To The Shia Pray To Graves ??

[min]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPPFjjqDyLU

[al_islam]

salam,

Bro there are many issues bought up here and not much proof.

- The fact that Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA are buried next to Muhammad SAW is something the shias dont like. He doesnt mention the will of Allah here, but later he mentions Allah wishes for us to build mosques over he graves of people he chooses. Would Allah allow for Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA to buried next to Muhammad SAW if they were apostates ? (astagfar)

The speaker is clearly expressing opinion and not fact and inadvertantly proves he is hiding his real views - taqiyyah ?

- The speaker mentions that the graves they prostrate at are in the way when you are praying towards the Qiblah. We both know that isnt true. Shia FACE the GRAVE not the Qibla and unless he proves the graves are in the way of the qiblah, he is not telling the truth.

- Praying toward Qibla is what every muslim does. What has that to do with prostrating on clay ?

- Prostrating of clay was not an action of Muhammad SAW.

- Ali RA is rumoured to have been buried in najaf, iraq and 4 other places. If you go and prostrate at the wrong place what are you doing ?

- How do you know where you prostrate is the actual site of the person you THINK it is.

- What if the shrines being destroyed were not those of the imams, rather of other people ? Wheres the proof that those were definitely the graves of Al HAdi RA and Hasan Askari RA ?

- Imams are not infallible, there are no two clear verses towards them.

- The Imams names are very disputed, like Zaidis for example.

- The doctrine shia follow isnt the doctrine of Ahlul Bayt. Its forgeries of what Shia scholars have been taught. Ahlul Bayt would only follow the quran, yet we see what shis do is often not in the quran.

Conclusion is not either follow our Imams or perish. The conclusion is to answer the questions raised by people such as myself.

[al_islam]

Ahlul Bayt

In Hadith E kisa we see the Ahlul Bayt as: Ali RA, Hasan RA, Hussein RA and Fatima RA.

The Imams after this ARE NOT THE AHLUL BAYT. These are the Aal Bayt. they are the descendents of the Ahlul Bayt.

The Ahlul Bayt by defintion are the people who live under a roof. Muhammad SAW Ahlul Bayt are his wives, since there were no sons.

When a woman gets married of she is living undr another roof. Fatima RA was the Ahlul Bayt of Ali RA.

However, Muhammad SAW honorarily made the above mentioned RA as honorary members of the Ahlul Bayt.

This honour was also given to Salman Al Farsi RA. It does not mean they were the actual Ahlul Bayt.

Shia definitions are blurry.

[Isa al-Maliki]

- Prostrating of clay was not an action of Muhammad SAW.


According to the Maliki Madhab it is not so. It's said that it's mustahhab to do so, and there are Hadiths they use to back this up.

[xii]

In the Maliki madhab, it is mustahab to prostrate on natural material as opposed to modern carpets, I am not aware of the madhab stating that it is mustahab to prostrate specifically on clay.

[MohammadMufti]

- Prostrating of clay was not an action of Muhammad SAW.


According to the Maliki Madhab it is not so. It's said that it's mustahhab to do so, and there are Hadiths they use to back this up.

There is no adilah for the turbah, especially turbat e kerbala they take with them everywhere.

[al_islam]

- Prostrating of clay was not an action of Muhammad SAW.


According to the Maliki Madhab it is not so. It's said that it's mustahhab to do so, and there are Hadiths they use to back this up.

Brotherly naseehat: When debating or discussing bring the hadith in question and then make your point. As your argument stands it is just your statement with no proof. Inshallah bring it when you can.

Also the Shia version is to pray on a piece of clay from Kerbala. That is what the turbah is. Any Hadith for this ?

[muhammad_alqadiri]

Brotherly naseehat: When debating or discussing bring the hadith in question and then make your point. As your argument stands it is just your statement with no proof. Inshallah bring it when you can.

Also the Shia version is to pray on a piece of clay from Kerbala. That is what the turbah is. Any Hadith for this ?

Before I begin I want to remind you all of the nasiha given by Faraz Rabbani concerning what our priorities should be and how detrimental it is for our Islam to argue and debate about issues that we're ignorant of. This will be my sole response to this thread. I just though I attempt to clear up the issue of turbah.

Faraz Rabbani's nasiha (in case you're wondering what I'm talking about): http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30503

To proceed;

I've also heard that in Maliki it's highly emphasized to pray on the earth, but I'm not Maliki, so if there are any more learned Maliki brothers on the forum I would enjoy some clarity on that issue. The only hadith I could think of for their proof is:

It is reported from Abu Saeed who said:"I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, do Sajdah on mud and I saw the mark of dust on his forehead". Sahih al Bukhari (vol I, p104)

Where's the proof to pray on a piece of clay from Karbala being the Shi'a version of turbah?

In Sh`i' fiqh we should be perform sajdah on earth and on those things which are not edible or worn and on things which grow from the earth (besides the earth itself). I personally don't have a turba anymore so for a while I used a leaf and now I've found a flat stone to make sadja on.

[al_islam]

Before I begin I want to remind you all of the nasiha given by Faraz Rabbani concerning what our priorities should be and how detrimental it is for our Islam to argue and debate about issues that we're ignorant of. This will be my sole response to this thread. I just though I attempt to clear up the issue of turbah.

.

with al due respect, i am pretty well versed with all shi'i beliefs, different subsects (usoolis, akhbaris and shakykhis) as well as the teachings of Sistani, Fadlullah and Khameini.

If you have any objection to any of my points, feel free to show me where I may be wrong. These are just things I could pick up from my knowledge that I gained so far.

It is reported from Abu Saeed who said:"I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, do Sajdah on mud and I saw the mark of dust on his forehead". Sahih al Bukhari (vol I, p104)

That is different to turbah from kerbala.

In Sh`i' fiqh we should be perform sajdah on earth and on those things which are not edible or worn and on things which grow from the earth (besides the earth itself). I personally don't have a turba anymore so for a while I used a leaf and now I've found a flat stone to make sadja on

I read its mushtahab to be prostrating on a piece of clay from kerbala.

[jive]

salam,


The speaker is clearly expressing opinion and not fact and inadvertantly proves he is hiding his real views - taqiyyah ?

- The speaker mentions that the graves they prostrate at are in the way when you are praying towards the Qiblah. We both know that isnt true. Shia FACE the GRAVE not the Qibla and unless he proves the graves are in the way of the qiblah, he is not telling the truth.

proof bro? you need proof. whats the proof that they pray to the grave? he says they dont. you cant just call him a liar without proof.