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Thread: Index Finger Raised

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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    Default Index Finger Raised

    During the Bosnian war, Serbo-Bosnian troops raised three fingers in a sign of victory, Bosnian Croats raised the two-finger V-sign and Muslims (Bosniaks) raised one (after the strict monotheism of Islam).



    anyone know of any other meaning to this hand gesture...either just the index finger raised...or the index finger with the thumb outstretched?


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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkOQiKKd52I

    * I give all memebers of Sunniforum.com, a raised Index finger*


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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kais_1 View Post
    no ppl pix allowed
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    apologies didint realise u cant post images..


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    Senior Member ze leetle elper's Avatar
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    As amazing as it is, I think the video is rather distasteful. How can you take a video of the deceased like that, holding his hand up to the camera and stuff? It is so disrespectful to the dead, not to mention that when one passes away, they can still 'feel', which is why you should be so gentle with the dead because not to cause them any pain, because everything is amplified, in a way.
    ‘Good and evil can never be equal. Repel (evil) with that which is better, and see how, then, someone between whom and you was enmity shall become a true friend. Yet none is given such goodness except those who are patient; none is given this but the most fortunate.’

    (al-Fussilat 41: 34-5)


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    Quote Originally Posted by ze leetle elper View Post
    As amazing as it is, I think the video is rather distasteful. How can you take a video of the deceased like that, holding his hand up to the camera and stuff? It is so disrespectful to the dead, not to mention that when one passes away, they can still 'feel', which is why you should be so gentle with the dead because not to cause them any pain, because everything is amplified, in a way.
    the video was not taken by me off course, reason why i posted is coz of the significance of the raised index finger...

    and another point, we do make this symbol daily when we pray namaaz , when ur sitting down in Tashahhud


    just summat to think about...


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    Senior Member ze leetle elper's Avatar
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    No, I know you didn't take the video, it was just a general comment. In regards to the raised finger during prayer, as far as I am aware, it should be raised to point forwards and not upwards? I have seen differences in this when observing other people pray.
    ‘Good and evil can never be equal. Repel (evil) with that which is better, and see how, then, someone between whom and you was enmity shall become a true friend. Yet none is given such goodness except those who are patient; none is given this but the most fortunate.’

    (al-Fussilat 41: 34-5)


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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ze leetle elper View Post
    No, I know you didn't take the video, it was just a general comment. In regards to the raised finger during prayer, as far as I am aware, it should be raised to point forwards and not upwards? I have seen differences in this when observing other people pray.
    still....its "the raised index finger"

    another point, we do make this symbol daily when we pray namaaz , when ur sitting down in Tashahhud


    Moving the Finger in Tashahhud

    "He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would spread his left palm on his left knee, clench all the fingers of his right hand, point with the finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e. the finger)."185

    Also, "when he pointed with his finger, he would put his thumb on his middle finger"186, and sometimes "he would make a circle with these two."187 "When he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it"188, and he used to say, "It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron, meaning the forefinger

    http://www.philipcoppens.com/johngesture.html


    What is the “John gesture”? Picknett & Prince identified that da Vinci in his paintings often depicted certain people as raising their right index finger skywards. This is very pronounced in da Vinci’s painting of John the Baptist, but even in the Last Supper, one figure makes the John gesture.

    Let us detach for now the “John gesture” from all of its built-up theorizing. What we are left with, is a curiosity in the work of da Vinci, whereby certain paintings show a person who is raising a right index finger. What could it mean? To repeat, the “John gesture” is not solely linked with John the Baptist; a number of people in his paintings show “the finger”, even though for the most parts they are linked with the Baptist. The key question is: what does the finger mean?

    There is no clear religious significance to this finger position. Jesus is often seen extending two fingers, with the palm towards the audience, “blessing” the audience; The “John gesture” raises a single finger, with the palm towards himself. Picknett & Prince have wondered whether the single finger could somehow be a reference to show that – as one comes before two – John’s church preceded that of Jesus. The turning of the palms could be a mirroring, showing that John’s church was in opposition with Jesus.

    For sure, such thinking is logical, but it fails in on one major point: it requires a large context, and a lot of contextualising has gone in to come up with these possibilities. What da Vinci would have been after, if it was a signed, was an immediate sign of recognition for him or her with the “right knowledge”; those with eyes that see. The meaning therefore needs to be concise, and be set in a universal frame of reference.

    So let us focus on a more direct route in trying to understand the “John gesture”. Leonardo’s education and career in Florence coincided with the Renaissance, which was a “rebirth” of the Platonic ideas, a re-acquaintance with the Hermetic literature. The Hermeticum contains large sections on magic, which makes use of the traditional four elements (Fire, Water, Air, Earth), as well stressing that gestures and finger positions are key ingredients in the various rituals. The “magical finger rituals” are now best known through the so-called “Masonic handshakes”, but these are a quite recent example of an entire spectre of “finger magic”, most of which is now lost.

    “Hermetic finger magic” is clearly defined – thus meeting our “universal frame of reference” criterion set out above; each finger is assigned a specific element: the index finger with fire; the thumb with water; the middle finger with the Ether (the fifth and original element); the ring finger with earth and the little finger with air. Furthermore, the right hand is associated with the positive side (order), and the left hand with the negative side (chaos). As such, in Hermetic magic, the right index finger is associated with “positive fire”.

    I would thus argue that the specific finger movement repeatedly drawn by Leonardo, in the knowledge that the finger movement is not present in Christian iconography, should thus preferentially be interpreted as a Hermetic magical “sign-ature”, with the meaning of “positive fire

    Some Islamic imams (teachers) preach that the hand of Fatima, a revered daughter of Mohammed pbuh, represents the summation of the whole religion of Islam, and that Fatima's index finger points heavenward to Allah.



    taken ffrom marrs - codex magica..

    i typed in the hand of fatima in google and up came "hamsa"



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_Fatima



    nuthing to do with the index finger but of the whole palm and guess what....the EYE in the PALM...



    left me kinda confused, i thought that the hamsa was actually in support of the one eyed king hence the eye...



    maybe marrs is wrong then in his book...im not sure...




    Some associate the significance of the five fingers to the five books of the Torah for Jews, the Five Pillars of Islam for Sunnis, or the five People of the Cloak for Shi'ites. This symbolism may have evolved at a later stage, in view of the fact that archaeological evidence suggests the hamsa predates both religions


    with the above quote in contect, obv the index finger then being the first pillar of islam...





    still confused...

    who are the 5 people of the cloak?


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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    Default Index Finger Raised.....

    why did u delete the thread, was there any content that went against sunniforum rules?


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    Senior Member kais_1's Avatar
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    i dont think there was anything wrong with the content i posted...which was as follows...

    Some Islamic imams (teachers) preach that the hand of Fatima, a revered daughter of Mohammed pbuh, represents the summation of the whole religion of Islam, and that Fatima's index finger points heavenward to Allah

    i typed in the hand of fatima in google and up came "hamsa"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_Fatima

    nuthing to do with the index finger but of the whole palm and guess what....the EYE in the PALM...

    left me kinda confused, i thought that the hamsa was actually in support of the one eyed king hence the eye...

    maybe marrs is wrong then in his book...im not sure...


    Quote:
    Some associate the significance of the five fingers to the five books of the Torah for Jews, the Five Pillars of Islam for Sunnis, or the five People of the Cloak for Shi'ites. This symbolism may have evolved at a later stage, in view of the fact that archaeological evidence suggests the hamsa predates both religions

    with the above quote in contect, obv the index finger then being the first pillar of islam...


    still confused...

    who are the 5 people of the cloak?


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