The reason Allah gave for the deviation of the people of Prophet Lut

[ENIGMA]

Anyone know the reasons Allah and his Prophet gave for the deviation and the evil act in which the people of Prophet Lut . I know what crime they did commit, but how did Allah explain it in the Quran and Prophet through hadith.

The question below is what a athiest asked me and im trying to find a answer for him. Obviously, even the perfect answer is not enough for some but a answer i do wnat to give in light of Quran and Hadith.

Question:

Anyone I have to ask you about the word sin in this explanation.

You know I am not a theist, but I am always intrigued by how theists can appear to accept contradictions in their beliefs.

So a man or woman is made with natural inclinations to be attracted to the same sex. Am I right to assume that you believe that God has made that person in the full knowledge of how they would think, believe and want to behave?

God then causes a number of books to be made that can appear to imply that the nature he has imbued his creations with is a sin.

He doesn't tell everyone this however. The ancient Greeks lived and died without this revelation being made known to them. Some of the most vigorous proponents of these natural inclinations provided us with the philosophical and theosophical systems we have based our socieities and religions on.

Why would God do this?

I would expect the answer "because he provides us with tests so that we can improve ourselves". You are of course welcome to make it, but you should know in advance that I think it is a very flimsy reason, so by extension you as an intelligent bloke probably know that too.

I find it hard to understand how such rational people as most on this site, can condemn non-heterosexuals because of the interpretation of a book written over a thousand years ago and based on the tribal rememberings of a stone age tribe.

End of question.

See, I want to explain through the Islamic argument and not how some Christians and Jews may answer this.

[abdulwahhab]

A man or a woman is NOT born with a natural inclination towards the same sex. Ask the Atheist if what he is saying is even something that is expected in natural selection or is a deviation, since the reproductive capacity ('fitness') of a homosexual is close to zero so homosexuality is either a mutation, in which case it should not have lived past its origins, or is the product of society/child-rearing or other circumstances. The latter is the obvious answer. What makes a thief a thief? Is it genetics? Is someone born a thief due to some changes in the womb? If you were to steal a car and your defence in court is that you were born this way, do you expect anyone to believe you, especially when there is no empirical scientific evidence to say that it is your genes that caused you to do this or that? No. It's either the childhood or the circumstances as a person changes throughout his life. If you live in a society that promotes such evils like homosexuality, you're bound to get more and more homosexuals and the reason isn't genetics.

[Saj]

Salaam

You can bring all sorts of quotes from Quran and hadith but they will not satisfy this person because he doesn't believe that sin should be "decided" by some entity he doesn't believe in.

Being a test is the best answer there is, but he does not want to accept this.

Many human behaviours are natural urges and have genetic basis, but because of the harm recognised in them they are not encouraged as "alternative lifestyles"

Examples are anger, propensity to lying and some say even criminality. Also amongst heterosexuals coveting another person's spouse or even engaging in pre-marital sex is sinful although may be a perfectly natural inclination.

Anger is perfectly natural and one that practically every human experiences- does one give in to that anger that can easily lead to abuse, violence, even murder. Why would God create us with the inclination towards anger and then tell us to control our anger - because it IS a test - all aspects of our personality is a test for us.

God and His prophet have told us how to live a good way - how to control anger, how to control our hunger and how to control our sexual desires. It is harder for some and easier for others. There are Muslim gay groups who are supporting each other in controlling their behaviour and trying to remain chaste.

Also, if we allow homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle why not incest - contraception is widely available so the union won't produce offspring? I have heard some liberals having to resort to agreeing that there is nothing intrinsically wrong or immoral about incest.

What if in time, we discovered that men who preyed on children to fulfil their sexual desires also had a genetic basis.

Homosexuality may have a genetic basis but this is not as simple as say eye colour inheritance i.e. it is not fixed. Many factors interplay with this, not least environment.

As to Greek and Roman sexuality - well they were pagans who committed shirk - they had obviously forgotten or corrupted their prophets' message. So Allah allowed them to have empires in this state (i.e committing a sin which will never be forgiven) then the issue of their homosexuality (a forgivable sin) is a moot point.

I know this isn't what you asked for, but as Muslims we should not be straightjacketed or embarrassed into thinking that homosexuality is somehow acceptable just because there is some genetic link. Genetic links can be brought forth for a whole range of unnacceptable behaviour - the latest being the obesity gene - do we let people eat as much as they want because it is in their genes or try to support them in overcoming their natural genetically inherited inclinations? Same with homosexuality really.

[marco100]

There is no genetic link to homosexuality. That's all rubbish. The experiments were tampered with by a "scientist" who in fact was homosexual. There were no control studies etc.

It'd be interesting to see how the ever increasing promotion of homosexuality over the years correlates with incidences of homosexual activity and diseases. Very interesting study me thinks...

[yearningheart]

Wa alaykummus salam,
Is not homosexuality a symptom of a society struck with an affliction whereby people are simply ruled by their nafs, so they go whichever way their nafs leads them.

The homosexuals are a very arrogant bunch - Allah has put a seal on their blackened hearts, so don't waste time debating with such people; He is the Turner of hearts.

The story of Lut is there to remind us that nothing but destruction awaits us if we behave the same way - may Allah protect us!


Whereas those of Allah have been given a tremendous gift, to worship their Beloved eternally. How tragic to throw this away for the sake of some momentary pleasure that leads to one's own destruction?

How inifinitely tragic it will be for the people of the Fire, that Allah turns away from them, and they are left with no means to worship Him!

As for those who have died without receiving the Message, we needn't concern ourselves with them as we have absolute faith in Allah, as He is the Supremly Just and Merciful.

Allah!

[marco100]

Wa alaykummus salam,
Is not homosexuality a symptom of a society struck with an affliction whereby people are simply ruled by their nafs, so they go whichever way their nafs leads them.

The homosexuals are a very arrogant bunch - Allah has put a seal on their blackened hearts, so don't waste time debating with such people; He is the Turner of hearts.

The story of Lut is there to remind us that nothing but destruction awaits us if we behave the same way - may Allah protect us!


Whereas those of Allah have been given a tremendous gift, to worship their Beloved eternally. How tragic to throw this away for the sake of some momentary pleasure that leads to one's own destruction?

How inifinitely tragic it will be for the people of the Fire, that Allah turns away from them, and they are left with no means to worship Him!

As for those who have died without receiving the Message, we needn't concern ourselves with them as we have absolute faith in Allah, as He is the Supremly Just and Merciful.

Allah!

Agree with you totally. That Day all books will be opened and all accounts settled. Reminds me of my tax audit! Yikes!