Muslims and Paper-Money.

[laughinglion]

nope.. it had nothing to do with khilafat, rather with the nature of the paper money then. It was a receipt then for a loan and Zakat cannot be paid with a receipt. But that changed later on. So the same ruling cannot apply to it - atleast with regars to zakat payability.

Other factors have other reasonings..

No! You have found a position contrived by colonised minds that allows you to remain in your comfort zone of in-action against one of the major causes of injustice in our age. You seem to prefer that we Muslims hand over our wealth to our enemies...

You may find this interesting. The first part of the book elucidates the rise of the banking/modern financing industry. The second the part these played in the downfall of the khalif.

with peace

[umar_italy]

Bro abuhajira, could you point me in the direction of any articles / resources around the recent scholarly view of paper money and its acceptance? It'd be appreciated.

Try this, brother: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=3720&CATE=43

[laughinglion]

Try this, brother: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...D=3720&CATE=43

They state that the promise to pay gold and silver which appears on these paper notes is now meaningless and of no significance. The notes cannot be converted into gold, and they are accepted as money throughout the world. One cannot legally demand the one paying in notes that he must pay in gold or silver.

Thus, a theft has taken place and usurious, worthless paper has been imposed as a medium of exchange by a nefarious cabal of thalimeen.

[edit] I should add, that the theft is still being perpetrated (is on-going).

peace

[abuhajira]

No! You have found a position contrived by colonised minds that allows you to remain in your comfort zone of in-action against one of the major causes of injustice in our age. You seem to prefer that we Muslims hand over our wealth to our enemies...

You may find this interesting. The first part of the book elucidates the rise of the banking/modern financing industry. The second the part these played in the downfall of the khalif.

with peace

sidi LL,

I do not wish to discuss or even respect your opinion on this matter anymore.. you can in the last thread, made one post and then simply vanished without tackling the issue. I do not wish to waste time.

Islamic Fiqh is a set out of principles. Some time you may not our of your own logic, agree with the outcome position from these principle. but that will not make the principles wrong and neither its decision. ( eg when person A accuses B of theft of his possession, still is unable to prove it, albeit he knows 100% that the theft was done by B... Shariah does not levy any harm on B)

In our situation with currency, you are taking an emotional stand and NOT an academic one. I asked one simple question through out the last thread and you and your collegues didnt even bother to address it. Please do not make this thread like that.

What does the "rise of banking" has to do with legality of "thaman" in Shariah? Even if you take the banks out. One can still have a paper money. Heck we can have shells or rubber coins to be the thaman. It will not make a difference. Your idea of incorporating anything that has to do with Buyu' with "banking and the devils behind it" is not an academic position. Atomic Bomb was also devised by the kuffar essentially to blast out all the opposition including Islam. Now should the muslims also stop using atomic reactors for electricity?? Please realize that I am not praising this economy.. I am trying to shake you to understand that rulings of Fiqh are not based on such issues. We all would love an Islamic Economy, but that would not render a transaction with paper money as being perfectly fine, simply because it does fulfil all the requirements of the Bai'

Sidi, if you want to discuss this, do it properly.. Nonetheless I will read through your link for a history lesson (again!)

[abuhajira]

Thus, a theft has taken place and usurious, worthless paper has been imposed as a medium of exchange by a nefarious cabal of thalimeen.

[edit] I should add, that the theft is still being perpetrated (is on-going).

peace

1. And thus with you accepting the above... Murabitun's argument of transactions with paper money being a transfer of debt is equally destroyed.

2. As for theft and usury.. prove it.. where is this interest in the paper money? Are you refering to time value of money as usury?

3. The worthlessness of paper money (i.e its intrinsic value) is not a factor in the validity of transactions. Can you prove otherwise? Where are the dalail?

[laughinglion]

sidi LL,

I do not wish to discuss or even respect your opinion on this matter anymore.. you can in the last thread, made one post and then simply vanished without tackling the issue. I do not wish to waste time.

Sidi, if you want to discuss this, do it properly.. Nonetheless I will read through your link for a history lesson (again!)

Sidi, I pray your circumstances are pleasing.

Please accept my apologies. I had intended to reply to posts in that previous thread (whether to a specific question or otherwise I'm unsure) but circumstances took over and I do not have time to 'play catch-up' on the internet...Please understand that outside of school/studies there are 'more' pressing demands on one's time (not to understate the importance of our discussions).

What was the title of the previous thread? I will look it up .

Have you read the book/link before? No harm to read it over...


with peace

[abuhajira]

Sidi, I pray your circumstances are pleasing.

Have you read the book/link before? No harm to read it over...


with peace

Allah accept your efforts, Amin

I skimmed the book. but will read it tomorrow.. when my long weekend starts. currently.. I am also pressed for time.

[Ali al-Hanafi]

no.. but I can scan and put it up.

Please do.

[tariq3]

and so is technology : ).. Mufti Desai once commented, that if we need to make a positive impact to the world economy.. we need to revert to the land.. and cultivation. All other solution can be taken out from that. I didnt understand his comment then.. nor do I understand it now.. but Its true that the basic foundation of economy is in farming and cultivation of lands.

That's a beautiful comment and full of wisdoms. One of the problems of our times is that many have lost any connection with traditional skills like farming, sewing, gardening and other skills like carpentry etc. In this way, everyone become dependent upon the system to provide the basics of life. Returning to these basics actually allows the Muslim to live in anytime, any place and under many circumstances. It gives us self-sufficiency. I hope to connect with some of these skills Insha Allah.

[shushu]

"The blessed Prophet declared that any transaction involving an exchange of ‘money’ for ‘money’ must be an equal exchange, i.e., with no difference in amount of money exchanged. He declared that an unequal exchange (that would open the door for money to increase over time) would be Riba. Islam also insists that all business transactions must involve risk – and hence ‘profit’ or ‘loss’. Allah Most High can then intervene to distribute and redistribute wealth by taking from some and giving to others. In this way the rich would not remain permanently rich, and the poor would not be imprisoned in permanent poverty

Paper money is not correct methodology for harnessing and equal level of exchange"

http://www.imranhosein.org/content/view/100/67/


"Muslims are helpless because they lack power. They lack power because they lack freedom,including economic freedom, and that is, most of all, freedom from exploitation and enslavement inherent in riba. Riba has impoverished the masses in the entire Muslim world. Riba has rendered Muslims powerless to resist financial blackmail. Because of riba Muslims now live a collective life not entirely dissimilar to slavery. He who pays the piper continues to call the tune."

http://www.hamditabligh.net/pdf/QH/I...ibaInIslam.pdf