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Thread: Can the Deceased Hear in Their Graves?

  1. #1
    Senior Member faqir's Avatar
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    Default Can the Deceased Hear in Their Graves?

    Asalamu alaykum,

    There appears to be a misconception amongst the Salafi / Wahabi sect that the deceased can not hear or are not aware of their surroundings whilst they are in their graves.

    see: http://****************/index.php?ln...e&QR=763&dgn=4



    The following Hadith suggest otherwise.


    Proof that the Deceased Hear in their Graves


    Abu Umama said,

    "When I die, do with me as the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam) ordered us, saying, 'When one of your brothers dies and you have smoothed over the earth upon his grave, let one of you stand at the head of the grave and say, "O So and so Son of So and so" for he will hear, though he cannot reply - and then say, "O So and So, son of So and so," and he will say, "Direct me, Allah have mercy upon you mercy on you," though you will not hear it, but should say, "Remember the creed upon which you departed from this world, the testification that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His slave and messenger, and that you accepted Allah as your Lord, Islam as your religion, Muhammad as your prophet, and the Koran as your exemplar." For then the two angels Munkar and Nakir will take each other's hand and say, "Let us go, what is there to keep us beside someone who has been instructed how to make his plea?"

    A Man said, "O Messenger of Alllah, what if one does not know the name of his mother?" and he answered, 'Then one should mention his descent from his mother Eve, saying, "O so and so son of Eve"




    Tabarani related this hadith in his al-Mu'jam al kabir and Ibn Hajar al Asqalani has said that "its transmission is sound" [Talkhis al-habir fi takhrij ahadith al-Rafi'i al-kabir]

    Narrated Ibn Shihab:

    These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning (the Badr battle) he said, "While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them), 'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.' ……"

    [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 360]
    Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

    "The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452]

    Anas b. Malik reported that:


    Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) let the dead bodies of the unbelievers who fought in Badr (lie unburied) for three days. He then came to them and sat by their side and called them and said: O Abu Jahl b. Hisham, O Umayya b. Khalaf, O Utba b. Rab'ila, O Shaiba b. Rabi'a, have you not found what your Lord had promised with you to be correct? As for me, I have found the promises of my Lord to be (perfectly) correct. Umar listened to the words of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, how do they listen and respond to you? They are dead and their bodies have decayed. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, what I am saying to them, even you cannot hear more distinctly than they, but they lack the power to reply. Then'he commanded that they should be buried in the well of Badr.

    [Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6869]
    Narrated Abu Talha:

    "On the day of Badr, the Prophet ordered that the corpses of twenty four leaders of Quraish should be thrown into one of the dirty dry wells of Badr. …… When he halted at the edge of the well, he addressed the corpses of the Quraish infidels by their names and their fathers' names, "O so-and-so, son of so-and-so and O so-andso, son of so-and-so! Would it have pleased you if you had obeyed Allah and His Apostle? We have found true what our Lord promised us. Have you too found true what your Lord promised you? "'Umar said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are speaking to bodies that have no souls!" Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, you do not hear, what I say better than they do."

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 314
    Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0220: Narrated Amr ibn al-'As:

    Ibn Shamasah said: We went to Amr ibn al-'As and he was about to die. He wept for a long time and turned his face towards the wall. His son said: Did the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) not give you tidings of this? Did the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) not give you tidings of this? He (the narrator) said: He turned his face (towards the audience) and said: The best thing which we can count upon is the testimony that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Verily I have passed through three phases.

    (The first was one) in which I found myself averse to none else more than I was averse to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and there was no other desire stronger in me than the one that I should overpower him and kill him. Had I died in this state, I should have been definitely one of the denizens of Fire.

    When Allah instilled the love of Islam in my heart, I came to the Apostle (peace be upon him) and said: Stretch out your right hand so that I may pledge my allegiance to you. He stretched out his right hand. I withdrew my hand. He (the Holy Prophet) said: What has happened to you, O' Amr? I replied: I intend to lay down a condition. He asked: What condition do you intend to put forward? I said: I should be granted pardon. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Are you not aware of the fact that Islam wipes out all the previous (misdeeds)? Verily migration wipes out all the previous (misdeeds) and verily the pilgrimage wipes out all the (previous) misdeeds.

    After that no one was more dear to me than the Messenger of Allah and none was more sublime in my eyes than he. Never could I pluck up courage to catch a full glimpse of his face due to its splendour. So if I am asked to describe his features, I cannot do that for I have not eyed him fully. Had I died in this state I had every reason to hope that I should have been among the dwellers of Paradise.

    Then we were responsible for certain things (in the light of which) I am unable to know what is in store for me. When I die, let neither female mourner nor fire accompany me. When you bury me, fill my grave well with earth, then stand around it for a time which a camel is slaughtered and its meat is distributed so that I may enjoy your intimacy and (in your company) ascertain what answer I can give to the messengers (angels) of Allah.
    The Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam said:

    "When a servant is laid in his grave and his friends have turned from him and he hears the footfalls of their sandals, two angels come to him, sit him upright, and ask him, "What were you wont to say of this man Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam? The believer will answer, "I testify that he is the slave of Allah and His messenger," and it will be said, "Look at your place in hell, Allah has changed it for a place in paradise," and the man will behold both of them...."


    [Abu Dawud]
    Wasalam.
    Last edited by faqir; 20-06-2006 at 08:15 PM.
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Senior Member faqir's Avatar
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    Hafiz Ibn Kathir writes:

    "In the 18th year of the Hijra, during the Khilafa of 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) there was a famine. 'Umar and Bilal (may Allah be well pleased with them) went to the blessed grave of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and said 'Ya Rasulu'llah! Your umma is dying (from hunger). Pray for us that Allah sends us rain'. Later, Bilal (may Allah be pleased with him) had a dream in which the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) told Bilal to go to 'Umar and convey his salaam, and to inform him that there will be rain and that he should perform salat Istisqa'.

    This is a very authentic narration"

    [Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir, chapter on Khilafa of 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with him)]




    Hafiz ibn Taymiyya writes:

    "In the time of a drought, a person came to our Prophet's grave and complained about the drought. He then saw our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) who told him to go to 'Umar and tell him to perform the salat of Istisqah.There are numerous true narrations similar to this"

    [Iqtisa Sirat al Mustaqim, page 373. Imam Bukhari has also discussed this in his book, Ta'rikh al Kabir, under the 'Biography of Malik ad-Dar']




    Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani
    writes:

    "A person who came to the grave said: 'Your Umma is dying; supplicate to Allah to send rain.Sayf says: 'The person who made this supplication to the Messenger of Allah was called Bilal ibn al-Harith (may Allah be pleased with him).

    This narration is authentic"

    [al-'Asqalani, Ibn Hajar, Fath al Bari, chapter on "al Istisqa" ]



    The scholar of Masjid an Nabawi, Shaykh al-Jazari, writes:

    "The narration of Bilal ibn Harith concerning going to the grave and asking our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) to supplicate for the rain, is also recorded by Imam Bukhari in his book of Ta'rikh. Also, Hafiz al-'Asqalani recorded this in Fath al Bari; Imam al al-Bayhaqi included it in his Dala'il al -Nabuwat, and it also appears in the Musnaf of Ibn Abi Shayba, Ibn Abi Khusayama and in Ibn Abd al Barr - this narration has really surprised me"

    [al-Jazari,Abu Bakr, Waja a-Yarkudun, page 32 ]


    .....




    A clarification


    After reading Hafiz Ibn Kathir's, Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya's and Hafiz al-'Asqalani's verifications, there is no need to discuss any further about this narration of Bilal (may Allah be pleased with him). However, some Muslims may still then question the narrator of this hadith - whether he was considered weak or authentic. Let us now look at the narrators of this narration.




    The narrators of this narration are:

    *

    Abu Mu'awiya
    *

    Imam A'mash
    *

    Abu Salih Abd al Rahman ibn Sa'id
    *

    Malik ibn Ayyad al-Dar




    The first two narrators are considered as great narrators of hadith - all the great scholars of hadith have taken their narrations, including Imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari, so there is no doubt about their authenticity.The third and fourth narrators will be discussed now.



    The third narrator is Abd al Rahman ibn Sa'id al-Makhzumi. Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani writes of him:

    "Imam Bukhari took a narration from him in his book Juz Raf-al-yadain. Imam Abu Dawud also took a narration from him. He was a student of 'Uthman ibn 'Affan, the third caliph of Islam and he took narrations from Malik Aldar, and he in turn, learned the knowledge of hadith from his father (i.e. Ayyad). Imam Ibn Abu Sa'id said 'He was an authentic narrator'. Imam Ibn Hibban also listed him in the list of authentic scholars of hadith. Imam Ibn al-Madani, who was the teacher of Imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari, also made the same remarks about him"

    [Tahzib-ut-Tahzib, biography of Sa'id ibn Abd al Rahman, Hafiz al-'Asqalani]



    The fourth narrator of this Hadith is Malik ibn Ayyaz Aldar. Imam Bukhari writes:

    "Malik ibn Ayyaz Aldar narrated that:'Umar said 'O Allah, I am only lacking when I am powerless'. Abu Salih also narrated this from Malik Aldar"

    [Imam Bukhari, Ta'rikh al-Kabir, biography of Malik Aldar ]



    Imam Ibn Abi Hatim writes:

    "Malik ibn Ayyaz Aldar was a slave of 'Umar and he was freed by him. He narrated from Abu Bakr and'Umar. He was a taab'ee and Abu Salih also narrated from him - and he was famous"

    [Hatim, Ibn Abi, al-jar-hu-wal-ta'deel., biography of Malik Aldar. ]



    Imam Ibn Abi Saad writes:

    "Malik Aldar was a freed slave of 'Umar, and he narrated hadith from Abu Bakr and 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with them all) and he was a famous man"

    [Saad, Ibn Abi, Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd, biography of Malik Aldar.]




    After reading these references it can be seen that the third and fourth narrators of the hadith under discussion are famous, authentic and not unknown; no one can assume these narrators are weak.



    http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Default Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri = Pseudo-Salafi

    Quote Originally Posted by faqir

    The scholar of Masjid an Nabawi, Shaykh al-Jazari, writes:

    "The narration of Bilal ibn Harith concerning going to the grave and asking our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) to supplicate for the rain, is also recorded by Imam Bukhari in his book of Ta'rikh. Also, Hafiz al-'Asqalani recorded this in Fath al Bari; Imam al al-Bayhaqi included it in his Dala'il al -Nabuwat, and it also appears in the Musnaf of Ibn Abi Shayba, Ibn Abi Khusayama and in Ibn Abd al Barr - this narration has really surprised me"

    [al-Jazari,Abu Bakr, Waja a-Yarkudun, page 32 ]

    ]


    I am not sure if the author you quoted really knows the reality of al-Jaza'iri. He is a pseudo-Salafi, who was hated even by some of his own; Like: Falih al-Harbi. This al-Harbi himself has recently been dropped from the list of so called major Ulama of the Wahhabiyya by spubs.com, and has been exposed by their Imam: Rabi al-Madkhali!

    Here is something i saved:

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    AL-JAZA'IRI

    The Harmer of the Prophet (SAWS)
    by Dr. G.F. Haddad

    Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri is an Algerian who fled his country at the time Algeria was in the throes of jihad against the French occupants and settled in Saudi Arabia where he was promoted to the post of teacher in the Mosque of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - in Madina. There, he sat attacking the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him -, the Sufis and the Saints until his death in 1999, repeating and shouting at the top of his lungs, right next to al-Mustafa - Allah bless and greet him: "The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire! The father and mother of the Prophet are in hellfire!" For this act alone, al-Jaza'iri deserves to receive the title of Harmer of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him and his Family. He repeated this statement with relation to the father of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - in writing.1

    This specific obsession of "Salafis" and Wahhabis against the two Noble Parents of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - is in direct violation of the injunction of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - himself as established by the following hadith:

    A man from the Ansar insulted al-`Abbas's father who lived in the Time of Ignorance, whereupon al-`Abbas slapped him. The man returned to his people who said: "By Allah, we shall slap him just as he slapped him," and they girded their weapons. News of this reached the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - who ascended the pulpit and said: "O people! Who among the dwellers of the earth is deemed most honorable in the presence of Allah?" They said, "You." He continued: "And al-`Abbas is part of me, and I am part of him. Do not insult our dead, thereby harming our living." The people then came to the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - and said: "O Messenger of Allah! We seek refuge in Allah from your anger."2

    On the established position of the majority of Ahl al-Sunna and the totality of the Ash`ari school that the parents of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - are saved see the refutation of al-Jaza'iri by `Amrawi and Murad, Wa`iz Ghayr Mutta`iz ("A Heedless Admonisher"); al-Suyuti's fatwas in Majmu` Tis` Rasa'il and al-Hawi li al-Fatawa; Kabbani, Encyclopedia (2:143-159); and al-Barzanji, Sadad al-Din wa Sidad al-Dayn fi Najat al-Abawayn al-Sharifayn.

    Mulla `Ali al-Qari (d. 1014) did claim in his Sharh al-Fiqh al-Akbar, Mu`taqad Abi Hanifa, and Sharh al-Shifa' that the Maturidi position was the contrary. He was refuted harshly by the Friend of Allah and Faqih, Imam `Abd al-Qadir ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Tabari (d. 1022) during the latter's lessons in the Makkan Sanctuary.3 Al-Qari died - also in Makka - a few days later from a bad fall - Allah have mercy on him and forgive him.

    Al-Haytami in al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyya said that the reliable manuscripts of al-Fiqh al-Akbar do not contain the statement "The parents of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - died as disbelievers" and that therefore it should not be attributed to Imam Abu Hanifa. He also states that their salvation is asserted by Shaykh Muhyi al-Din Ibn `Arabi, on the bases of narrations in the two Sahihs on istifâ' and on the best of centuries. Al-Dhahabi in al-`Uluw attributes al-Fiqh al-Akbar to Abu Hanifa's student, Abu Muti` al-Hakam ibn `Abd Allah al-Balkhi, as mentioned by Shaykh Shu`ayb al-Arna'ut in his edition of Aqawil al-Thiqat (p. 63).

    Al-Qari's strongest evidence is the hadith in Sahih Muslim whereby the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - said, upon being asked by a man about the fate of his father: "Your father is in the Fire." As the man was walking away the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - called him back and added: "Both my father and your father are in the Fire."

    However, Muslim cites three different wordings for this hadith, each with a different chain. Only one out of the three contains the words "My father" and its chain contains (a) Thabit al-Bunani from whom Ayyub al-Sakhtyani did not narrate - as mentioned by al-Dhahabi in his Mizan - and whom Ibn `Adi mentioned in his compendium of weak narrators because of some denounced narrations imputed not to him, but by weak narrators from him; and ( Hammad ibn Salama because of whose memory lapses al-Bukhari did not retain his narrations, as mentioned by Ibn Hajar in his introduction to Fath al-Bari and by other Imams of hadith such as al-Bayhaqi and Ibn Rajab.4

    Also in affirmation of the salvation of the two Noble Parents and in refutation of al-Qari there is the book by Imam al-Barzanji (d. 1103), Sadad al-Din, perhaps the most complete reference-work on the topic. Al-Barzanji states (p. 108-109) the same as al-Haytami, but in reference to al-Fiqh al-Absat. He cites (p. 80) from Ibn `Asakir's Tarikh Dimashq the report that the rightly-guided Caliph, `Umar ibn `Abd al-`Aziz ordered that a certain man be put to death for saying that the father of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - was a mushrik.

    Al-Shawkani (d. 1250) in al-Badr al-Tali` defended al-Qari whom he characterized as a mujtahid persecuted for his independent views - an unmistakable reference to himself! The only school that still defends al-Qari's hapless stand on the question today is the "Salafi"/Wahhabi school in the person of Mashhur Salman who recirculated al-Qari's Mu`taqad, and the late Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri.

    Al-Jaza'iri's books achieved fame as they are heavily marketed by his Wahhabi sponsors, and he was thus able to spread far and wide the usual anti-Ash`arism of the Wahhabi school as well as the type of deviant doctrine and dubious ethics illustrated by the following excerpts:

    1. "Supplicating the saints (du`â' al-sâlihîn) [sic], seeking their help (al-istighâtha bihim), and seeking means through their status (al-tawassul bi jâhihim) never ever constituted an act of drawing near to Allah in the Religion of Allah Most High nor a righteous deed which one might use as a means, but are only prohibited polytheism (shirk) in the worship of Allah, due to which their perpetrator leaves the Religion and must endure in Hellfire forever."5

    2. "And who is `Abd al-Salam ibn Mashish [al-Shadhili's teacher]?? ... if the import of his words were not pure disbelief, it is absurd and meaningless elucubration. ... They [Sufis] take as their lead ... the practice of the people of all misguidances (ahl al-dalâlât) and their sayings such as al-Nabahani, al-Sha`rani, Dahlan" etc.6

    He attacked Sufis and tasawwuf as the reason why the Muslims lost in their struggle against European colonialism, although he himself took to his heels and did not lift a finger to fight it alongside his Algerian countrymen at the time of Algeria's struggle for independence from the French! As for the worn out lie of anti-Sufis that tasawwuf is antithetical to Jihad, it has been once and for all disproved in the current resistance of Sufi Chechen fighters to the savage Russian offensive against Chechnya, the self-sacrificing resistance of the Sufi Shaykhs of Turkey to the arch-enemy of Islam, Mustafa Kamal, as well as countless books on the Sufi mujahidin of North and Central Africa, Central Asia and the Soviet Union as chronicled in As`ad al-Khatib's al-Butula wa al-Fida' `inda al-Sufiyya B.G. Martin's Muslim Brotherhoods in Nineteenth Century Africa, Benningsen's Mystics and Commissars for the role of Sufis in preserving Islam in the Soviet Union, and Lion of Daghestan.

    In his book Wa Ja'u Yarkudun which he wrote in response to the reactions of the Ulema to the attack mounted against al-Maliki, al-Jaza'iri accused the Sufis of celebrating Mawlid "with entertainment, eating and drinking, with tens of heads of cattle slaughtered `in the name of the Sayyid' and `over the Sayyid' and `for the sake of the Sayyid' with full mixing between the sexes, singing, dancing and wild affirmations."7 Al-`Amrawi and Murad responded: "Not at all, O scrupulous and Godwary man, we do not permit what you claim we do. Nor do we practice it. Nor do we approve of it. We disapprove of it. Therefore, why do you accuse us of it? Have you seen it in any of our books? Have you seen us do it? Has someone told you that we did? “O believers! If a corrupt person comes to You with news, investigate it” (49:6).8

    It is also reported that he once said, "The meat slaughtered for feeding people on the occasion of Mawlid is more haram than swine." Such misguided fatwas are apt illustrations of the face of extremism.

    Al-Jaza'iri wrote the book Ila al-Tasawwuf ya `Ibad Allah ("Run to Tasawwuf, O servants of Allah") which he directed against the Tijani Tariqa and which was soundly refuted by Shaykh Ahmad al-Qat`ani with his 1992 al-Hujja al-Mu`tah fi al-Radd `ala Sahib Kitab ila al-Tasawwuf ya `Ibad Allah ("The Practical Demonstration in Refuting the Author of the Book `Run to Tasawwuf'").

    In his 1998 book Al-Gharaniq: Qissatun Dakhilatun `ala al-Sirati al-Nabawiyya ("The Cranes: A Story Interpolated into the Prophetic Sira"), Salih Ahmad al-Shami notes that al-Jaza'iri in his book Hadha al-Habib advocates the position that the story of the Cranes is absolutely authentic and that the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - was in fact misled by Satan to recite verses that not only do not belong to the Qur'an, but also call for the intercession of pagan divinities together with Allah Most High. It is noteworthy that among the early sects, the Kharijis were also known to attribute the possibility of major sins to Prophets.

    Al-Jaza'iri was given the opportunity to make a commentary on the Qur'an that might be a substitute and rival to the celebrated Tafsir al-Jalalayn of al-Mahalli and al-Suyuti. The public was then misled to believe that they were one and the same book so as to ensure its propagation.

    "Only those invent falsehood who believe not the revelations of Allah - and they are the liar" (16:105).

    NOTES

    1Al-Jaza'iri, Wa Ja'u Yarkudun (p. 116).

    2Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by Ahmad and al-Nasa'i with a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya'.

    3`Abd al-Qadir al-Tabari is mentioned in Khulasat al-Athar (2:456-457), al-A`lam (4:44), and the Hanafi compendium Tarb al-Amathil (p. 513 #255) although he was Shafi`i.

    4Cf. Ibn Hajar in al-Taqrib and al-Arna'ut and Ma`ruf in Tahrir al-Taqrib (2:318-319 #1499).

    5Al-Jaza'iri, `Aqidat al-Mu'min (p. 144).

    6Al-Jaza'iri, Wa Ja'u Yarkudun (p. 51, 11).

    7Al-Jaza'iri, Wa Ja'u Yarkudun (p. 130-131).

    8`Amrawi and Murad, Wa`iz Ghayr Mutta`iz (p. 92-93).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    Note - Dr Haddad claimed that al-Jazairi died in 1999, but i doubt that. It seems he is still alive and he was attacked (around 2002) by the above named Falih al-Harbi.

    Let me quote a well know pseudo-Salafi: Moosa Richardson on al-Jaza'iri:

    ------------------------------
    Does anyone know if there are some problems with the book Minhaj Al-Muslim or it's author?

    Barak Allahu Feekum!

    ***

    The author of the mentioned book is Aboo Bakr Jaabir Al-Jazaa'iree. Shaykh Faalih Al-Harabee, may Allaah preserve him, said about him, just recently (and the brother Abul-Hasan is translating the whole thing in shaa' Allaah - here's just one paragraph):

    و هو واعظ كذلك عندنا ، و لم يكن عالم من العلماء و لا عرفناه بفقه ، و لا بمعرفة منهج أهل السنة ،
    و لا بالدراسة على أهل العلم هنا في هذه البلاد أهل السنة و أهل المنهج السلفي ، و بقي على ما هو عليه واعظ بقي واعظا ثم نعم ،، كان رئيسا لجماعة جهيمان ثم فيما بعد تفرقت الأمور و الصفوف و انتهت الرئــاسة و بقي هو على ما هو عليه ، و بقي يناصر أهل البدع و يناصر جماعة التبليغ ، و يقول الشيء و ضده ! ، و يكتب ما يكتب مما أشرنا إليه و يزوِّد جماعة التبليغ و يثني عليها إلى الآن على انها لا يوجد مثلها على وجه الأرض ، و رد عليه الشيخ جمود التويجري و رد عليه الناس ، و رددنا عليه .
    و يصِّر إلى الآن حتى قال عنها بأنها مستشفى متنقل ، لما بلغ هذا للشيخ ربيع قال : (( مستشفى إيدز متنقل !! )) و مع ذلك هو على ما هو عليه و ذلك من جهله و لتخبطه ، و هو ليس من أهل العلم

    "...He is a waa'ith (an admonisher/preacher) as far as we are concerned. He is not an 'aalim from the scholars, nor do we know him to have fiqh or an understanding of the manhaj of Ahlus-Sunnah, nor do we know him to have studied under the people of knowledge here in these lands, (under) the people of the Sunnah, the people of the Salafee manhaj. So he remained just as he was, a waa'ith (preacher), just a waa'ith.

    And yes, he was the head of the Juhaymaan group[1], then afterwards those affairs got split up, the ranks divided, and the leadership ended, and he remained just as he was. He continued assisting the people of innovation, assisting Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh, saying one thing and then opposing it! He wrote what he wrote, as I have alluded to previously, and gives assistance to Jamaa'ah At-Tableegh and praises them even until today, saying that there does not exist anything like it (Jamaa'ah At-Tableegh) on the face of the earth.

    Shaykh Hamood At-Tuwayjuree and others have refuted him, and we have refuted him, but he continues to this day, to the point that he has even said they are a "moving hospital." When this reached Shaykh Rabee', he said, "a moving AIDS hospital!!"

    With all of this, he is still upon what he is on, and that is due to his ignorance and instability, and he is not from the people of knowledge..."

    from: http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...um=6&Topic=417


    [1] Juhaymaan and his followers took over the Ka'bah for a short time in the year 1979, causing a great amount of Muslim blood to spill inside the Haram itself.

    Moosaa

    ********************
    سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
    أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
    أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

    This message was edited by Moosaa on 10-29-02 @ 8:34 AM

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Wassalam


    Abul Hasan


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    Assalam

    Br. Faqir have you checked the references or is it copy and paste from an external webpage

    Allaah Knows Best
    None has the right to be worshipped but Allaah


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    Asalamu alaykum,

    Akhi Abul Hasan, the link to the second post is provided. If you look through the book at http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna.htm the author is quoting salafi favoured sources throughout for obvious reasons.......

    As for the first post above - the references to the Hadith are included for anyone to check - I have seen many of the hadith myself in the sources cited - they are also mentioned in The Reliance of the Traveller.


    Another interesting quote:

    Hafiz Ibn Tayimiah:

    "There is no doubt that they are aware of the living that visit them."

    He quoted the following in support:

    "The proof of dead awareness comes from two Sahih Books of Bukhari and Muslim in which Rasool Allah s.w. said that when people have buried a dead person and leave for home, the dead can hear the thumps of sandaled feet of those who leave."

    Majmuaat-al-Fatawa by Hafiz Ibne Taymiyyah, vol. 24, page 362

    Read also on this subject:

    http://sunnah.org/publication/fajr/fajr.htm

    Touching on the issue of whether dead people hear or not, our view is as follows. It is well known that hearing in living people is actually a property of spirit (al-Ruh). The ear is only an organ or rather instrument of hearing, nothing more. Since the spirit of the dead person does not become extinct with the extinction of his body, the belief that the spirit hears is not farfetched. One cannot claim that it does not hear due to loss of the organ of hearing by reason of the body's perishing. For we say that it sometimes hears even without that organ just as in visions. Thus, the spirit talks and hears in its sleep just as it sees in dreams without mediation of an instrument, that is, an organ of sensation. Then, is it too much for the rational person, after experiencing sound and sight in one's sleep by the sole means of the spirit and without the slightest participation of the organs of sound and sight, to believe that after the spirit separates from the body it hears and sees even without the organs of sound and sight?



    Yet and still, the Wahhabis do not extend their denial that the dead can hear to martyrs because Allah says: "Do not consider those who are slain for Allah's sake dead, but they are alive receiving sustenance with their Lord" (3:169). There is no doubt that the rank of prophets is not beneath the rank of martyrs: they, like them, are alive with their Lord, receiving sustenance. It has been narrated that the Prophet said: "I passed by Musa on the night of my Journey while he was praying in his grave."[79] And on the authority of Anas the Prophet said: "Prophets are alive in their graves [praying]."[80] Abu Ya`la al-Mawsili and al-Bazzar relate this. On the authority of Ibn `Umar the Prophet said: "I saw Jesus, Moses, and Abraham, on them be peace." This is related by Bukhari, Muslim and Imam Malik in his Muwatta'. Abu Bakr Ahmad Ibn Husayn al-Bayhaqi recorded in Shu`ab al-Iman on the authority of Abu Hurayra that the Prophet said: "Whoever sends blessings on me at my grave, I will hear him, and whoever sends blessings on me from afar, I am informed about it."[81] Therefore, if the premise prophets are alive is affirmed, then, one must also affirm the premise prophets can hear; for hearing is a concomitant property of life.



    It is incorrect to invoke the fact that since the life of prophets and martyrs in the barzakh or "isthmus life" is different from the life of this world they cannot hear. Even if we grant that the two lives are each of a different kind, nevertheless affirming "They are alive" with any kind of life is sufficient to establish that they hear and that their tawassul and supplication for help follows as a matter of course.



    Finally, the organ of hearing itself, in prophets, is not voided by death: for their bodies do not suffer the corruption of the grave as we know from the noble hadith: "Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of Prophets."[82] If we were to slacken the reins and say it is true that the bodies of prophets undergo corruption in their graves as the Wahhabis claim, having already affirmed that they are alive and receiving sustenance (3:169), then, this would simply count as affirmation that they hear even though they lack an organ for this purpose according to the view we expounded above.



    We have abundant evidence in hadith which provide evidence that other than prophets and martyrs among the dead can hear. Cited by Bukhari and Muslim and the narrators of the Sunan is the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn `Umar who said: "The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."" And in Bukhari and Muslim we find the hadith of Anas on the authority of Abu Talha that the Prophet called to them: "O Abu Jahl Ibn Hisham! O Umayya Ibn Khalaf! O `Utba ibn Rabi`a! Have you not found out that what your Lord promised you is true? for I have found that what he has promised me is true." `Umar said to him: "O Messenger of Allah, how do you address bodies devoid of spirit?" The Prophet replied: "By Him Who holds my life in His Hands! You do not hear what I am saying to them better than they do." Similarly, it has been affirmed in Bukhari and Muslim on the authority of Anas that the Prophet said: "Surely, when the servant of Allah is placed in his grave and his companions in this life turn away from it, he hears the thumps of their sandaled feet."[83]



    Abu Nu`aym Al-Isbahani has mentioned with his chain of transmission from `Ubayd Ibn Marzuq who said: "A woman of Madina, named Umm Mihjan, used to sweep the mosque, then she died. The Prophet was not told of this event. Thereafter, he passed over her grave and queried: "What is this?" Those present replied: "Umm Mihjan." He said: "The one who swept the mosque?" They answered: "Yes." Thereupon the people lined up and prayed for her. Then he addressed her: "Which work of yours did you find more favored?" They exclaimed: "O Messenger of Allah, can she hear you?" He replied: "You cannot hear better than she does." Then it is mentioned that she answered him: "Sweeping the mosque." The chain of transmission in this hadith is interrupted. There are others more like it.[84]



    It is narrated concerning `A'isha, may Allah be pleased with her, when she heard the hadith about the dead hearing, she denied it and said: "How does the Prophet say something like that when Allah has said: "You cannot make those to hear who are in the graves" (35:22). While her opinion does not affirm the hearing of the dead as Ibn Taymiyya notes in his Legal Opinions (Fatawa) and in other places, we have no excuse for following it. For the question necessarily concerns a well-known matter of faith which no one has permission to deny. In fact `A'isha has also narrated that the Prophet said, as Ibn Rajab has noted in Ahwal al-Qubur: "Surely they know now that what I said to them is true." This narration of hers supports those which say that the dead hear, for if it is possible for a dead man to know, surely it is possible for him also to hear. Therefore, to affirm that they do know is necessarily also to affirm that they hear.



    As for the Qur'anic verses: "You cannot make those who are in the graves hear" (35:22) and: "You cannot make the dead hear..." (27:80) there is no evidence in them for the denial of hearing in the case of the dead in the absolute sense, it is only evidence for denying hearing for those who benefit thereof.[85] That is because what is meant by the phrase: "Those in the graves" in the first verse and by "the dead" in the second verse are the unbelievers, who are compared to the dead lying in their graves. Just as the dead do not hear with a beneficial kind of hearing -- that is, with a hearing made complete by the mutual exchange of address between the hearer and the speaker -- in the same way the unbelievers do not hear the warning signs that the Prophet addresses to them in a way that benefits them by guiding them to faith in Allah.



    What otherwise confirms the above is that unqualified hearing is also an established attribute of the unbelievers: they hear what the Prophet said to them; but they derived no benefit from it. This is confirmed by Allah's saying: "If Allah had recognized in them any good, He would, indeed, have made them hear: if He made them hear (as it stands), they would turn away" (8:23). Hence, what is meant by "hear" when He says "He would indeed have made them hear" is a hearing which brings benefit to the hearer and when He says: "If He made them hear (as it stands)" He means hearing which carries no benefit. If this were otherwise, the sense of the passage would be corrupt inasmuch as the verse would, then, be a syllogism where the middle term (He makes them hear) is reiterated; the end result would be: "If Allah had recognized any good in them, they would have turned away." This conclusion is absurd and contradictory, as you can see, since it would entail that the turning back take place -- which is evil -- despite the fact that Allah recognized good in them. Allah's recognition would be, in that case, a misrecognition with respect to the true state of the unbelievers -- Exalted is Allah high above such a possibility.



    The above cited two verses point to a further meaning: that what is meant by the hearing negated in both cases is the hearing connected with the faculty of guidance just as the context of the two verses indicate. The meaning then is that you do not guide the unbelievers by yourself, O Muhammad! because they are like dead men and that you cannot cause the dead to hear by yourself. The only agent causing them to hear is Allah as the Qur'an says: "You do not guide whom you like but Allah guides whom he wishes" (28:56).



    One does not say: "Just as the one making the dead to hear in reality is Allah, likewise, the one making the living to hear is in reality none other than He." For Allah is the Creator of all actions whatsoever, just as the true doctrine on the matter teaches. What, then, is the motivation for illustrating Allah's agency with the hearing of the dead? What we say is this:



    1- The fact that Allah alone is the one making the dead to hear is a matter admitting of no ambiguity even for a blind man. As for His being the one causing the living to hear in reality, it is not said like that.[86] This is because one might falsely suppose that the Agent causing hearing in the one spoken to is the actual speaker, on the grounds that the hearing of the one spoken to directly follows the external voice issuing from the mouth of the person who addresses him. Hence to exemplify Allah's agency with the hearing of the living is improper. To give an example requires that its content be unambiguously clear; this is not the case in the category of living persons as we have explained.[87]



    2- Since the unbelievers were alive, to illustrate the fact that the Prophet cannot make them hear by comparing them to the living whom the Prophet cannot cause to hear comes close to fashioning a comparison between a thing and itself, as we find in that given by the poet who said:



    Surrounded as we are with water,

    We sit like people encircled by water.



    The Wahhabis respond, with regard to the hadith of the People of the Well, that the hearing experienced by the dead on the occasion when the Prophet questioned them was a miracle proper only to him. It does not count as evidence, they claim, that these dead were also capable of hearing the speech of someone else. The answer to this is that the miracle is not a miracle unless its manifestation is a phenomenon experienced by other persons like the speaking of pebbles. The Companions were hearing the voice of the pebbles glorifying Allah while they were being held in the palm of the Prophet's hand.[88] But it is impossible that the dead's hearing of the Prophet speaking to them be a miracle since it was not manifest to anyone but himself. Furthermore, the hadith reporting that the dead hear the thumping of sandaled feet (Bukhari and Muslim) contravenes such a phenomenon being a miracle in the case of the People of the Well. For it indicates that dead people also hear the talk of other people besides the Prophet.



    The Wahhabis further respond that the object intended when the Prophet spoke to the dead was admonition of the living and not to cause an act of understanding on the part of the dead. The answer to this is that if the intended object of his speech was admonition of the living, why did `Umar ask: "How do you speak to bodies devoid of spirit?" out of astonishment at his speaking to them? I do not believe that fatuousness has pushed the Wahhabis to the point of thinking that after almost three-quarters of a millennium they understand what the Prophet meant better than his Companion, `Umar. Besides, the answer the Prophet gave by itself constitutes denial that what he aimed at was admonition because he replied: "You do not hear better than they." This answer is obviously not suitable as an admonition. On the contrary, it is a clear rejection of `Umar's sense of farfetchedness in the Prophet's behavior and astonishment because of it.



    The Wahhabis, finally, answer that the Prophet only spoke to the dead out of personal conviction that they hear. Thereafter, they claim, the two verses of the Qur'an were revealed to correct his belief. The response to this is that it is unallowable that the Prophet believed anything like that of his own accord. On the contrary, it came about necessarily in virtue of revelation and inspiration from his Lord. Allah said of him: "He does not speak of his own desire" (53:3). This is especially the case since he did not arrive at his knowledge of the matter by merely exercising his faculty of reason. Rather, it came about by way of revelation and inspiration as we have said.



    One piece of evidence that indicates that Allah quickens the dead in their graves so that they hear is His statement retelling the avowal of those who said: "Our Lord, twice hast Thou put us to death and twice hast Thou quickened us" (40:11). For what is meant by the first putting to death is the putting to death before resting in the grave. What is meant in the case of the other is the putting to death after resting in the grave. If Allah did not give life in the graves a second time, it would be impossible to put to death a second time. The Wahhabis answer this by saying that the first putting to death is the state of nonexistence prior to creation and the second putting to death is after creation. In truth, this is amusing even for children because putting to death can take place only after the occurrence of life and there is no life prior to Allah's creation of life. As for their response that the first putting to death is the putting to death of people after their life in the world of atoms, it is weaker than the first answer. People in the world of atoms were no different than spirits which Allah created and asked: "Am I not your Lord? and they answered, saying: Yes!" (7:172). Moreover, the reader knows that death is defined as a separation of the soul from the body. Hence, there is no death prior to embodiment, although it is possible for Allah to annihilate spirits after creating them. But that has nothing to do with death as we have just defined it.



    Finally, the Wahhabiyya usher forth evidence for the incapacity of dead people to hear on the basis of a legal ruling of the Shari`a that ulama apply in the case where a man performs certain acts using such words as: "If I address X, my wife is divorced" -- or: "my slave-girl is free." Now, if that man speaks to X after his death, then the divorce is invalid and the act of manumission null. They conclude that the basis of nullity and voidness is the fact that dead person lacks the faculty of hearing.



    We refuse to grant that the basis of the ruling for the ulama is the absence of hearing on the part of the dead. On the contrary, they base themselves on what they know of custom, namely that it routinely makes the stipulating of oaths like the above, conditional on life. The whole benefit of speaking is the mutual exchange of communication, which does not place when one party of the communication is dead. Conversing with a dead person, therefore, does not qualify as speech only inasmuch as his death renders him powerless to respond -- not because he is powerless to hear.
    [79]A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas and others by Muslim, Nasa'i, Bayhaqi in the Dala'il al-nubuwwa and the Hayat al-anbiya, and Suyuti in Anba' al-adhkya' and Sharh al-sudur. Nawawi said in his commentary on this hadith: "The work of the next world is all dhikr and du`a" (Sharh Sahih Muslim 1/73/267).

    [80]A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (r) by al-Bazzar in his Musnad, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Ibn `Adi in al-Kamil fi al-du`afa', Tammam al-Razi in al-Fawa'id, al-Bayhaqi in Hayat al-anbiya' fi quburihim, Abu Nu`aym in Akhbar Asbahan, Ibn `Asakir in Tarikh Dimashq, al-Haythami in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:211), al-Suyuti in Anba' al-adhkiya' bi-hayat al-anbiya' (#5), and al-Albani, in Silsilat al-ahadith al-sahihah (#621). Suyuti adds: "The life of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and give him peace, in his grave, and [also] that of the rest of the prophets is known to us as definitive knowledge (`ilman qat`iyyan)." Sakhawi, Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani's student, said: "As for us (Muslims) we believe and we confirm that he (s) is alive and provided for in his grave" (al-Qawl al-badi` p. 161). Ibn al-Qayyim said in Kitab al-Ruh p. 58: "It is obligatory knowledge to know that his body (s) is in the earth tender and humid (i.e. as in life), and when the Companions asked him: 'How is our greeting presented to you after you have turned to dust' he replied: 'Allah has defended the earth from consuming the flesh of Prophets,' and if his body were not in his grave he would not have given this answer."

    [81]Abu al-Shaykh cites it in Kitab al-Salat `ala al-nabi ("Jala' al-afham" p. 22), and Ibn Hajar says in Fath al-Bari (6:379): "Abu al-Shaykh cites it with a good chain (sanad jayyid)." Bayhaqi mentions it in Hayat al-anbiya and Shu`ab al-iman (2:218 #1583).

    [82]A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Aws ibn Aws al-Thaqafi by: Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Abi Shaybah in the Musannaf, Abu Dawud in the Sunan, Nisa'i in his Sunan, Ibn Majah in his Sunan, Darimi in his Musnad, Ibn Khuzaymah in his Sahih, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Hakim in the Mustadrak, Tabarani in his Kabir, Bayhaqi in Hayat al-anbiya', Suyuti in Anba' al-adkhiya, Dhahabi who confirmed al-Hakim's grading, and Nawawi in the Adhkar. Another version in Ibn Majah has this addition: "And the Prophet of Allah is alive and provided for (fa nabiyyullahi hayyun yurzaq)." Bayhaqi mentions it also in the Sunan al-kubra.

    [83]See also the "Chapter on the Proofs Used to Establish the Knowledge that the Dead Hear in the Graves" in Ibn al-Qayyim's al-Ruh and similar chapters in Suyuti's Sharh al-sudur, Ibn al-Kharrat's al-`Aqiba, Ibn Rajab's Ahwal al-qubur, Subki's Shifa' al-siqam and others.

    [84]Ibn Hajar says in al-Isaba (8:187): "Mihjana, also named Umm Mihjan: a black woman who used to sweep the mosque [in Madina]. She is mentioned in the books of sound (sahih) hadith but without being named."

    [85]See Ibn Qayyim's section "That the Hearing of the Dead is Real" in Al-Ruh (Madani ed. 1984) p. 59: "The actual meaning of these verses (35:22 and 27:80) is: You cannot make those hear whom Allah does not wish to hear, for you are only a Warner. That is: Allah has only given you the ability to warn, for which he has made you responsible; not that of making those to hear whom Allah does not wish to hear."

    [86]I.e. it is inappropriate to use such terms.

    [87]Zahawi's point is that Allah highlighted the power to make the dead hear in the Qur'an as an example of His agency, because in the case of the dead, His agency is more evident to the mind than in the case of the living, although He equally effects the hearing of both the living and the dead.

    [88]Hadith of Abu Dharr related by Haythami in "Majma` al-zawa'id" with a sound (sahih) chain, chapter entitled `Alamat al-nubuwwa (Signs of Prophethood): "The Prophet took pebbles and they glorified Allah in his hand; he put them down and they became silent..."

    عن عائشة قالت‏:‏ كنت أدخل بيتي الذي فيه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وأبي فأضع ثوبي فأقول‏:‏
    إنما هو زوجي وأبي، فلما دفن عمر معهم فوالله ما دخلته إلا وأنا مشدودة علي ثيابي حياء من عمر رضي الله عنه‏.‏
    رواه أحمد ورجاله رجال الصحيح


    It is narrated by Ayesha that she entered her home, which is inside the masjid un-Nabiyy where the prophet is buried and her father Abu bakr as-Saddiq and she stated; ‘that this is but my husband and my father’.

    However when Umar ibn al-Khattab was buried next to them, she stated: ‘that she would make sure that her garment coverings were placed exceptional because she was shy of Umar.

    This (saheeh) report is narrated from Imam Ahmad and in Majmu’a Zawaa’id book 8 pg. 26.

    Also narrated by al-Hakeem and imam Dhahabi confirms that it is Saheeh.

    This report confirms that the sahaba believed that the dead could see us in this world from the life of barzakh. Taken from shaykh abdul hadi al-kursa ash-shami's book called as-silaahul haqq baynal haqq wa batila
    Last edited by faqir; 14-02-2006 at 09:31 PM.
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Quote Originally Posted by Abul Hasan


    I am not sure if the author you quoted really knows the reality of al-Jaza'iri. He is a pseudo-Salafi, who was hated even by some of his own; Like: Falih al-Harbi. This al-Harbi himself has recently been dropped from the list of so called major Ulama of the Wahhabiyya by spubs.com, and has been exposed by their Imam: Rabi al-Madkhali!
    Here ya go
    v
    v
    SalafiTalk.Net » Affairs of Manhaj
    » Faaleh Attributes Irjaa To Shaykh Al-Albaanee And That Shaykh Rabee' Took That From Him!

    Irja' Link>>>Click Here For Link To Full Article On Sahab.net And Where The Contradictory
    Ibrahim al-Harbi said, ‘I heard Ahmad Ibn Hanbal say, ‘If you love that Allah should keep you upon that which you love, then remain upon that which He loves, and the good is in the one who sees no good in himself.”

    Refer to al-adab shariah (2/31) by Ibn Muflih


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    Senior Member faqir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abul Hasan


    I am not sure if the author you quoted really knows the reality of al-Jaza'iri.

    Could it be Akhi that he was referring to the Shaykh al-Jazari who died in 833 and is mentioned in the quote you have given in the thread about Imam Shawkani? [just a wild guess]

    Also, have you got access to a detailed study of the hadith in question [Arabic or English]?
    Last edited by faqir; 04-03-2005 at 06:15 PM.
    Imam al-Zarqani said in his book Manahil al-Irfan: 'Our Scholars agreed that if a word carries 99 aspects of disbelief and one aspect of faith, it must be interpreted according to the best of meanings, which is faith'.

    Visit www.asharis.wordpress.com and the Marifah website


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    Salamu Alaikum

    Assalam

    Br. Faqir have you checked the references or is it copy and paste from an external webpage

    Allaah Knows Best

    HADITH 1:

    Abu Umama said,

    "When I die, do with me as the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam) ordered us, saying, 'When one of your brothers dies and you have smoothed over the earth upon his grave, let one of you stand at the head of the grave and say, "O So and so Son of So and so" for he will hear, though he cannot reply - and then say, "O So and So, son of So and so," and he will say, "Direct me, Allah have mercy upon you mercy on you," though you will not hear it, but should say, "Remember the creed upon which you departed from this world, the testification that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His slave and messenger, and that you accepted Allah as your Lord, Islam as your religion, Muhammad as your prophet, and the Koran as your exemplar." For then the two angels Munkar and Nakir will take each other's hand and say, "Let us go, what is there to keep us beside someone who has been instructed how to make his plea?"

    A Man said, "O Messenger of Alllah, what if one does not know the name of his mother?" and he answered, 'Then one should mention his descent from his mother Eve, saying, "O so and so son of Eve"


    Tabarani related this hadith in his al-Mu'jam al kabir and Ibn Hajar al Asqalani has said that "its transmission is sound" [Talkhis al-habir fi takhrij ahadith al-Rafi'i al-kabir],
    Arabic for the above hadith from Imam Ibn Hajars Talkhis, Vol 2, # 796:

    عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم الطبراني عن أبي أمامة إذا أنا مت فاصنعوا بي كما أمرنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أن نصنع بموتانا أمرنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال إذا مات أحد من إخوانكم فسويتم التراب على قبره فليقم أحدكم على رأس قبره ثم ليقل يا فلان بن فلانة فإنه يسمعه ولا يجيب ثم يقول يا فلان بن فلانة فإنه يستوي قاعدا ثم يقول يا فلان بن فلانة فإنه يقول أرشدنا يرحمك الله ولكن لا تشعرون فليقل اذكر ما خرجت عليه من الدنيا شهادة أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدا عبده ورسوله وأنك رضيت بالله ربا وبالإسلام دينا وبمحمد نبيا وبالقرآن إماما فإن منكرا ونكيرا يأخذ كل واحد منهما بيد صاحبه ويقول انطلق بنا ما يقعدنا عند من لقن حجته قال فقال رجل يا رسول الله فإن لم يعرف أمه قال ينسبه إلى أمه حواء يا فلان بن حواء

    وإسناده صالح


    Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0220: Narrated Amr ibn al-'As:

    Ibn Shamasah said: We went to Amr ibn al-'As and he was about to die. He wept for a long time and turned his face towards the wall. His son said: Did the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) not give you tidings of this? Did the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) not give you tidings of this? He (the narrator) said: He turned his face (towards the audience) and said: The best thing which we can count upon is the testimony that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Verily I have passed through three phases.
    It is mentioned in Ibn Hajars Talkhis (in the same section as the previous hadith):

    وفي صحيح مسلم عن عمرو بن العاص أنه قال لهم في حديث عند موته إذا دفنتموني أقيموا حول قبري قدر ما ينحر جزور ويقسم لحمها حتى أستأنس بكم وأعلم ماذا أراجع رسل ربي وقد تقدم حديث واسألوا له التثبت فإنه الآن يسأل

    In Sahih Muslim itself:

    ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏محمد بن المثنى العنزي ‏ ‏وأبو معن الرقاشي ‏ ‏وإسحق بن منصور ‏ ‏كلهم ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي عاصم ‏ ‏واللفظ ‏ ‏لابن المثنى ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏الضحاك يعني أبا عاصم ‏ ‏قال أخبرنا ‏ ‏حيوة بن شريح ‏ ‏قال حدثني ‏ ‏يزيد بن أبي حبيب ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن شماسة المهري ‏ ‏قال ‏
    ‏حضرنا ‏ ‏عمرو بن العاص ‏ ‏وهو ‏ ‏في سياقة ‏ ‏الموت فبكى طويلا وحول وجهه إلى الجدار فجعل ابنه يقول يا أبتاه أما بشرك رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏بكذا أما بشرك رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏بكذا قال فأقبل بوجهه فقال إن أفضل ما نعد شهادة أن لا إله إلا الله وأن ‏ ‏محمدا رسول الله ‏ ‏إني كنت على أطباق ثلاث لقد رأيتني وما أحد أشد بغضا لرسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏مني ولا أحب إلي أن أكون قد استمكنت منه فقتلته فلو مت على تلك الحال لكنت من أهل النار فلما جعل الله الإسلام في قلبي أتيت النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فقلت ابسط يمينك فلأبايعك فبسط يمينه قال فقبضت يدي قال ما لك يا ‏ ‏عمرو ‏ ‏قال قلت أردت أن أشترط قال تشترط بماذا قلت أن يغفر لي قال ‏ ‏أما علمت أن الإسلام يهدم ما كان قبله وأن الهجرة تهدم ما كان قبلها وأن الحج يهدم ما كان قبله وما كان أحد أحب إلي من رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏ولا أجل في عيني منه وما كنت أطيق أن أملأ عيني منه إجلالا له ولو سئلت أن أصفه ما أطقت لأني لم أكن أملأ عيني منه ولو مت على تلك الحال لرجوت أن أكون من أهل الجنة ثم ولينا أشياء ما أدري ما حالي فيها فإذا أنا مت فلا تصحبني نائحة ولا نار فإذا دفنتموني ‏ ‏فشنوا ‏ ‏علي التراب شنا ثم أقيموا حول قبري قدر ما تنحر ‏ ‏جزور ‏ ‏ويقسم لحمها حتى أستأنس بكم وأنظر ماذا أراجع به رسل ربي

    See: كون الإسلام يهدم ما قبله وكذا الهجرة والحج الإيمان صحيح مسلم


    Hafiz ibn Taymiyya writes:

    "In the time of a drought, a person came to our Prophet's grave and complained about the drought. He then saw our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) who told him to go to 'Umar and tell him to perform the salat of Istisqah.There are numerous true narrations similar to this"

    [Iqtisa Sirat al Mustaqim, page 373. Imam Bukhari has also discussed this in his book, Ta'rikh al Kabir, under the 'Biography of Malik ad-Dar']
    Tarikh Al Kabir by Imam Bukhari, Vol 7:

    [ 1295 ] مالك بن عياض الدار أن عمر قال في قحط يا رب لا آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه قاله علي عن محمد بن خازم عن أبي صالح عن مالك الدار

    The fourth narrator of this Hadith is Malik ibn Ayyaz Aldar. Imam Bukhari writes:
    See previous note for what Imam Bukhari said.

    Tabqat ibn Sa'd, Vol 5 says:

    مالك الدار مولى عمر بن الخطاب وقد انتموا إلى جبلان من حمير وروى مالك الدار عن أبي بكر الصديق وعمر رحمهما الله روى عنه أبو صالح السمان وكان معروفا

    Wasalam
    May My Soul be sacrificed for your soul, my beloved, my master Muhammad - peace and blessing upon you- !

    روحي لروحك الفداء يا حبيبي يا سيدي محمد


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    Quote Originally Posted by faqir

    Could it be Akhi that he was referring to the Shaykh al-Jazari who died in 833 and is mentioned in the quote you have given in the thread about Imam Shawkani? [just a wild guess]

    Also, have you got access to a detailed study of the hadith in question [Arabic or English]?



    Nope! The one who died in 833 AH was al-Jazari the compiler of the famous Du'a book: Hisn al Hasin. The one quoted by the author from Bristol was Abu Bakr al JAZA'IRI - not al Jazari (mis-spelt). Because he quoted from his: "Waja a-Yarkudun". You may see that DR GF Haddad also quoted things from this same work ascribed to the one and same Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri...

    This Jaza'iri has been refuted in arabic and there is an English book which also exposes him (details later)

    Secondly, here is a Takhrij to the narration from Malik al-Dar i just put together from original works:

    The narration under discussion was mentioned from here as follows

    al-Bayhaqi relates with a sound (sahih) chain: It is related from Malik al-Dar, `Umar's treasurer, that the people suffered a drought during the successorship of `Umar, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah, ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished," after which the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: You must be clever, you must be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter said: "O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!" Ibn Kathir cites it thus from Bayhaqi in al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya and says: isnaduhu sahih;[25] Ibn Abi Shayba cites it in his Musannaf with a sound (sahih) chain as confirmed by Ibn Hajar who says: rawa Ibn Abi Shayba bi isnadin sahih and cites the hadith in Fath al-bari.[26] He identifies Malik al-Dar as `Umar's treasurer (khazin `umar) and says that the man who visited and saw the Prophet in his dream is identified as the Companion Bilal ibn al-Harith, and he counts this hadith among the reasons for Bukhari's naming of the chapter "The people's request to their leader for rain if they suffer drought." He also mentions it in al-Isaba, where he says that Ibn Abi Khaythama cited it.[27]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tawassul in Umar ibn al Khattab's time narration:

    From the Musannaf (12/31-32) of ibn Abi Shayba (d. 235 AH)

    مُصَنَّفُ ابْنِ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ >> كِتَابُ الْفَضَائِلِ >> مَا ذُكِرَ فِي فَضْلِ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ >>
    يَا رَبِّ لَا آلُو إِلَّا مَا عَجَزْتُ عَنْهُ *

    31380 حدثنا أبو معاوية ، عن الأعمش ، عن أبي صالح ، عن مالك الدار ، قال : وكان خازن عمر على الطعام ، قال : أصاب الناس قحط في زمن عمر ، فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : يا رسول الله ، استسق لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا ، فأتى الرجل في المنام فقيل له : " ائت عمر فأقرئه السلام ، وأخبره أنكم مستقيمون وقل له : عليك الكيس ، عليك الكيس " ، فأتى عمر فأخبره فبكى عمر ثم قال : يا رب لا آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه *


    From Imam al-Bayhaqi's Dala'il al-Nubuwwa (7/47)

    دَلَائِلُ النُّبُوَّةِ لِلْبَيْهَقِيِّ >> جُمَّاعُ أَبْوَابِ غَزْوَةِ تَبُوكَ >> جُمَّاعُ أَبْوَابِ مَنْ رَأَى فِي مَنَامِهِ شَيْئًا مِنْ آثَارِ نُبُوَّةِ مُحَمَّدٍ >> بَابُ مَا جَاءَ فِي رُؤْيَةِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي >>
    مَا آلُو إِلَّا مَا عَجَزْتُ عَنْهُ *


    2974 أخبرنا أبو نصر بن قتادة ، وأبو بكر الفارسي قالا : أخبرنا أبو عمرو بن مطر ، أخبرنا أبو بكر بن علي الذهلي ، أخبرنا يحيى ، أخبرنا أبو معاوية ، عن الأعمش ، عن أبي صالح ، عن مالك قال : أصاب الناس قحط في زمان عمر بن الخطاب ؛ فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : يا رسول الله , استسق الله لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا ؛ فأتاه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام ؛ فقال ائت عمر فأقرئه السلام ، وأخبره أنكم مسقون . وقل له : عليك الكيس الكيس . فأتى الرجل عمر ، فأخبره ، فبكى عمر ثم قال : يا رب ما آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه *


    From al-Irshad fi Ma'rifa Ulama al-Hadith of Hafiz al-Khalili (1/313-314)

    الْإِرْشَادُ فِي مَعْرِفَةِ عُلَمَاءِ الْحَدِيثِ لِلْخَلِيلِيِّ >>
    مَالِكُ الدَّارِ

    مالك الدار مولى عمر بن الخطاب الرعاء عنه : تابعي , قديم , متفق عليه , أثنى عليه التابعون , وليس بكثير الرواية , روى عن أبي بكر الصديق , وعمر , وقد انتسب ولده إلى جبلان ناحية . حدثني محمد بن أحمد بن عبدوس المزكي أبو بكر النيسابوري , حدثنا عبد الله بن محمد بن الحسن الشرقي , حدثنا محمد بن عبد الوهاب قال : قلت لعلي بن عثام العامري الكوفي : لم سمي مالك الدار ؟ فقال : الداري المتطيب . حدثنا محمد بن الحسن بن الفتح , حدثنا عبد الله بن محمد البغوي , حدثنا أبو خيثمة , حدثنا محمد بن خازم الضرير , حدثنا الأعمش , عن أبي صالح , عن مالك الدار ، قال : أصاب الناس قحط في زمان عمر بن الخطاب , فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : يا نبي الله , استسق الله لأمتك فرأى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام فقال : " ائت عمر , فأقرئه السلام , وقل له : إنكم مسقون , فعليك بالكيس الكيس " . قال : فبكى عمر , وقال : يا رب , ما آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه يقال : إن أبا صالح سمع مالك الدار هذا الحديث , والباقون أرسلوه


    Imam Ibn Kathir in al Bidaya wal Nihaya (7/106)


    وقال الحافظ أبو بكر البيهقي: أخبرنا أبو نصر بن قتادة، وأبو بكر الفارسي قالا: حدثنا أبو عمر بن مطر، حدثنا إبراهيم بن علي الذهلي، حدثنا يحيى بن يحيى، حدثنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن أبي صالح، عن مالك قال: أصاب الناس قحط في زمن عمر بن الخطاب، فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم.
    فقال: يا رسول الله استسق الله لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا.
    فأتاه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام فقال: إيت عمر، فأقرئه مني السلام، وأخبرهم أنه مسقون، وقل له عليك بالكيس الكيس.
    فأتى الرجل فأخبر عمر، فقال: يا رب ما آلوا إلا ما عجزت عنه.
    وهذا إسناد صحيح.


    Shaykh al-Islam al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani in al-Isaba fi Tamyiz al-Sahaba (3/484) :

    الإصابة - لابن حجر

    8362[ص:274] مالك بن عياض مولى عمر هو الذي يقال له مالك الدار له إدراك وسمع من أبي بكر الصديق وروى عن الشيخين ومعاذ وأبي عبيدة روى عنه أبو صالح السمان وابناه عون وعبدالله ابنا مالك وأخرج البخاري في التاريخ من طريق أبي صالح ذكوان عن مالك الدار أن عمر قال في قحوط المطر يا رب لا آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه وأخرجه بن أبي خيثمة من هذا الوجه مطولا قال أصاب الناس قحط في زمن عمر فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا رسول الله استسق الله لأمتك فأتاه النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام فقال له ائت عمر فقل له إنكم مستسقون فعليك الكفين قال فبكى عمر وقال يا رب ما آلوا إلا ما عجزت عنه وروينا في فوائد داود بن عمرو الضبي جمع البغوي من طريق عبدالرحمن بن سعيد بن يربوع المخزومي عن مالك الدار قال دعاني عمر بن الخطاب يوما فإذا عنده صرة من ذهب فيها أربعمائة دينار فقال اذهب بهذه إلى أبي عبيدة فذكر قصته وذكر بن سعد في الطبقة الأولى من التابعين في أهل المدينة قال روى عن أبي بكر وعمر وكان معروفا وقال أبو عبيدة ولاه عمر كيلة عيال عمر فلما قدم عثمان ولاه القسم فسمى مالك الدار وقال إسماعيل القاضي عن علي بن المديني كان مالك الدار خازنا لعمر.


    Hafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al Bari (2/495)


    وروى ابن أبي شيبة بإسناد صحيح من رواية أبي صالح السمان عن مالك الداري - وكان خازن عمر - قال " أصاب الناس قحط في زمن عمر فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال: يا رسول الله استسق لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا، فأتى الرجل في المنام فقيل له: ائت عمر " الحديث.
    وقد روى سيف في الفتوح أن الذي رأى المنام المذكور هو بلال بن الحارث المزني أحد الصحابة، وظهر بهذا كله مناسبة الترجمة لأصل هذه القصة أيضا والله الموفق.


    Imam ibn Abdal Barr in al-Isti’ab (2/464) under the biography of Umar ibn al Khattab (ra) said:

    وروى أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن أبي صالح عن مالك الدار قال‏:‏ أصاب الناس قحط في زمن عمر فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال‏:‏ يا رسول الله استسق لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا‏.‏
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Note: All of these Imams narrated it and not one of them weakened it let alone said it leads to Shirk as some of the innovators of this age claimed!

    In fact Imam ibn Hajar and Imam ibn Kathir explicitly declared its Isnad to be Sahih. Ibn Kathir in his recently published: Jami al-Masanid (1/223) - Musnad Umar - declared it as: "Isnaduhu Jayyid Qawi: ITS CHAIN OF TRANSMISSION IS GOOD AND STRONG!"

    Let the pseudo-Salafiyya take note - that this is the ruling of ibn Kathir in 2 places, and he was associated with Ibn Taymiyya.


    What i have never seen is any pseudo-Salafi comment on the following action of some well known Huffaz of Hadith:

    al-Hafiz Ibn al-Jawzi relates in Kitab al-Wafa (p. 818 #1536): (al-hafiz) Abu Bakr al-Minqari said: I was with (al-hafiz) al-Tabarani and (al-hafiz) Abu al-Shaykh in the Prophet's Mosque, in some difficulty. We became very hungry. That day and the next we didn't eat. When it was time for `isha, I came to the Prophet's grave and I said: "O Messenger of Allah, we are hungry, we are hungry" (ya rasullallah al-ju` al-ju`)! Then I left. Abu al-Shaykh said to me: Sit. Either there will be food for us, or death. I slept and Abu al-Shaykh slept. al-Tabarani stayed awake, researching something. Then an `Alawi (a descendant of `Ali) came knocking at the door with two boys, each one carrying a palm-leaf basket filled with food. We sat up and ate. We thought that the children would take back the remainder but they left everything behind. When we finished, the `Alawi said: O people, did you complain to the Prophet? I saw him in my sleep and he ordered me to bring something to you.
    ----------------------------------------

    Insha'allah I will endeavour to create a pdf file from our Shaykh Mahmud Mamduh's radd on al-Albani and other Mubtadi'in - from his 17 page defence of this specific narration (Malik al Dar's narration) in a few days, from his Raf al-Minara.

    Wassalam

    Abul Hasan


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    Assalaamu 3alaikum

    Masha-allah brother Abul hasan, what you have put up is really good and confirms what was posted in English. What i dont understand about these misguided innovators, is this; you present evidences and they still insist and try to say that you have manipulated the text even though one presents the texts in arabic. Whats the truth is this brother they find it hard to accept what is permissable in islam because of their sheer misguidance!

    I presented the same tradition to a brother and he said i manipulated it, since he was impotent to refute it. And whats the typical reponse; "oh well brother i am trying to be on the stance of precuation" which is nonsense! Whatever was good enough for the first three generations of Muslims, has to be good enough for us in this time! These are the same people chanting the slogan of following the salaf.

    Shaykh Abdul Hadi al-Kursa ash-Shami has an excellent book (which isnt very lengthy) on Tawassul and Hayyat un-Nabi fil Quboor called: as-Silaahul Haqq baynal Haqq wa batila (The Weapon of Truth between Truth and Falsehood). There is an english translation of it, although it needs editing thats what i think. Insha-allah i can scan up the Arabic and English, but brother Abul Hasan you are already going to use Shaykh Mahmud Mamduhs book alhamdulillah. So I would be looking forward to see that insha-allah.

    If some of these Huffaz of Hadeeth were present today these innovators would accuse them of shirk as well!


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