Title of Ghaus-e-azam, Data Ganj Bakhsh etc.?

[muslim786]

Their intention is only significant insofar as to the level of their crime. No matter what the intention, it is shirk.



May Allah [swt] preserve Dr. Bilal Philips, who has done more for dawah than everyone on this website/forum combined.



You mean the Madhkalis? Nobody cares what the Madhkalis think, as they are a minority group amongst Salafis.



And what is your view on Imam ash-Shawkani [ra]?

Fi Aman Allah.

It is only shirk if and only if the words Gaus Al Azam actually mean the "greatest helper".
Either way as people like yourself and others clearly have shown that the usuage of this term is ambigous and can create doubts in people's mind then it probably is best not to be used.

[JayshAllah]

It is only shirk if and only if the words Gaus Al Azam actually mean the "greatest helper".
Either way as people like yourself and others clearly have shown that the usuage of this term is ambigous and can create doubts in people's mind then it probably is best not to be used.

People like us, bro? Have you read the words of the Prophet [s] who explicitly hated such epithets, and refused them himself??? Should I provide you a barrage of quotes?

[khalidy83]

sallam; JayshAllah

I have an example:

You being the good muslim you are. You give hundreds of people everyday support, comfort, food and aid them; as Allah has granted you a good standard of life.

On there other hand I have lost all my worldy goods and i have nothing; obviously i turn to my lord! but your kindness bring me to you, would you help me or not... most likely yes as you are already helping hundreds with the same issue ..... its not really like you going out of your way to cater for another brother.

So in my eyes you are the "great helper" as you helped me or the "giver to poor" as you gave to me... and not only in my eyes but those other people you have helped!! furthermore those who see your good work will say aint he a great helper and if your that goood in helping; people will hear of your good deeds by stories and news ! are they not allowed to comment on you and say marshallah he is so good giver to the poor? or not ?

these are just words dont make a big issue!! even the weakest, youngest, and the most corrupt of us muslim still know Allah swt Gives Everything!!

And Br Billil Phillips may be good for dawat put the day when he spoke about people like sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian and the Nasqbandi in a unacceptable mannor people lost respect; nothing to do with him being a salaf or anything. A man spreading deen should act more accordingly and not insult others if they have different views and esp claim his or his groups ideas are correct and these great scholars are wrong...

[Colonel_Hardstone]

People like us, bro? Have you read the words of the Prophet [s] who explicitly hated such epithets, and refused them himself??? Should I provide you a barrage of quotes?

Asslamo Allaikum,

That would your usual tactics of distraction. Issue at hand is conclusively proving that Gaus Al Azam actually means the "greatest helper". I don't know & if you can provide quotes on what it means and establish it beyond doubt that would be great.

As far as "May Allah [swt] preserve Dr. Bilal Philips, who has done more for dawah than everyone on this website/forum combined" then the forum has over 10,000 members and your statement is:

a) Logically absurd

b) Excessive praise and against the Sunnah

I leave it for you to answer to Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement.

[Sohaib]

Sallam ;

There is nothing wrong with using the title such as Ghaus-e-azam for such people as Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian.

The Title of Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian of Ghaus-e-azam simply mean "Great Helper" and those who have look at the life of the Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian will know that he benefited so many people physically and spiritually by touching their hearts. Those who use these title do not claim he is the "Greatest Helper" as this title would only be for Allah (swt); Nor do they claim that Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian is a "Great Helper" without the will and doing of Allah (swt). They are fully aware that Allah (swt) gave the ability to Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian to carry out the excellent work that he did and live the noble life that he had.

Yes I agree some people use these titles too much when they could easily use the full name of the person they speak off. But that could be to do with the fact the way they been brought up and taught knowing these great people by these great titles; i.e a habit. However I do not see why some people may object; these titles are mainly used in poems and naats which is acceptable I believe. Furthermore in talks and speeches educated men and women as a whole referred to these people by their full names. Their is no harm in using these titles and people should not stress too much on these title nor call object to it and be silly in calling it shirk?

There are a lot of things which people do out of love and respect but why must we deem it mandatory on others or on the other hand force people to stop doing it. This is one of those petty arguments to divide the ummah..... But I am glad it is discussed in a respected manor as we have a duty upon our self's to find out what these titles mean and ensure they fit the character of the person they refer to and more importantly ensure these titles are appropriately to use and do not include shirk.

wsallam

Jazakallahu Khair brother

MshAllah explained in a very balanced way.

[treo-guy]

Just for the record, Hakim ul Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi has used the word Ghaus-e-paak for Shaikh Abdal Qadir Jilani . See the book Arwah-e-Thalatha.

Thanks.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Just for the record, Hakim ul Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi has used the word Ghaus-e-paak for Shaikh Abdal Qadir Jilani . See the book Arwah-e-Thalatha.

Thanks.

W-Salam,

Jazakullah Khairun

Others have also used it therefore although I don't know what it means conclusively but with due respect to Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips I am not convinced that it means "The Greatest Helper".

Unless he has recently become an expert in Persian, a language I know for sure that he didn't even know when he Authored the book being quoted by Br Jayshallah.

[snassirnia]

Assalam Alaikum wa rahmat Allah,

saying that Allah would not give to one of his abds the role of greates helper in human level smell like salafi. it is western eighteen centry earthly positivist thinking and nothing to do with islamic theology.
Salafis shallow understanding of role of saintly men such as Aabedeen, zakereen, Aoulia, Mokhleseen, mootaggeen, zahedeen,daaees, etc ;
has turned some brothers understanding of our religion to pragmatic earthly one.
they readily equate every human spritual interferance to shirk.

It has created shallow understanding of Allah SWT role in divine and earthly level. the danger is that the salafi's shalow understanding has become many peoples . as a result some brothers become extra sensitive when any help of friends of Allah is mentioned.
It is the decision of Allah SWT that our afairs in the earth both materialy and spritualy are put on the sholders of some appropriate men.
Why dont you staop eating vegetables and meat and just depend on Allah SWT's life giving power
why dont we just depend on our personal relation and dont read from mofaserren and Aalims.
Why did Allah SWT send mosa (AS) to seek knowledge from the green prophet.
why would Allah SWt give such an example to you and me.
Lets not bring our religion to our low level, and modern man's miserable earthly level.
Do not deny if you do not experience something. that is a grave sin as at end it limits Allah swt's creative power.

Wassalam

[khalidy83]

sallam

As i mentioned in my first post we should try to find out the proper meanings of these titles as its our duty; it is evident majority of these words come from the sub-cont - urdu driven from a persain word most likely. If we cant find what they mean; we must take the meaning by those whom use these words. But it seems like their a despute in the meaning but its it not from the sunnah of the prophet (swa) to assume the best of peoples intentions... furthermore these people who use these title they make it clear as the meaning of Ghaus-e-azam as Great Helper. Finally as the bro posted that even Hakim ul Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi used the title for atleast Sh. Abdul Qadir Jillian. Other Title not sure

Muadh u mentioned excessive praise is not from the sunnah; very true but are we still talking about using these titles? a name being excessive?.... like i mentioned i believe they are fine after speaking to those who use them but i do understand some people may use these words alot? the name/title may is not excessive it self but excessive used... i try to explain this also before; when people have been taught about these great Sh. from a young age they may have used these titles to refer to these great Sh. and now it is out of habit rather than anything else.

I also agree my my last post was absurd if that refer to my comments but i trying to imply these are just words so we shouldnt dewell on them to much.
and those who use them do with good intention and like you said "I leave it for you to answer to Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement".

Next will sum1 say? those whom say to their wife "Your all i need" is wrong ?

About Bilal Phillips; i said nothing bad about him ! and i agreed he good for dawat... thats his life giving dawat and thats why he not a Sh. or imam etc i merly mentioned some people where upset with few of his comments. i personally listen to all even tho his aqida may differe from mine as i have relaised certain bro's, Sh. are good for certain topics or areas. Everyone has their own field that they good at.

[Indian_Muslim]

Muslim786 , you must apologize for slandering the person of Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips , who is a very learned scholar of authentic Islam , and whi is our Shaikh.