Imsak of Fajr

[Hamdi]

In some calenders for prayer times we see both Imsak and Fajr. But I have read you must stop eating with the adhan /i.e. at Fajr time/. So why are those 2 times - Imsak and Fajr?

Comment this, please!

[sudoku]

Fajr time is when Fajr sets in, but since the chart is made by calculations, they give a small period of reprieve in case the calculation is wrong, usually about five minutes or so. Also, many people tend to go half a minute or a minute over, so this helps in them not actually going over suhoor time.

[Hamdi]

I aksed this question because we have a discussion on a local website. The Salafi shaykh Munajjid claims that "imsak times" are bid'ah.

[abuhajira]

So would the calculated prayer times be.. unless they have people with yard sticks to calculate asr , dhuhur etc.. they shouldnt wory about people acting caution..

I will find out inshAllah

[mujahid7ia]

Here are my notes from Shaykh Faraz Rabbani's lectures of Fasting Explained about what he said on imsak:

a. One of the sunan of fasting is to delay the suhur close to Fajr time; it is also a sunnah, though, to leave ten minutes or so (the time it takes to recite 50 ayat) before Fajr and to stop eating, so that you can engage in some worship before Fajr. But this is not obligatory, it is recommended, so if you woke up 5 minutes before Fajr, you can eat up until Fajr time. Many people quote the hadith that if you are eating and you hear the adhan of Fajr, you should complete your meal. (And this is a شاظ aberrant, wrong opinion.) However, there is absolute consensus among the Sahabah, the Salaf, and the Imams of Islam that if you eat anything after the time of Fajr enter, your fast is broken. What the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is referring to is not the adhan of Fajr, but the pre-Fajr adhan which was given 10-15 minutes before Fajr to indicate the proper (safe, recommended, imsak) time to stop eating. If Fajr time enters, and something is in your mouth, spit it out.

[al_Zayn]

Here are my notes from Shaykh Faraz Rabbani's lectures of Fasting Explained about what he said on imsak:

That has helped; just a few Q's; Shaykh Faraz has mentioned a pre fajr Adhan, was this before the time of Fajr had actually set in? if so what is the proof? because the Ghayr Muqallid can reply by saying it can make people perform Fajr when in actual fact Fajr has not set in yet...how would we reply?

Hopefully Brother Abu Hajira can shed some light.

[mujahid7ia]

That has helped; just a few Q's; Shaykh Faraz has mentioned a pre fajr Adhan, was this before the time of Fajr had actually set in? if so what is the proof? because the Ghayr Muqallid can reply by saying it can make people perform Fajr when in actual fact Fajr has not set in yet...how would we reply?

Hopefully Brother Abu Hajira can shed some light.

I don't know the answer to that, but I can ask Shaykh Faraz on the forum for the class.

yes, Insha Allah brother Abu Hajira can help.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Sunnah Method & Description of Salah times

Ending Suhoor (or Sehri) few minutes early is just caution as Br Abu Hajira has said.

Calculated Paryer times (sunrise/sunset) can have an error of 3 minutes +/- to be added to the booklet (to be on Central-Mosque) as soon Br Abu-Hajira sorts me out with the Fatwaas.

[abdullatif]

Lets us take heed and beware of the correct time for entering of fajr. Many of the prayer schedules in the west have the fajr entering when the sun is 15 degrees below the horizon, what we have learned from our teachers and what has been checked and re-checked for accuracy by scholars is that the 15 degrees comes about about by seeing the enetering of fajr in cites that has many lights. So gives one thinking fajr enters earlier that it actually does. 18 degrees is more accurate and closer to taqwa. There really is no problem for fajr prayer time either way one will be praying at the correct time. The problem is in fasting. If one goes by the 15 degrees they will be eating after the actual entering of fajr. The difference is usually only 15-20 minutes. So whats the big deal? The reason we should be concerned is so we can do things correct and sound and inshaa Allah are deeds will be accepted before Allah.

[abuhajira]

sidi abullatif..

I think your post is more appropriate for the fajr timings thread by Br. Muadh. It has less bearings for us here and will cause undue stress. People have taken their time tables for the sehri, and most probably those timings have been agreed upon by the senior ulama of their communities... whether they are following 15 or 18.. the question at hand is the imsak period.

I have found two places which may make this imsaak timing more clear.. It is mentioned in Fatawa Hindiya

الفتاوى الهندية - (ج 1 / ص 200)
ثُمَّ تَأْخِيرُ السُّحُورِ مُسْتَحَبٌّ كَذَا في النِّهَايَةِ وَيُكْرَهُ تَأْخِيرُ السُّحُورِ إلَى وَقْتٍ يَقَعُ فيه الشَّكُّ

And same wordings are mentioned in Tahtawi Sharah Miraqi...

Basically while delaying suhur is mustahab, it is makrooh to delay it to such an extent when one gets into a doubt whether the dawn broke or not. Since the calculated times are just that, calculation. They are dhanni and not absolute. So the more closer you will get to the dawn time, the more doubt will increase. Hence imsaak time will make it more cautionary for one to stop eating in the safe zone.

The same is mentioned in hidaya..that it is mustahab to delay except untill the point when it become doubtful.

الهداية شرح البداية - (ج 1 / ص 129)
والمستحب تأخيره لقوله عليه الصلاة والسلام ثلاث من أخلاق المرسلين تعجيل الإفطار وتأخير السحور والسواك إلا أنه إذا شك في الفجر