Shaykh Mahmud Saeed Mamduh versus Amr Abdal Mun'im (al-"Salafi")

[Abul Hasan]

This post is for information purposes only regarding the on going clash between the titans of Ahlus Sunna Wal Jama'a versus the dwarves from Ahlul Bid'a.

The individual who calls himself: Abu Turab, literally meaning: The father of dust, alias: Ali Rida "al-Qadri" from Karachi, boasted and bragged on his regular haunt with a heading: "Mahmood Saeed Mamduh refuted !! another blow to Asharis !" And went onto say:

as salaamu alaikum

Mahmood Saeed Mamduh refuted !

http://www.***************/arabic

or

http://www.***************/arabic/raddmamduh.htm


The scholar who refuted him is from Tanta, Egypt and is muhadith amru abdul mun'im saleem

If you look at the second URL above, one can see that he has scanned up a so called response from his "Muhaddith" Amr Abdal Mun'im (he is not Amru - as misread by the Father of Dust!).

So who is Amr Abdal Mun'im?

He is a young man who according to my research was born on 24/2/1967 - making him nearly 38 years of age. When he compiled this work known as Baratul Zimma against the Muhaddith from Egypt: Shaykh Mahmud Saeed Mamduh, he was a few years younger.

Who is Shaykh Mahmud?

He is well over 50 years of age and is well known by those working in the field of Hadith. He took knowledge in the traditional manner with Ijaza from the well known Hadith experts like: Shaykh Muhammad Yasin al Fadani al Makki (d. 1990), Shaykh Abdal Fattah Abu Ghudda (d. 1997), Shaykh Abdallah al-Ghumari (d. 1993) and his younger brothers like: Abdal Aziz, Ibrahim and many others.

Shaykh Mahmud was one of the first scholars to expose al-Albani back in the 1980's in written format. I will Insha'allah attatch a scan of his first book against al-Albani, regarding al-Albani's mistakes with regards to Sahih Muslim, published in 1987.

Of his more later works published directly in expose of the late al-Albani (and other "Salafiyya") in the year 2000/1421 AH is the massive, 6 volume work known as: Al-Ta'rif bi-Awham man qassama al-Sunan ila Sahih wa Da'eef.

It is this latter work that the young man known as Amr Abdal Mun'im tried to refute in a short one volume tract named above and advertised by The Father of Dust as being some sort of significant "victory" over the Asha'ira!

This is merely speculation from his likes, for this book by Shaykh Mahmud has nothing to do with Asha'ira or Maturidiyya, but is an expose of al-Albani and other contemporay pseudo-Salafi Hadith "experts" - and their mistakes in Hadith!

To get to the point, Shaykh Mahmud Sa'eed has replied to the claims of Amr Abdal Mun'im and his ilk back in 2001, and he has published his reply separately and also appended it in the second reprint of al-Ta'rif (at the end of the 6th volume). My own blood brother met Shaykh Mahmud in his office in the United Arab Emirates and brought back these books for my own benefit from the Shaykh directly.

I have also received a short document appended below by a "Salafi" by the name of Yahya al-Adl - who has also shown that Amr Abdal Mun'im is inadequate in his research and claims! So let these hasty rejoicers from pseudo-Salafiyya take note of these points!

Please find enclosed scans to prove that Shaykh Mahmud has refuted Amr Abdal Mun'im.

Wassalam

Abul Hasan al-Hanafi

[Abul Hasan]

continued....

Yahy al Adl's expose on Amr Abdal Mun'im (see attatchment)

[Abul Hasan]

Shaykh Mahmud Saeed in the year 1987 published the following work:

Tanbih al-Muslim ila Ta`addi al-Albani `ala Sahih Muslim: Warning to the Muslim Concerning al-Albani's Attack on Sahih Muslim

He also compiled the book:


Wusul al-Tahani bi Ithbat Sunniyyat al-Subha wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani The Alighting of Mutual Benefit and Confirmation that the Dhikr-Beads are a Sunna in Refutation of al-Albani (as mentioned by Dr GF Haddad in his article on al-Albani)

Here is a scan of the first book:

[Abul Hasan]

As for the book:

Wusul al-Tahani bi Ithbat Sunniyyat al-Subha wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani: - The Alighting of Mutual Benefit and Confirmation that the Dhikr-Beads are a Sunna in Refutation of al-Albani

I hereby enclose a scan of it. This edition also contains a reply to the claims of al-Albani's colleague: Ali Hasan al-Halabi - who was accused of theft and plagiarism by a number of his "Salafi" colleagues (I have a document in arabic if anyone wants it). Ali al-Halabi was also exposed by the Saudi Permanent Committe of Scholars (Lajna al Da'ima) for his distortions!




Wassalam

[arqadri]

salaam alaikum.

I've sent you email but there was no response. Abul Hasan Ashari when he was convinced that Mutazilism is misguidance he abandoned Mutazilism (He was flagbearer of Mutazili creed)...

So Abul Hasan, if you can disprove that Athari Creed is not the creed of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamaah then Atharis can consider following your creed.

I've asked to come on a neutral forum and issue the challenges raised against the People of Kalaam ( Asharis )

Let us be honest to ourselves.

Abu Turab Ali Rida Hanafi Qadri-Mujaddadi (silsilah aliyyah imamiyyah)

[Shaykhs-Pir Sahib]

as salamu alaykum

no offence to either party here, but quite honestly, i am tired of all these kalam debates.... i am also tired of the ashari-bashing.... please get a life, we know that the vast majority of scholars from ahl al-sunna past and present have affirmed the ashari creed - we don't need to continue this. its a total waste of time, and time is precious.

[Abdur_Rahman]

as salamu alaykum

no offence to either party here, but quite honestly, i am tired of all these kalam debates.... i am also tired of the ashari-bashing.... please get a life, we know that the vast majority of scholars from ahl al-sunna past and present have affirmed the ashari creed - we don't need to continue this. its a total waste of time, and time is precious.

I agree this stuff gets quite old from start to finish!

[Abul Hasan]

salaam alaikum.

I've sent you email but there was no response. Abul Hasan Ashari when he was convinced that Mutazilism is misguidance he abandoned Mutazilism (He was flagbearer of Mutazili creed)...

So Abul Hasan, if you can disprove that Athari Creed is not the creed of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamaah then Atharis can consider following your creed.

I've asked to come on a neutral forum and issue the challenges raised against the People of Kalaam ( Asharis )

Let us be honest to ourselves.

Abu Turab Ali Rida Hanafi Qadri-Mujaddadi (silsilah aliyyah imamiyyah)

Assalam ala man Ittiba al-Huda

I am amazed that you have the audacity to come here and make it out that you are so fair, honest, of good manners and sincere in your latest call for an open debate on a "neutral forum"! Subhanallah wa bihamdih.

As for your email, firstly i suppose you got it from "Salafist" (who mentioned it on ahya) - the one who humiliated you most finely, though you will naturally defy that as you displayed in your puerile style. Surprise that no "Salafi" from ahya came to defend you when the reality of Shaykh Shu'ayb al-Arna'ut was mentioned by "Salafist".

By the way, if you really have his editing of Aqawil al-Thiqat - then you should be honest enough to show the Ta'wil mentioned in it by him and how Imam al-Suyuti was quoted as saying that the Ayats on the Sifat are from the Mutashabihat and what he said about Tafweed al-Ma'na (p. 65) - something that today's pseudo-Salafiyya deny! Go ahead and translate for us pp. 173 to pp. 176 on the Saaq and what is in Shaykh Shu'aybs footnotes! Quote to us in full what this Khalid al-Shaya said against Shaykh Shu'ayb if you dare not hide the reality.

Secondly, I rarely use that email and so this is why you received no early response. I suppose you are in Indonesia now. I don't know the name of any Khalifa of Shaykh al-Fadani over there. Name him and his background. Talking about the Shaykh you said at ahya:

Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:47 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as salaamu 'alaikum,

The person "Abul Hasan" is a person of tabdi. He claims to have ijaza from Shaykh Muhammad Yasin Faddani which is strange because as far Shaykh Muhammad Yasin is concerned he kept a distance from anti-ahl al-hadeeth.

Question: Where did I say this? And, if the Shaykh kept his distance from anti-Ahlal-Hadith types, then may be you can confirm or deny that the following were recepients of various types of Ijaza from him:

1) Shaykh Abdal Fattah Abu Ghudda
2) Sayyid Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki
3) Shaykh Mahmud Saeed Mamduh
4) Shaykh Muhammad Muti'i al-Hafiz al-Dimashqi
5) Shaykh Muhammad Riyad al-Malih al-Dimashqi
6) Mufti Muhammad Taqi al-Uthmani al-Karachi
7) Shaykh of the Ahbash: Abdullah al-Harari al-Beiruti
8) Sayyid Abdal Aziz al-Ghumari

and the hated figure: Sayyid Hasan Ali al-Saqqaf...

Tell me, if these are from Ahlul Hadith or not. If not then eat your words.

How is it that you can call for a debate when your language is full of heavy agression, puerile hatred and unscholarly research and deductions?! I post things here and you respond with agressive headings like:

The liar Abul Hasan and Crew !

Then you continued your barage of slanders against me and other unknown and known brothers here with words like:

Abul Hasan, who probably is the same person or one of the brothers of Saif Ahmed ibn Muhammad, Tauheed Khan2000, Karim Abdullah Deobandi, Hussain Ahmed Bengali......samarqandi, faqie, faqeer, ahsanirfan..

These people have a habit of posting under various names...I've just talked one of the students/acquaintences of Shaykh Muhammad Yasin Faddani about these pseudo-Ashari neo-Jahmi type fitnah makers. More to come on it.

don't forget some the nicks die after they get exposed..

He was also caught on the website stealing some material of GF haddad and posting under his name. He again posted some material of GF Haddad under his own name.

Once should say, he is a shameless liar.
for his post on Imam Khallal is a lie. I've saved a copy in case he goes back on what he is spreading lies that Imam Khallal attacked Imam Tirmidhi. Abul Hasan is a SHAMELSS LIAR who depends on Habashi, Hasan Saqqaf and GF Haddad.

The latest liar of incompetent defender of Neo-Jahmi creed ABul Hasan

Subhanallah! This is great distortuion and slander from you - and now let the readers see what al-Qadri is promoting and where he is coming from in his agressive slander with no proof whatsoever! These are no doubt LIES from you!

I am not one who defends or takes from al-Habashi or Saqqaf, but I have quoted things from Dr GF Haddad - for i have seen independently that he is generally meticulous and impecabble in most of his claims. And Allahu a'lam.

You also said:

Another good News
Mahmud Saeed Mahmduh - Asharite - got totally refuted by Allamah Muhadith Amru in his latest Hadam al-Manarah in reply to dubious scholarship and lies of one of the inspirators of Abul Hasan al-Kadhhab !


watch this space Neo-Jahmi liars...

Subhanallah! You are very quick and hasty to call us LIARS! But it was you who got caught out clearly here! Your "Muhaddith" was exposed by his own kind and was refuted extensively by Shaykh Mahmud Mamduh, but I don't expect your likes to apologise for spreading misinformation on just this issue!

And you said:

So once again we find that people like Abul Hasan are on the manhaj Ahl Bida wal Dalalah !

And Abul Hasan appears to be a big fan of that Kadhab kabeeth Ashari Abdullah al-Habashi al-Shafi al-Rifai. Most of the time he keeps with the same propaganda of Habashi, Keller, Kabbani and GF Haddad.

Bring something new Abul Hasan. Inshallah We will show in future how the Great Ash'ari scholars have said Ibn Kullab is one of them and one of the companions and a lot more.

New Material which will demolish the Kullabi Ashari creed.

Verily falsehood is bound to perish.

نعم، بطلان سيموت قريبا

So if you think we are on the "manhaj Ahl Bida wal Dalalah !" Why do you want to debate on a neutral forum?! Since when was it from the Salafi Manhaj to deabte Innovators?!

Are you really serious, and adult enough to use calm and collective language to prove a point or are you going to cloud the issues you raise with your usual barage of insults that YOU and your ILK at ahya are so accustomed to for a few years now?!


Once again, I have no affiliation to those you named in the above quote.


Those who are unfamiliar with Ali Rida can see that his whole agenda is to slander, make tabdi himself and shout time and again that todays Asha'ira are LIARS!

May Allah guide your tongues and fingers which spread such wild accusations via the internet on such a highly charged level of fitna and fasad!

If you really wish us to debate on a neutral venue - who will moderate it? Who will decide who is closest to the truth? Will you use crass language like the stuff quoted from you above?!

If you are really serious and want to see how your claim to be on the Salafi-Athari creed is not the reality, but on the path of futility, I challenge you and your colleague who posts under different names on various places (now calling himself Ibn Abi Yala at ahya), to leave aside the alleged mistakes of the Asha'ira and go back one step earlier than Imam Al-Ash'ari and Imam al-Maturidi, to the points raised by their elder contemporary, Imam Abu Ja'far al-Tabari.

Let us see if you will agree to quote from Tafsir al-Tabari everything he said with out criticising him or the narrations he gave via Asanid back to the earlier Salaf, regarding every Ayat speaking about Allah's attributes, the Arsh, the Kursi etc. If you agree to this first, then put it up in arabic then translate it into English fully. Then we can see where the Asha'ira stem from with their colleagus the Maturidiyya.


Finally, I ask you if you affirm or deny that Imam al-Bukhari made or gave examples of Ta'wil of the Wajh, the Kursi and Yad in his Sahih or not?!

The ball is in your side of the court...