GMWA and HMC

[daywalk3r]

AslmzWW.

Erm why dont these two merge. I know theres a difference on stunning between the two but couldnt that be dropped by GMWA purely cause its doubtful which GMWA accepts also (and its ONLY Freemans that they ok the stunning for). Dropping something for the greater good/benefit of all and help strengthen the "Halal" cause.

Both their websites already have links to each others info hence why not merge. Mufti Sacha's knowledge on halal/haraam is probs unmatched in the UK and HMC's organisation model, certifying process, offices/inspectors around the uk (and their slowly emerging into markets abroad) it all makes simple sence - HMC needs to expand into those areas that are non-meat i.e snacks, confectionery, etc and GMWA could fulfil the main intention it was built on to have a relaible halal certifying body recongnised throughout the UK (soon overseas also inshallah) run/overseen by ulama and professionals.

Yes before HMC existed the stunning practice was almost impossible to avoid in the UK now with HMC being around for the past few years hence the market for non-stunned meat amongst UK Muslims has increased many many fold (*mentioned report here*). In light of this wouldn't it now make a common sense approach to also view stunning as doubtful and best avoided as there's an easily available alternative now in the UK (and its increasing year after year) - non stunned meat.

Canada's Jamaitul Ulama HMA has also used HMC as their model for their own Halal certifying body. France also has very similar as does SANHA of South Africa and America's IFANCA. Evening the UKs HFA have a non-stunning procedure which they didn't have before but due to the huge demand now in UK (and it being easily available in the UK) have changed their criteria - though personally I do not have as much faith in HFA as I do in GMWA/HMC.

GMWA has very good connections amongst a lot of major brands since I can remember (mashallah back since 1993!) and HMC has a good certifying policy, organisation model, offices/inspectors around the country etc - it makes perfect sense for both models to work more closely for the benefit of future generations of UK muslims. Having one single solid strong ulama run organisation makes it much easier for us all and just strengthens us across the whole market.

The present and future generations of UK muslims would benefit hugely (it'll also makes things clearer for them on stunning) if they both just merged or at the very least worked much more closer together then they currently do.

If theres anyone knowing any reason that these two shouldnt be joined in holy matrimony let them speak now or forever hold their peace - LOL.

but jokes aside it does sound pefectly logical and beneficial through and through...

[TDR]

It sounds like a good idea but I was just wondering, do they also have a difference on the issue of synthetic alcohol and it's use in the food industry?

[daywalk3r]

In the Name of Allah, the Inspirer of Truth.
Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

Jazakallah for your query.

The GMWA Foodguide has by the Fadhl of Allah, been operating since October 2001. The Foodguide is not run by Mufti Yusuf Sacha Mz. My bio is here:
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/qna/bio.html
Fatawa site: http://www.gmwa.org.uk/qna/

Mufti Yusuf Sacha heads the Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence, which is totally independent of our organisation. That said, we refer extensively with both HMC and Mufti Yusuf Sacha when we need to, so in short, we are all working together. If you wish to contact Mufti Yusuf Sacha, his contact details as below:
Institute of Islamic Jurisprudence
Mufti Yusuf Sacha
68 broomsdale Road
Batley, WF176PJ

HFA
We are not aware of any reputable Ulama working for HFA, hence unable to accept their verification. The nature of food certification is such that it requires the overseeing of qualified and reputable Ulamaa.

Rulings on Stunning
It is highly inappropriate for you to refer to our jurisprudential rulings on stunning as "doubtful" and should be "dropped". These are jurisprudential technical matters based on the works of erudite 'Ulamaa. I stress these are not rifts of any kind, as Ikhtilaaf between 'Ulamaa are a special Mercy for this Ummah. In matters of Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) a very clear distinction has to be drawn between what is Halaal/Haraam.

When passing a ruling of the Halaal or Haraam nature of a chicken, a Mufti will examine whether all the conditions of Islamic slaughter are met or not. Once he is satisfied, he will deem the animal to be Halaal for consumption, regardless of whether the animal has been raised or slaughtered in an inhumane way. However, as for the issue of declaring the final status of an animal as Haraam because of unethical issues - this principle is not used in Fiqh as it is an external issue and not something which can affect the actual Halaal status of an animal.

GMWA Foodguide - HMC and Freeman
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...ch&page=search


As far as mergers go, organisations which operate independently, tend to be far more successful. As long as there are veritable Ulamaa operating such institutions, Insha-Allah the public will benefit. Working together for the greater good, is desired, with the help of Allah SWT.

We pray to Allah to accept our paltry efforts and others who Masha-Allah are making immense efforts, and consequently forgive and grant us Najaat (salvation).

And Allah knows Best
Wa Alaykumussalaam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
_________________

(Mufti) Abdullah Patel
GMWA - Halal Food Guide

[TDR]

I think that's a good answer*. They all seem like they work together and consult each other anyway, so remaining as separate entities allows them to maintain focus and efficiency in their respective areas. As long as they keep good relations with each other it's all good.

* I couldn't comment on their position on stunning though.

[daywalk3r]

with the utmost respect to that above it would, in my view, make sense for HMC to eventually expand into other things like sweets, snacks etc they already have certified a cosmetics brand http://www.haloskincare.co.uk/ look at South Africa's SANHA http://www.sanha.org.za/ they do :-

Abattoirs - Beef
Abattoirs - Poultry
Abattoirs - Sheep
Bakery
Beverages
Catering Kitchens
Cereals & Baby Formulas
Cosmetics
Cullinary Products
Dairy
Food
Franchised Restaurants - HeadOffice
General
Medical
Processed Meat / Butcher
Raw Materials
Restaurants
Snacks & Confectionery
Soya / Vegetable Products
Spices & Condiments

but yes SANHA's been around since 1996 but guess you gotta start somewhere. In my laymans view pooling reasources together makes perfect sense rather then going seperate ways (no disrespect to Mufti Abdullah DB above)

you could have a good setup thinking about it with Mufti Sacha, Mufti Faheem Mayet and Mufti Abdullah joining/forming what would be HMC's panel of Ulama over seeing the fiqhi issues together with few other ulama.

regards the stunning issue - no comments likewise - only that that when in doubt................

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum Brother,

I know the Ulama involved in both of them so this is from what I understand...

These are two separate organisations with two different areas of work and fields of play.

1) GMWA is a web-query Service (for ordinary Muslim) for products

2) HMC is for Muslim business and they visit locations and certify the process

Jazakullah Khairun

P.S: Although I also think that there should be just ONE organisation in UK (like Ireland) but why it's not so (if I tell you I will get banned).

[daywalk3r]

just correcting some info of mine from before - SANHA i think do allow stunning?? can someone confirm?? Anyone from south africa here??

[daywalk3r]

brother Muadh - as you mentioned it how relaible is the one in Ireland?? Islamic Federation of Ireland i assume??