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Thread: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

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    Default Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    Assalamualaikum,

    This is what yet another salafi has said to me.

    That there is no hadith/record of the Prophet (pbuh) ever praying in the method that we Hanafis pray our witr.

    Can anyone site a hadith/reference for the way we pray?

    Jazakhallah khair

    wasalaam


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    Senior Member JawadS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    Bismillah.

    Assalamu alaikum Sidi,

    I am not an scholar or anything, so inshaAllah the knowledgeable brothers and sisters can be more clear about it, I found this link on the Madrassah In'aamiyyah website, which Mufti Ebrahim Desai is a teacher, I believe. And he approved this answer, too. Here is the link: http://www.alinaam.org.za/dhadith/qna/hanafi_witr.htm

    InshaAllah, I would also recommend purchasing Fiqh al-Imam by Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf which discusses the Hanafi interpretation of prayer, and amongst the chapters, one is dedicated to the number of rak'ats in Witr salah.

    InshaAllah, I hope this is helpful.

    Ma'salama


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    Senior Member MRahman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    Quote Originally Posted by Zacheriya View Post
    Assalamualaikum,

    This is what yet another salafi has said to me.

    That there is no hadith/record of the Prophet (pbuh) ever praying in the method that we Hanafis pray our witr.

    Can anyone site a hadith/reference for the way we pray?

    Jazakhallah khair

    wasalaam
    Salaam - firsly lets break the method up -

    praying 3 rakats: - messenger (saw) would perform eight rakats tahajjud and 3 rakats witr... (sunan an-nasai)

    ibn abbas `- messenger of allah would pray 3 rakats witr. (tirmidhi, ibn majah)


    salaams: - sunan al- Nasai' 1:248 - Sa'ad ibn hisham narrates that the messenger of Allah (saw) did not make salaam in the second rakat of witr.

    Hakim - ....would not make salaams in the first 2 rakats of witr. (mustadrak)

    and ibrahim al-Nakh'ay said umar ibn khattab - said: I would not neglect the three rakats of witr, even if i were to recieve camels in exchange. muwatta)


    These areonly a few there are many more - tell the brother to go and study before making such unsubstantiated comments.
    ما خرج من القلب وقع في القلب و ما خرج من اللسان لا يتجاوز الأذنان


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    Mufti abuhajira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr



    when refuting salafi or ahl hadeeth, Maulana Okarvi's advice rings the bell.. that as far as providing hadeeth is concerned, they cany even prove the takbeerat with raf' ul yadein (i.e exactly where to do and where not to do) from saheeh sareeh marfoo' ahadeeth..

    ________________


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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    salaam dear brothers,

    jazakhallah khair to all of you for your prompt replies, this forum is so blessed alhamdulillah.

    The link provided by br Jawad was particularly useful.

    I dont go out looking for an argument, just that this particular salafi for no particular reason has several times told me that there's no record whatsoever of the Prophet (pbuh) praying witr the way we do.

    salaam


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    Senior Member sufisticated's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr



    my response to people (who are usually non-scholars) who make statements such as 'there is no proof' or 'there is no hadith' is:

    do you know ALL the sunnah to make that statement?

    do you know of every single hadith on this matter?

    if not, no need to continue the conversation.



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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    I like to ask who they are making taqlid of when making a blanket statement. After that, it gets comical to discuss anything.


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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    salaam,

    sorry to drag this on, but their accusations are on the specifics of sitting on both the 2nd and 3rd rakat, apparently there is no record of the Prophet saw ever doing this.

    Furthermore, they quote a hadith forbidding this. I know rulings cannot be derived from single hadiths alone but is there any evidence of the Prophet sitting down on both the second and third raqat?

    This is his response:

    "You would think that the Prophet SAW explicityl forbidding something would
    be enough. the first hadtih narrated by Aisha states that after every two
    raka'ah, there is attahiyat. LIke it says there, this refers to all salah
    generally. If you want to know what she said about witr in particular,
    read what i sent earlier: "He (SAW) used to pray Witr with three rak'ahs
    and he did not sit except in the last of them.”
    (sahih hadith)
    As for the other two narrated by a sahabi and tabi3ee, i would prefer to
    listen to the Prophet and not make my witr like maghrib.

    According to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Do
    not pray Witr with three rak’ahs that resemble Maghrib.”
    What he (peace
    and blessings of Allaah be upon him) meant, as the scholars have
    explained, was that we should not sit to recite the first Tashahhud in a
    manner that resembles Maghrib.

    Concluding, Shaykh Munajjad states : Praying three rak'ahs with two
    tashahhuds like Maghrib prayer is not mentioned in any saheeh hadeeth,
    rather it is makrooh."


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    Senior Member JawadS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    Bismillah,

    Assalamu alaikum,

    I think we have clarified that there are three rak'ah of witr. In Fiqh al-Islam by Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf (which I would recommend you to buy since it has a full chapter, nicely explained, on the witr), the Mufti writes:

    2. Sa'd ibn Hisham relates that: 'A'isha [radi Allahu anha] informed him that the Messenger of Allah [salla Allahu 'alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam] did not make salams in the second rak'a of witr (Sunan al-Nasa'i 1:248, Muwatta Imam Muhammad 151). (ibn Yusuf, pg. 135)

    3. This narration has also been mentioned by Imam Hakim with a slight variation:
    The Messenger of Allah [salla Allahu 'alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam] would not make salams in the first two rak'ats of witr (al-Mustadrak 1:304

    Imam Hakim then states, "[This narration is] is authentic according to the condition of Imam Bukhari and Muslim." 'Allama Dhahabi agreed with him. (ibn Yusuf, pg. 136)

    4. The following is another variation of the above narration related by Imam Hakim:
    The Messenger of Allah [salla Allahu 'alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam] would perform three rak'ats of witr making salams only at the end [in the final rak'a]. This was the practice of the Leader of the Faithful 'Umar ibn al-Khattab [radi Allahu 'anhu] and it is from him that the people of Madina acquired this practice (al-Mustardrak 1:304). (ibn Yusuf, pg. 136

    There were many on the Sahaba (radi Allahu 'anhum) who prayed 3 rak'ahs of witr in the manner which the Hanafi madhab tells us to pray witr. This is also Fiqh al-Islam:

    3. Hasan al-Basri was informed that
    'Abdullah ibn 'Umar [radi Allahu 'anhu] would make salams in the second rak'a of witr. Hasan al-Basri informed that 'Umar [radi Allahu 'anhu] was a greater jurist than [his son], and his practice was to say the takbir and stand up from the second rak'a [for the third without making salams] (al-Mustadrak 1:304). (ibn Yusuf, pg. 139)

    4. Makhul reports: 'Umar ibn al-Khattab [radi Allahu 'anhu] would perform three rak'ats of witr without salams in between (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2:295). (ibn Yusuf, pg. 139)

    5. 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud [radi Allahu 'anhu] says,: The rak'ats of witr are three similar to the daytime witr prayer (i.e. Maghrib) [(Muwatta Imam Muhammad 150, Majma' al zawa'id 2:242 U)]. (ibn Yusuf, pg. 139

    There are more proofs from the madhab of Imam al-Adham, Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimAllah). But here is what I thought would be relevant. We see what the Sahaba did do three rakahs of witr, and Abdullah ibn Masud (radi Allahu anhu) did witr in the same manner as Maghrib. If the Salafis want to ignore and reject this, let them. But honestly, there is no need to argue with them about it. I once sent a question to SunniPath, and someone wrote the following reply to me: "Don't argue with those who don't have true Sacred Law knowledge, Allah Most High has prohibited it." I think it would be best to adhere to this. But please do get a hold of Fiqh al-Imam, there is a lot of information on key proofs in Hanafi Fiqh, and there is one chapter dedicated to the number of rak'ah in witr.

    InshaAllah, I hope this helps, and please forgive me if it didn't. And please forgive me for any mistakes that I may have made writing the post.

    Take care,

    Ma'salama


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    Senior Member Talhah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Salafi: No evidence for Hanafi method of witr

    JAzakallah brothers!
    Great Work!


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