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Thread: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

  1. #51
    Senior Member al_Zayn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak



    forget what they say about each other, scrutinize the narration that is in this discussion...thus one can conclude your points are baseless amongst the Sunni Scholars. again i state one Scholar might state otherwise...but that dont mean it overrides the Ijma' and the Sahih Mutawatir narrations, especially when its Shaahd and the Hadith on this issue is not worth looking at. Infact Aqeedah books are clear cut in stating that first Comes Abu Bakr [Ra] then 'Umr [Ra], but you seem to give the Ijma' no credit.

    But you are always quick to defend!
    It is reported from Abu Umamah from the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi WaSallam) that he said:

    اتَّقُوا فِرَاسَةَ الْمُؤْمِنِ ، فَإِنَّهُ يَنْظُرُ بِنُورِ اللَّهِ

    " Fear the Insight of the Believer, for verily he sees with the Light of God"

    رقم الحديث: 3362
    المعجم الأوسط للطبراني


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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Womans Inheritance:

    YUSUFALI: From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large,-a determinate share.
    4.7

    Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half
    4.11


    So If Woman can inherit, then how did Fatima RA claims fare ?

    A shia told me that Umar RA ripped up a piece of paper wielded by Fatima RA in this 'dispute' against Abu Bakr RA. This paper was the signature of Muhammad SAW saying Fadak was the inheritance if Fatima RA.

    It may jut be a fabrication, but it woulde be interesting to know why they seem to think fadak was usurped.
    Last edited by al_islam; 13-01-2008 at 01:35 AM.


  3. #53
    Senior Member MohammadMufti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Quote Originally Posted by al_islam View Post
    A shia told me that Umar RA ripped up a piece of paper wielded by Fatima RA in this 'dispute' against Abu Bakr RA. This paper was the signature of Muhammad SAW saying Fadak was the inheritance if Fatima RA.
    They also say that Sheikhan (ra) gave baya to Ali (ra) before the death of Mustafa (saw) and that Mu'awiyah (ra) randomly decided to murder 2 innocent infants - only an imbecile or an ignorant would give credibility to them.

    it woulde be interesting to know why they seem to think fadak was usurped.
    The same reason they believe that Dumbo was actually created by one of their aimah.
    Ya al-'Alee (swt)
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Quote Originally Posted by MohammadMufti View Post
    They also say that Sheikhan (ra) gave baya to Ali (ra) before the death of Mustafa (saw) and that Mu'awiyah (ra) randomly decided to murder 2 innocent infants - only an imbecile or an ignorant would give credibility to them.
    I hope your not trying to say anything here.

    I only asked because they seem to be infalible...blah blaa blah
    and so everything they say is right, yadda yadda yaaaaa
    so therefore fadak was usurped FULLSTOP !!

    Even tho their sources say that Fatima RA and Abu Bakr RA sorted it out. Now those sources are said to be unreliable....would you believe it ????


    The same reason they believe that Dumbo was actually created by one of their aimah.
    I dont know what you are saying here.
    Last edited by al_islam; 13-01-2008 at 01:58 AM.


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    Senior Member MohammadMufti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Even tho their sources say that Fatima RA and Abu Bakr RA sorted it out. Now those sources are said to be unreliable....would you believe it ????
    That has nothing to do with this, this narration is mutawattir and an Ismaili from the Fatimis when he commented on it didn't dismiss it by isnad but gave a new sharh for it. THIS hadith is not one they appear to deny - in Rafidi chat, they would change the basis of the argument and resort to "Fadak was a gift" as opposed to inheritance in acknowledgment of that hadith.

    i DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING HERE
    Dumbo? The elephant that can fly? I'm commenting on the absurdity of their religious collection - so of course they will say Fadak was usurped. If they believe in suicidal talking donkies as part of isnad - they will use anything they can to make the Sahaba (ra) seem bad. Every hadith they found in the Muslim books, they took and exaggerated it.
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Quote Originally Posted by MohammadMufti View Post
    That has nothing to do with this, this narration is mutawattir and an Ismaili from the Fatimis when he commented on it didn't dismiss it by isnad but gave a new sharh for it. THIS hadith is not one they appear to deny - in Rafidi chat, they would change the basis of the argument and resort to "Fadak was a gift" as opposed to inheritance in acknowledgment of that hadith..
    Right so if fadak wasnt an inheritance....its been proven here im sure...ill just read through the posts again.

    If fadak was a gift then why would Faimta RA try to prove from the quran that it was hers. Doesnt make sense.

    Dumbo? The elephant that can fly? I'm commenting on the absurdity of their religious collection - so of course they will say Fadak was usurped.
    Right I get you !! Funny (apologies for caps...didnt know it was on)


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    Senior Member MohammadMufti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Quote Originally Posted by al_islam View Post
    Right so if fadak wasnt an inheritance....its been proven here im sure...ill just read through the posts again.
    The claim of Bibi Fatima (ra) was that it was an inheritance...I would be very much pleased if you can back up this "proven" fact by pointing out to me the narration where her eminence asks for the gift of Fadak which would necessitate it being seized from her and not withheld. So I highly doubt this was in fact proven when it couldn't have occurred.

    why would Faimta RA try to prove from the quran that it was hers.
    SubhanAllah. Do authenticate the narration where she supposedly gives a long rant from the Qur'an. Bibi Fatima (ra) had a simple claim of inheritance disproved by the testimony of at least 5 sahaba (ra) and not contested by Ali (ra) even when he (ra) was Caliph. Where in the sahih athar on it did she mention the Qur'anic ayat. Even if she had, they are general and the stipulation of anbiya not leaving inheritance is a specific conditional on the general rule (this is repeated throughout Qur'an and ahadith).

    Ma' Salamah
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Salam Bro Mufti,

    The reason I started this thread and other associated ones under my user is so that I can get more verses and quotations to show me Shia Buddies who are hell bent on converting me.

    Now i know of their Rafidhi, lying nature and the words I use are not those I believe in, but those Im trying to have refuted.

    Im not making any claims, the shias are .... now the hand shake was that who ever refutes the other, is right.....and theres no way im ever going to be proven wrong by a bunch of lies....so just bear with my rafidhi claims and provide references if you can.

    JZK


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    Senior Member MohammadMufti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    Quote Originally Posted by al_islam View Post
    Salam Bro Mufti,

    The reason I started this thread and other associated ones under my user is so that I can get more verses and quotations to show me Shia Buddies
    Wa'alaikum Asalam. I didn't question your intentions, I don't know you but I did see someone with your name banned from Shia chat.

    so just bear with my rafidhi claims
    It is one thing to make a Rafidi claim and bring a hadith they took out of context or lied about. It is another when you are saying things like 'such and such' from their wacko beliefs is "proven" right in these threads when this is not proven from anyone - especially not them on their own forums even.

    Anyways, I would suggest you start at ahlelbayt.com and raise the Rafidi questions when you don't find them answered there in English. A lot of Rafidi arguments are turned upside down on that site and it's really rather useless to bring them up again and again unless you are adding something new or bringing a different argument from them on the topic.
    Ya al-'Alee (swt)
    mohammadmufti.blogspot.com
    Parachinar ko bhoolna nahi.


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    Default Re: Lady Fatima RA's Speech About Fadak

    It was me on Shiachat, Im also on Ummah (banned now) and LI board.
    Did you ever wonder why they banned me ? - Shiachat cos they couldnt handle my debating wen i bought shia hadith to destroy shia ism....cos the hadith are only sahih wen they need them to be and are other wise not accepted - talk about picking and choosing. Ummah banned me cos they couldnt handle me fullstop, bunch of weak pathetic losers really.

    I was adding my views in the recent posts, just a few thoughts I developed, but I dont know about ahlebait.com, or other sunni websites.....I went straight into the lions den, full of confidence and smashed their core beliefs out the stadium, only for them to delete my posts and ban me....so much for the perfect religion....then I thought Why not make other Unaware Muslims aware of WHY a lot of shia are rafidhi (and ummah didnt like this - so they banned me, live in a bubble they do).

    Also I have seen some new hadiths ive never seen before, and they are not present on most webistes, but only learned men know about them.

    I have many many more threads in mind, do contribute as I have learnt a lot I didnt know, and It only helps me refute these twats with more proof, rather than the same old arguments....makes it more fun !


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