Haram..Makrooh....Dalee Qatie.....Daleel Dhani.....Imam Abu Hanifa(R.H)...?

[muslim_1988]

AsslamoAlikum,
i want to ask some questions:

Question no1:

what is Difference between "Haram" and "Makrooh Tehreemi"
is these statements are correct:
Haram: "if one thing is prohibited in Quran and Hadees both,then it is called
Haram"
Makrooh Tehreemi: "if one thing is prohibited in only ahadees then it is called
Makrooh Tehreemi"

Question no 2:
What is meant by "Daleel Qatie" & "Daleel Dhanny"

Question no 3:
Is this rule is correct that if one thing is "Allowed" in one statement of Imam
Abu-Hanifa(R.H) and "Prohibeted" in another statement of him,then its mean this
thing is "Makrooh Tenzeehi" in view of Imam Abu Hanifa(R.H)

i am waiting for your replies.
AsslamoAlikum.

[Ali al-Hanafi]

Hope this helps:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30143

[muslim_1988]

Asslam-o-Alikum,
thanks brother for reply,i read this thread,but my questions are different,pls can you answer my questions,waiting..
Asslam-o-Alikum

[illumine]

Asslam-o-Alikum,
thanks brother for reply,i read this thread,but my questions are different,pls can you answer my questions,waiting..
Asslam-o-Alikum

what different, ur questions 1 and 2 are answered in that

regarding question 3 first of all u should ask urself what u have asked, and if have understood the mistake then ask it again

jazakallah

[Saeed M]

Question no 3:
Is this rule is correct that if one thing is "Allowed" in one statement of Imam
Abu-Hanifa(R.H) and "Prohibeted" in another statement of him,then its mean this
thing is "Makrooh Tenzeehi" in view of Imam Abu Hanifa(R.H)

i am waiting for your replies.
AsslamoAlikum.

The brief answer to this question is no, that rule is not correct. There could be many reasons why Imaam sahib rahmatullahi alayhi may have made two separate statements. A general rule cannot be derived from this. The proofs have to be looked at, in order to find out what is makrooh tahrimi/tanzihi. Two apparently conflicting statements cannot give you a ruling.

[muslim_1988]

Asslam-o-Alikum,
thanks brother Saeed for useful reply.Brother illumine i want to ask in question no1 is that the definations which i have written is correct or not?
and in question no 2 i want to ask that Definations of "Daleel Qatie" & "Daleel Dhanny" and these are not mentioned in the provided link,my english is not good but hope you will understand it
jazakALLAH
Asslam-o-Alikum

[Saeed M]

Your questions have been answered in the thread given. You just need to read it.

Inshaallah, I will try and break it down for you.

Question no1:

what is Difference between "Haram" and "Makrooh Tehreemi"
is these statements are correct:
Haram: "if one thing is prohibited in Quran and Hadees both,then it is called
Haram"
Makrooh Tehreemi: "if one thing is prohibited in only ahadees then it is called
Makrooh Tehreemi"

Both of your above statements are incorrect. It would be more appropriate to say:

Haraam is something prohibited with a Daleel Qat'i (strong proof)
Makrooh Tahreemi is something prohibited with a Daleel Zanni (doubtful proof)

It is not enough to say that this is from the Qur'aan and this is from the Ahaadith.

Question no 2:
What is meant by "Daleel Qatie" & "Daleel Dhanny"

Although I have translated Daleel Qat'i and Daleel Zanni as `strong proof` and `doubtful proof` respectively, this is very literal and not a proper translation.

These terms require prior knowledge and understanding of tafseer, ahaadith, principles of hadith and principles of fiqh to understand correctly. It would be nigh-on impossible for somebody who has not dedicated years of study in these fields to either understand these terms with all of their implications and rules, or draw rulings of haraam, makrooh, etc., using them.

This is one of the reasons why we make taqleed of the fuqahaa who have worked diligently solving these things for us.

[Mansy]

AsslamoAlikum,
i want to ask some questions:

Question no1:

what is Difference between "Haram" and "Makrooh Tehreemi"
is these statements are correct:
Haram: "if one thing is prohibited in Quran and Hadees both,then it is called
Haram"
Makrooh Tehreemi: "if one thing is prohibited in only ahadees then it is called
Makrooh Tehreemi"


AsslamoAlikum.

Assalamuaalikum, as brother Saeed has mentioned you cannot derive a general rule from Q3, for the other questions please see my notes on

http://www.islam4everyone.org.uk/Downloads.html

(doc usul al-fiqh, and usul al-fiqh diagram)

take care wassalam

[zaidf]

@Bro Mansy

Salaam Aleykum

can i have some examples for doubtful proofs?
i understand that certain proofs are quran and sahih hadith correct?

[Mansy]

@Bro Mansy

Salaam Aleykum

can i have some examples for doubtful proofs?
i understand that certain proofs are quran and sahih hadith correct?

Assalamualaikum I think it gives a false connotation to call dalil dhanni as doubtful proof, a better translation would be probable evidence or speculative evidence.

When we talk about daleel qat'i or daleel dhanni we are actually talking about their epistemic value i.e. what kind of knowledge do we gain from them? since the knowledge that we gain from dalil qat'i is certain (yaqini) like 1+1 = 2 denying it is kufr, however since the knowledge that we gain from dalil dhanni is speculative (dhanni) like can a sound be called sound if it is never heard, denying it will not entail to kufr.

An example of dalil dhanni is khabr wahid hadith such as the reading of sura fatiha in salaat. This is based on a sahih hadith which is khabr wahid, although all the narrators in the isnad are sahih and it is a hadith in sahih al-Bukhari, however due to its lone isnad the hadith cannot be corroborated by other narrators therefore the epistemic value of the hadith gets reduced from certain to speculative. Therefore denying the reading of surat al-fatiha in salaat does not make one a kaafir but a fasiq (at least in hanafi fiqh).

The matter is further complicated when we look at the textual implications of these proofs, which results in four logical outcomes:

1) Certain evidence with certain implication (qat'i al-thuboot qat'i al-dalaalat) e.g Allah says intoxicant is haram. This is qat'i evidence because it is found in the quran. The implication is self explanotary i.e. intoxicant is haram therefore this is also qat'i al-dalaalat. Denying it is kufr.

2) Certain evidence with speculative implication (qat'i al-thuboot dhanni al-dalaalat) e.g Allah says intoxicant is haram. This is qat'i evidence because it is found in the quran. To imply from this ayaat that heroin, crack and smoking is haraam is dhanni because it is not found in the actual text rather it is inferred. Anyone denying the inference as long as they do not deny the evidence has not done kufr.

3) speculative evidence with certain implication (dhanni al-thuboot qat'i al-dalaalat). E.g. reading sura fatiha in salaat or praying the witr salaat are based on khabr wahid hadith therefore dhani al-thuboot, however the meaning is apparent therefore qat'i i.e. sura fatiha is an integral part of salaat and salaatul witr is an important prayer. Denying it does not entail kufr but fisq.

4) dhanni al-thuboot dhanni al-dalaalat (speculative evidence with speculative implication). Such as the khabr wahid hadith where the prophet put twigs on the graves of two sahabis who were being punished in their graves. this is hadith is khabr wahid therefore dhanni al-thuboot. To infer from this hadith by analogy that it is permissible to put fresh flowers on the grave and further by analogy to put plastic flowers on the grave is dhanni al-dalalat (speculative implications). Not much heed is given to this fourth category.

Note: Quran and mutawaatir hadith (Lafzi and ma'nawi) are only qat'i
just because a hadith is sahih does not neccessarily mean that it is qat'i.
Remember qat'i and dhanni deal with the epistemological value of the text and has nothing to do with the probity and integrity of narrators nor the qualities of the isnaad.

Hope i have answerd your question, you can see from this how difficult and intiricate this subject is. And allah knows best
wassalam
Mansur