Do deobandis and wahabis link?

[kangjia57]

I have done research and found out some things that the deobandis and wahabis have in common.

Can my Deobandis brothers/sisters confirm this.

1) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s accept the permissibility of Mawlid/Milad - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

2) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s do Hadra and loud Zikr - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

3) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s say Ya Nabi (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wassalam) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

4) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s believe that Allah Ta’ala has granted the Sweet Beloved Prophet (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wa Salam) with the knowledge of the unseen (Ilm e Ghaib) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

And can we all please answer in short and sensible way instead of running round the topic in circles.

[al_Zayn]

I have done research and found out some things that the deobandis and wahabis have in common.

Can my Deobandis brothers/sisters confirm this.

1) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s accept the permissibility of Mawlid/Milad - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

2) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s do Hadra and loud Zikr - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

3) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s say Ya Nabi (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wassalam) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

4) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s believe that Allah Ta’ala has granted the Sweet Beloved Prophet (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wa Salam) with the knowledge of the unseen (Ilm e Ghaib) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

And can we all please answer in short and sensible way instead of running round the topic in circles.

on all your 4 points you are wrong.

and who says there's such thing as arab barelwis? i know there is a few of the same thinking in egypt and yemen.

but Saudi arabian Barelwis? thats first i heard of! Majority of them are Hanabalis and the minority of them are salafi/wahhabi.

1] Deoband Ulamas and their followers accept Mawlid but under strict conditions. i.e. not thinking that it is fardh or looking down upon the person who doesn't celebrate. its virtuous event if conducted under the right manner and guidance. i.e. no mix gathering and no music.

2] Deoband Ulamas and their followers do loud Dhikr, if they dont they atleast agree on its permissibility...i think there was a thread not that long ago with the various proofs for it which were posted by Brothers in the forum.

3] Deoband Ulamas and their followers agree on the permissibility to say "Ya Nabi, Ya Muhammad, Ya Habeeb"...but to say it with the intention that Prophet is Kullu Haadhir wa Naadhir beyond his grave and that he can hear you and see where ever you or anyone else is, is tantamount to Shirk, because Allah [Azza Jal] says he is the "all seeing and all knowing".

4] we believe that Prophet did recieve Ilm ul Ghayb whilst he was alive, but this was with all the Prophet [Alayhi Salaathu Wa Salaam] when they were once dwelling on earth, because without this they cannot be wise in their actions and especially from "forbidding evil and enjoining good"..but now in the blessed grave Allah [Azza Wa Jal] keeps him updated on his Ummah [according to a hadith]...but to say 'Ilm ul Ghayb' as in the sole possessor and doesn't need to recieve it from no one i.e. Allah. then that is shirk. as the term Ilm ul Ghayb is understand as the sole possessor of knowledge and that this term originates from him...one has to stay away from that kind of belief.

"Verily, Allah has KNOWS all things"




p.s. maybe another Brother may go deep into an answer to help you out.

[kangjia57]

Reply to Zaynul8njmb2

From what you have posted I assume that there is NO DIFFERENCE between deobandis and barelwis?


So why is it both deobandis and barelwis are always breathing down on each others necks proving they are the RIGHT ONES?

[madmax786]

Salam Brother

What does Arab/berelwy mean ? If you look at the statistics of muslim ideology, you will see that majority of Arabs follow a madhab, and salafis/wahabis are the minority..............

one more questions:

DID MUHAMMAD (SAW) EVER CELEBRATE HIS OWN BIRTHDAY OR THE SAHABA, OR TABIEN OR TABEE WA TABIEN (E.G IMAM ABU HANIFA) you also follow his fiqh , ETC.. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT .................................................. .................

[mustajab]

Reply to Zaynul8njmb2

From what you have posted I assume that there is NO DIFFERENCE between deobandis and barelwis?


So why is it both deobandis and barelwis are always breathing down on each others necks proving they are the RIGHT ONES?

Some differences are legitimate like tawwsul of saying "Ya Rasullah" from far away with the intention that he hears it. But when one diggs further one finds that there is more of a semantical difference like that of ilm-ul-ghaib. Wheres the deobandis stay on the side of caution. At least that's my observation.

[al_Zayn]

Reply to Zaynul8njmb2

From what you have posted I assume that there is NO DIFFERENCE between deobandis and barelwis?


So why is it both deobandis and barelwis are always breathing down on each others necks proving they are the RIGHT ONES?

this is because they both interpret each others books wrong, its started off with Imam raza Khan who placed takfeer upon the other Indian Scholars after misunderstanding their books. this is because Deobandi ulamas do not place great emphasis on believing the Ilm-ul Ghayb of Rasoolullah or rather do not make it part of Aqeedah.

even check Fiqh-al akbar and Aqeedah Tahawiyyah. they did not place emphasis on this too.

rather they [Deobandi ulamas] believe it is sufficient for the layman Muslim to believe in the following "amantu billah wa malaa'ikathihi wa rasooolilhi wa kutoobihi wal yawmi-l-akhri khayri shahri minallahi ta'ala wal ba'si badl mawth"

to go indepth with Aqeedah on issues through Qiyaas and opinions has no foundations at all.

hence a i think the Ulama ul Deoband have struck a good balance.

Wallahu A'lam.

[Saad]

2) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s do Hadra and loud Zikr - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

3) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s say Ya Nabi (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wassalam) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

4) Arab/Barelwi Sunni’s believe that Allah Ta’ala has granted the Sweet Beloved Prophet (Sallal Lahu Alaihi Wa Salam) with the knowledge of the unseen (Ilm e Ghaib) - Deobandi’s and Wahhabis don’t

1. Read the articles below:

http://www.4shared.com/file/16318970...ified=6ea128eb

http://www.4shared.com/file/16295970...ified=6ea128eb


2. Saying "Ya Nabi" is permissible in poetry or as long as you don't believe that Prophet is "Hazir Nazir" in a sense that he can hear you from far and everytime and everyone at the same time. Or that there is nothing hidden from him, not even one particle of this Universe. This belief is in contrary to the Quran, Sunnah and Salaf.

3. We believe that Prophet was given the knowledge of unseen, more than anyone else, but it's not complete [kul] knowledge of unseen. There is knowledge of things which was not given to Prophet such as the knowlege of "5" things mentioned in the Quran and Hadith. In the last few centuries you had people who went into extreme in the love and started claiming that Prophet was given the knowldge of every single particle till people enter Jannat.

[abuhajira]

this is because they both interpret each others books wrong, its started off with Imam raza Khan who placed takfeer upon the other Indian Scholars after misunderstanding their books.

What Ahmed Raza Khan Saheb did was not a misunderstanding of books of Deobandi Ulama. This is the problem when those reading into these polemics do not look into the original works of these Ulama. Ahmed Raza Saheb literally distorted the writing, with deleting texts, rearranging phrases, omitting context etc.. in order to bring forth a view upon which he could get a takfeer for those deobandi Ulama. Such things are in black and white, and these, in the least constitute academic dishonesty...

It is also naive to think that a person of Ahmed Raza Khan Saheb's intellect would actually "misunderstand" the ibarat of deobandi akabirs.. misunderstanding occurs in one place, or a couple... but he made an encyclopedia of it to bring forth Hussam al Haramain ...

[abulayl]

I think brother you also know what deobandis or barelwi means. There are a place in india called deoband and barewli(i forget the acctuel name of this place) And in deoband there is the 2 nd world best madrasa of world. The scholars of deobands dont have any separte aqeedah then the aqeedah of ahle sunnah waal jamah. If i am from germany and learn islam under a scholar who is from deoband people shouzldn´t call me deobandi. those arabs who are not salafi or wahabi they have also same aqeedah as the schoalrs of deoband and the schoalrs of deoband who help to build this madrasa were teacher of prophet mohammad mosque of madina.

And because of a topic which is not fard and also not sunnah i,e. milad the barelwis gave chance to schoalrs to call them as a deviant group.

Ps: if i am wrong in any sentence please correct me.

[stranger101]

"Majority of them are Hanabalis and the minority of them are salafi/wahhabi.''

This statement is wrong, thus proven by many scholars who have studied in the arab world, and also some who reside there. MOST of those who ''Claim'' To follow the Hanbali Madhab, in fact are Salafi/Wahhabi in Aqeeda and also in Fiqh. If you wish to verify, you can ask scholars who have studied in the arab world. There are very few real Hanbali's in the arab world.