Contradicting prayer times?

[Al-Faruqi]

I'm confused on islamicfinder it says for my town salat ul-isha is at ca. 11.30 pm and the diyanet calendar in my masjid says 11.05 pm - why this difference?

I'm confused how come this difference, can anybody explain my this ?

[umar_italy]

I'm confused on islamicfinder it says for my town salat ul-isha is at ca. 11.30 pm and the diyanet calendar in my masjid says 11.05 pm - why this difference?

I'm confused how come this difference, can anybody explain my this ?

Well, so you're "lucky": in my masjid the difference between the calendar of the mosque (10:08) and the islamicfinder one (settled on Darul Uloom Karachi) (11:00) is of almost one hour!!

This very evening I talked with the brother charged with the table time: we'll meet tomorrow to clarify this subject.

However I think the reason beyond this is the plurality of methods of calculation: the one you choose, the Salat-time you have, and this especially for Fajr and Ishaa'..
But my point is that we shouldn't choose the more comfortable method (for other brothers seem to care about people who work and couldn't manage to come to the mosque too late.......), but the one more proper to our latitude (I think the method of calculation should consider this too).

[abdullatif]

as sallamu alaikum

Salatul isha comes in well before it says on the prayer schedules used in most masjid I've been to At least in the shafi'i madhhab.

[Ma'ruf]

Can i please sincerely advise you NOT to use islamicfinder. It will very likely give you incorrect times. Also, they claim to use ISNA's official method, which does not exist.

Go to www.moonsighting.com and email the brothers there to send you correct prayer times for your town (tell them your madhab too). They are very prompt. Alternatively, use your local mosque's times, which will almost certainly be almost exactly the same as what you will get from moonsighting.com. Islamicfinder gives wildly innaccurate times for many localities, as I found out by experience (like the sky being pitch-black before supposed maghreb time, for example).

[Yahya]

I strongly encourage everyone to use the sun when determining the prayer times. A simple look out of the window will tell you if the time is in or not.

[alfatiha]

I strongly encourage everyone to use the sun when determining the prayer times. A simple look out of the window will tell you if the time is in or not.

can you elaborate for us. I live near the mountain, so it's hard to see the horizon. how do we determine if it is already maghrib?

[Al-Faruqi]

:bismi:



I agree, giving a short look outside just for verification is more secure.
But you should have a good knowledge about your madhhab's ruling concerning the position of the sun and the prayer times if you want to rely on your personal sighting.

@ Brother alfatiha
According to the Shafi'i fiqh book 'Reliance of the Traveller', page 110:

(3) The time for the sunset prayer (maghrib) begins when the sun has completely set.

Maybe this helps you.

[alfatiha]

yes. but the sun goes behind the mountain, so I don't know when it is completely set or not.

[daywalk3r]

AsalaamWW

Can someone also explain to me the difference here in the UK for Esha and fajr start times in the summer months.

In my area which has 2 large masjids in mid June Fajr time at one is 01:17 and the other 5 mins away is at 02:45 - so in some years time when ramdhan comes along you'll have a brother in the same house going to one masjid eating still 1.5 hours after his other brother in room next door going to the other masjid would be fast asleep having eaten and prayed fajr 1.5 hours ago ???

I know theres a difference between the methods of calculation but surely one of these ways/times is more closer to the truth then the other - both cant be equally right can they???

[Yahya]

can you elaborate for us. I live near the mountain, so it's hard to see the horizon. how do we determine if it is already maghrib?

Sure, but this is going to sound more complicated than it really is. This stuff takes less than a second once you get used to it, and it only takes 2 or 3 days to get used to.


Shafi'i rules:

Fajr = its time begins at "True Dawn", which is a horizontal line of white light on the horizon which then expands upwards. If there are moutains in the way, then you can look at the easternmost portion of the visible sky, if it is brighter than than the westernmost portion of visible sky, fajr is in (although it may have been in for some time already). But you will be certain that your Salat is within the proper time.

THuhr = its time begins as soon as the sun begins its descent from its zenith. The sun is at its zenith when the shadows are at their shortest, so as soon as a shadow lengthens, you know that Thuhr time is in. Also, on a related note, if you live North of the equator, then the sun is EXACTLY due South when it's at its zenith (and EXACTLY due North if you live south of the equator). So, given that the sun always rises in the east, and sets in the west, and passes to the south along the way, you actually only need to know which direction is due south. If the sun has passed the point of 'due south', then thuhr is in.

Asr = Asr is the hardest to tell. Its time begins when the shadow of a thing has lengthened by its height. So, imagine a vertical stick that's 3 feet high. If its shortest shadow was 1 foot (when the sun was at its zenith), then once its shadow reaches 4 feet (ie. the 1 foot shadow lengthened by the height of the object), Asr is in. If you were not paying attention to the shadows at the moment that the sun was at its zenith, fear not. Whenever you look and find that Thuhr is in, note the length of any shadow. Whenever that shadow has lengthened by the height of the object, Asr is in. So, if you observed Thuhr sometime during the middle of thuhr time, then you will not know that exact moment that Asr arrives, but you will still be able to determine for sure when you can pray Asr.

Maghrib = its time begins when the sun has set below the horizon. If you cannot see the horizon, then there are two other methods: 1- sunrays. If you look at the peaks of the mountains that obscure the western horizon, or at the tops of the buildings that obscure it, then once you no longer see sunrays at the peaks (or roofs), you know that the sun is set. 2- darkness. If you see darkness approaching from the east, then you know that the sun is set.

Ishaa = it's time begins with the disappearance of the red twillight from the sky. It can also be known by the presence of many "small" stars (ie. not the bright ones that come out during maghrib time). But the small stars don't come out in multitudes until well into Isha time. But nonetheless, if you see a LOT of stars, you know that Ishaa is in, and you may pray.



So, for those of you who notice a discrepancy in the calculated times, you can just look outside during interval between them, and see which one is right. Or, to be safe, you can just always follow the later of the two times (and it may be a good idea to add 10 minutes to the later time as well).