kitab al- Manasik , chapter 56'' supplication at Arafa , hadith no 3014)"'

( END OF QUOTE FROM , ATTRIBUTES OF GOD , BY ABDULLAH BIN HAMID ALI , TRANSLATION OF DAF AL RAHMAN AL TASHBIH BI AKAFF AL TANZIH , HADITH NUMBER 16, PAGE 83)


In Fact at most part of his book Ibn Jawzi al Hanbali ( rh) has refuted Qadu Abu Yala with comments like"'he should not be entertained with conversation"".

I would have added a few more points , but I am joining work again and will be back only after seven months insha Allah.


In this book all those Hanbali scholars who fell in the trap of Anthropomorphism have been refuted by Imam Ibn Al Jawzi al Hanbali( rh).


Further more, Ibn Al Jawzi Al Hnabali wrote"

" have advised both the followers and the leaders saying: Colleagues! You are adherents and followers of our madhhab. Your greatest Imam is Ahmad ibn Hanbal, may Allah have mercy on him, who said while under the lash of the Inquisition: "How can I say what was never said?" Beware of innovating in his madhhab what is not from him! Then, you said regarding the hadiths (of the Attributes): "They must be taken in their external sense." Yet the external sense of qadam ("foot") is a bodily limb! And when it was said concerning `Isa: ruh Allah ("Allah's spirit") the Christians thought that Allah possessed an attribute named His spirit which had entered Mary!""

He also wrote
" Whoever says: "He is established on His throne in His Essence (bi al-dhat)," has made Allah an object of sensory perception. It behooves one not to neglect the means by which the principle of Religion is established and that is reason. For it is by virtue of reason that we have known Allah and judged Him to be Eternal without beginning. If you were to say: "We read hadiths but we are silent," no one would have any objection against you. However, your interpretation of the outward sense is morally repugnant and disgusting. Do not introduce into the madhhab of this man of the Salaf, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, what his thought does not contain"


Ibn al-Jawzi was severely tried towards the end of his life when his criticism of Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani - his senior of forty years - led to accusations made against him to the Sultan al-Nasir by the Shaykh's children and supporters.

Ibn al Jawzi had serious differences with Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani and no where has he mentioned any objectionable narration reported from Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani .

[abdul_karim]

Asharis shouldn't try to tell the Hanbalis what their aqeedah is. Qadi Abu Yala (RA) holds a higher place in the madhhab than Ibn al-Jawzi, and Ibn al-Jawzi's aqeedah was rejected by the majority of Hanbalis.

[hetgordijn]

Assalaamu alaykoem wa raghmatoelahi

abdul karim, what is the aqidiah of the hanbalis? What school of theology do they follow?

@sunnimale
Ibn al Jawzi had serious differences with Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani and no where has he mentioned any objectionable narration reported from Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani .


Could you elaborate more on the aqidah differences between Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani Alayhi Rahmatoelahi and that of ibn al jawzi?

[Abdassamad Clarke]

10 The Tenth Saying is from Qadi Abu Ya'la b. al-Farra' (d.458):

The Qadi Abu Ya'la, rahimahullah, was the Imam of the Hanabilah in his time, and he was Qadi of Baghdad and the surrounding areas, as far as Harran in Syria, where he designated for instance the Imam Abu'l-Faraj al-Shirazi as substitute-qadi.

He's the author of many beneficial books, especially on Usul al-Din. Insha'Allah many saying of his will be brought in the future, incl. translations of substantial parts of his Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din and other works.

Only now, let me mention a particular quote of the Imam, who refuted the Ash'aris and others, in which I substantiate part of Shaykh Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani's saying - and the affirmation and confirmation of his excelent book al-Ghunya.

I came across this saying of Qadi Abu Ya'la, and I found it very identical with the passage I quoted from al-Jilani. Let us remember first what Abd al-Qadir said:

QUOTE
"It is essential to carry the Attribute of al-Istiwa' (Allah’s Ascending) by His Essence over the Throne. Istiwa' does not mean sitting (qu'ud) and touching (mumassa), as the Mujassimah and Karramiyyah say, nor does it mean highness ('uluww) and elevation (rifa') as the Ash'ariyyah say; nor does it mean conquering (istila') or domination (ghalaba), as the Mu'' tazilah say. Nothing of this has been reported in the Law (shari'ah). Nor has this been related from any of the Salaf al-Salih, from the Companions and the Followers, or from the Ashab al-Hadith. Rather it is reported from them that they carried al-Istiwa' with its apparent meaning"

(Source: Abd al-Qadir al-Jili, Ghunya p. 50)


Now then, see what the Qadi says in his Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din:

"Allah has described Himself as 'established over the Throne' (20:5). It is essential to carry this Attribute without metaphorical interpretation.. not in the sense of sitting and touching, nor in the sense of height and elevation, nor in the sense of conquest and victory, contrary to what the Mu'tazilah have said, and contrary to the Asha'irah who say that it means highness by way of rank, position, majesty, and power; and contrary to the Karramiyyah and Mushabbihah that it means contact with the Throne by sitting on it. It is unlawful to understand it as sitting and touching, because no law has been revealed to that effect.. It only remains that this Attribute be understood in the absolute, free of qualification, as we did in the case of the Attributes of Hand, Face and Eye"

See: p. 44 of al-Mu'tamad, and other passages - his Mu'tamad is an summarized work originally called al-Mukhtasar al-Mu'tamad fi Usul al-Din, and it has been published since a few decades.

Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani was not ignorant of Qadi Abu Ya'la, nor any Hanbali after him. It is not overruled to say that al-Jilani made particular use of this text, i.e. al-Mukhtasar, or of its original, al-Mu'tamad, to write down the chapter on creed in his Ghunya. He may have taken this from Qadi Abu Ya'la al-Saghir, the grandson of Qadi Abu Ya'la - wa-Allahu A'lam.

What matters is:

Imam Abu Ya'la opposed the Ta'wil of the Ahl al-Bid'ah, and he opposes the Ta'wil of the Ash'ariyyah.

al-Jilani opposes them too, and in this he concur with the Hanbali grandmaster the Qadi, as they both concur with the Ahl al-Sunnah in general.

Would anyone still allege that al-Ghunya has been tampered with?

Wa-Billahi Tawfiq!

Ma'a Salam!

As-salamu alaikum,

Imam Malik said, and it is quoted by 'ulama of all persuasions: "The istiwa is known, the how of it is not graspable, iman in it is obligatory and asking about it is a bid'ah." And he had the man who raised the issue ejected from the gathering as an innovator.

Abdassamad Clarke

[Abdassamad Clarke]

As-salamu alaikum,

Imam Malik said, and it is quoted by 'ulama of all persuasions: "The istiwa is known, the how of it is not graspable, iman in it is obligatory and asking about it is a bid'ah." And he had the man who raised the issue ejected from the gathering as an innovator.

Abdassamad Clarke

And I am not speaking against Shaykh Abdalqadir, may Allah be merciful to him.

Abdassamad

[sahih-baba]

As-salamu alaikum,

Imam Malik said, and it is quoted by 'ulama of all persuasions: "The istiwa is known, the how of it is not graspable, iman in it is obligatory and asking about it is a bid'ah." And he had the man who raised the issue ejected from the gathering as an innovator.

Abdassamad Clarke

salam
and that is sufficient.
i hope muslims will stop debating about 'aqida and concentrate on fiqh and tasawwuf.

a simple text of tahawi or ibn abi zayd al-qayrawani is sufficient 'aqida for us.
wallahu a'lam

[hetgordijn]

salam
and that is sufficient.
i hope muslims will stop debating about 'aqida and concentrate on fiqh and tasawwuf.

a simple text of tahawi or ibn abi zayd al-qayrawani is sufficient 'aqida for us.
wallahu a'lam

You can't worship something you don't know. Shaykh Muyh'din Abdul Qadir jilani Alayhi Rahman understood that, and the statement from Imam Malik, it's quoted for one purposes, to suit one owns need. One should understad what to quote and what context, not suit one purposes. So thereby unaccepted to be applied in this context. In case anyone doesn't agree, let him read: Al-Ghunya li-Talibi Tariq al-Haqq: [chapter ] : Concerning knowledge of the Creator [Sani'] (Almighty and Glorious is He). BarakAllaahoefiek.