South African Deobandi Ulama vs Others!

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Having experienced life with American/Canadian & European Deobandee Ulama, I humbly believe (without ever visiting there) that South African Doebandi Ulama are Masha’Allah doing a great job at serving the Deen of Allah (SWT). I also scan South African media and news from time to time and it is my observation that Deobandee Ulama are trying their utmost in providing direction to common people in many aspects of daily life from Halal food to politics to International affairs etc.

American & Canadian Deobandee Ulama have taken some very significant steps in that direction Alhumdo-lillah, and have great presence in large cities like Toronto, New York, Chicago etc and understand that work needs to be done.

If not knowing English considered to be a disadvantage (in UK) then there are many Indian/Pakistani Ulama in UK of the calibre of “Mufti Navaalur Rahman” but none have his cyber-space presence.

http://www.shariahboard.org/HomePage.aspx

Deobandi presence can be felt when visiting Toronto or New York, visiting London, Na-Da!

British Deobandee Ulama are another matter altogether; their Fatawa works and dissemination is still at rudimentary levels for Europe and their public profile is non-existent…Just take a look at Darul-uloom Bury’s web-site and Darul-Iftaa capabilities to start with…I have personally met the Akabireen of Darul-Bury about the web-site and Darul-Iftaa capabilities many times (since 2000) and offered all sorts of assistance (and I personally know that others have as well)..I was told in 2000 that it was being revamped and it is still the same…

We have three separate Deobandee Khatme-Nabuwwat organisations; 3-4 Deobandee Halal Food Authorities, our moon sighting differences of opinion is common knowledge…Our differences of opinion over accepting dole (and X X X) between Darul-uloom Dewsbury and Darul-uloom Bury is also known...

England has 5 FULL-TIME Darul-ulooms for men and at least 2-3 FULL-TIME Darul-ulooms for women and it makes you wonder what is going in?

Having spoken to Akabir of both Darul-uloom Dewsbury and Darul-uloom Bury on numerous controversial issues (moon sighting included) the standard line is to forward issues to Pakistan/India or Mufti Ibraheem Desai…I am not a scholar but I don’t understand that at all? Don’t we have Muftees in England?

No disrespect intended, but isn’t it time British Muslims ask as to how Mufti Ibraheem Desai is able to accomplish so much more?

Since I have never been to South Africa, maybe my perceptions are completely off the wall, so please correct me!

[Sunni Muslim]

Wa alaikum salam

May be the UK Deobandi Ulama are behind the South African Ulama because the latter have had a longer head start to get organised. The S. African Ulama have been in that land for more than a century while most of our Ulama arrived post 1960, more so post 1970 when the Madrasa's were set up etc.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Wa alaikum salam

May be the UK Deobandi Ulama are behind the South African Ulama because the latter have had a longer head start to get organised. The S. African Ulama have been in that land for more than a century while most of our Ulama arrived post 1960, more so post 1970 when the Madrasa's were set up etc.

W-Salam,

Masha'Allah a good point and always mentioned by people.

However how do then explain the relative progress of American & Canadian Deobandi Ulama? And UK Muslims have relative advantages i.e. the country is smaller, Muslim population is moe Ghetoi'sed.

In terms of Darul-ulooms UK is off course better then US & Canada but in terms of sphere of influence (in public life) UK pails in comparison to US & Canada despite the head-start.

Deobandees are well represented in MSA i.e. in colleges/universities while take a look at FOSIS in UK.

On the Dawah front there are lots of Deobandees involved in US (Prisons, Hospitals etc...), while in UK although they present but compared to the number of Ulama we produce its negligible...If you pray Salatul-Jummuah behind a NHS-appointed Imam in most UK hospitals, you will know what I am talking about...

Although Hospitals in Muslim-dominated cities like Leicester, Bradford, Bolton are different.

[dining_philosopher]

Muslims have been in S.A. a lot longer than a century. Malays have been there for 400-500 years.

[Julaybib]

Salaam.

Sphere of Influence? could it be that the Deobandis are less organised. Or the fact that it is not considered a good thing to work with ideologicaly opposed organisation(i.e. Maulana Mawdudi inspired), who are involved in the kind of social sphere that you speak of like the Prison system, university campuses etc. The only exception being Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, who works with MCB.

[Ali al-Hanafi]

The Ulema in SA are well versed in English and have been there for three or four generations. Many were probably born and grew up there and therefore understand the culture, mind set, etc of the indigenous people.
In the USA and Canada, again the Muslims have assimilated into the society better than Muslims in Britain have and the Ulema are relatively young and were born and raised up in the west, e.g. Shaikh Hamza Yusuf, Mufti Mangera, etc.
By contrast, many if not all of the leading Ulema in the UK are still those that first arrived here in the 60s and 70s and therefore have taboos, live in gettos and don't mix with non-Muslims often, faced racial hatred from the likes of the teddy boys, skin heads, paki-bashers, national front, etc and are therefore reluctant. The second and third generations are still young and havn't been given the opportunity to "take over" yet but those that have had the opportunity to get involved are doing good work, e.g. Azhar Academy, Lantern of Knowledge, Ibrahim Colege, etc in East London and things are changing.

[ENIGMA]

I'll echo what everyone else has said really. That the SA muslims have been there for a very very long time and their efforts are bearing fruits now. I think they are more proactive but if we see what our born and bred scholars have done since being here and see what the SA ulema have done in their time in their country.

I take your point that our scholars and institutes have to be more proactive than reactive, but this will change. Im seeing it it my own town. Scholars are now chaplains in prisons,hospitals etc. They are the people saying open the masajids to non muslims for open days etc.

I dont think our scholars have done badly compared to the amount of time they have been here. The scholars who have been born and nred here are slowly being known and their efforts are bearing fruit.

[jinnzaman]

My teacher studied in South Africa first before furthering his studies in Pakistan.

He described that one of the reasons that the 'Ulema within South Africa have been able to make strides is because they are extremely integrated into their communities. He said that the people there seek to have scholars in their families like most people seek to have doctors. The community gives a lot of money and energy to the seeking of knowledge.

[TDR]

I have often wondered the same thing as the OP particularly when comparing the work of the UK ulema to SA. The longer time in situ of the Deobandis in SA does go along way to explaining this but I still think there's something more.

Does anyone think that while on the one hand we produce a lot of ulema in the UK, the work of individual masajid is being stifled by their committees and board of trustees in many cases whose members are not very islamic?

[zahidkhan696]

shaykh ibrahim mogra masha llah always comes onto media forums and he is very active.
He is representing deobandi ulema of Bury well in UK

The other Bury ulema don't seem to want to get involved too much,
and as for dewsbury they dont care about anything other than tableegh