The Official SAQ/Murabitun debates thread

[sahih-baba]

Dear Murabitun,

al-salamu 'alaykum

Recently we had a discussion concerning the shadhili / darqawi tariqa.
As far as my limited knowledge goes, the bay'a of any shadhili tariqa is an oath to follow the shaykh of that tariq and take a wird from him which one must recite morning and evening after subh and maghrib respectively.

And this wird is called al-wird al-'am (the general wird) which comprises istighfar (x100), salat 'alannabi (x100) and tahlil (x100).
This is the basic template used by branches of the shadhiliyya in various forms and embellishments....

For example, the original Darqawi wird consists of 100 istigharat, 100 salawat 'alannabi and then 1000 tahlils as outlined on p.28 of THE DARQAWI WAY (Diwan Press/Bewleys);

the modern Shadhiliyya/Darqawiyya/Hashimiyya has 100+100+100 and then qul huwAllahu ahad (x3) and then fatiha (x1) and ends with du'a of your own;

and the Boushishiyya have a different order of the basic backbone and other additions which one can see at their website.

Now, having talked to some of you, it seems that the murabitun do not recite the general wird like the other Shadhilis, but the diwan of shaykh al-Habib instead.

From our recent conversation, I got the impression that you seemed to know about the existence of such a wird but it didn't really form part of your daily wird.

Please do correct me if I am completely mistaken or "embarrass you with my ignorance".

The other important shadhili wird is the HIZB AL-BAHR which none of you seem to be familiar with either.

I await your clarification.

Jazakumullah khayran wal-salam.

[The Professor]

Wa alaikum salam Sahih Baba.

Since Shaykh Shadhili there have been 24 Shaykhs in the Isnad to Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi. Therefore there are many strands on the tariqa. These strands will naturally have their own specific dhikhrs and wirds which may or may not be the same as those done in the time of Shaykh Shahili.

One wird that Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi has passed down has been the al-wird al-'am (the general wird) which comprises istighfar (x100), salat 'alannabi (x100) and tahlil (x100). He mentions this in his message to the American people video.

Another wird which he has passed down is the wird of his Shaykh Muhammad ibn-Habib, may Allah give his light and expansion in his tomb, which is longer.

From my knowledge, most fuqara of Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi do the longer wird.

[ENIGMA]

Wa alaikum salam Sahih Baba.

Since Shaykh Shadhili there have been 24 Shaykhs in the Isnad to Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi. Therefore there are many strands on the tariqa. These strands will naturally have their own specific dhikhrs and wirds which may or may not be the same as those done in the time of Shaykh Shahili.

One wird that Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi has passed down has been the al-wird al-'am (the general wird) which comprises istighfar (x100), salat 'alannabi (x100) and tahlil (x100). He mentions this in his message to the American people video.

Another wird which he has passed down is the wird of his Shaykh Muhammad ibn-Habib, may Allah give his light and expansion in his tomb, which is longer.

From my knowledge, most fuqara of Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi do the longer wird.

So the Hizb al Bahr has no place in your tariq?

Officially I mean, as people can read it if they so wish, but as part of your instructions from your Shaykh, the Hizb al Bahr is not part of your daily awrad?

I thought it was one awrad which was most consistent in the Shadhilli tariq, regardless of Shaykh or location.

[sahih-baba]

Wa alaikum salam Sahih Baba.

Since Shaykh Shadhili there have been 24 Shaykhs in the Isnad to Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi. Therefore there are many strands on the tariqa. These strands will naturally have their own specific dhikhrs and wirds which may or may not be the same as those done in the time of Shaykh Shahili.

One wird that Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi has passed down has been the al-wird al-'am (the general wird) which comprises istighfar (x100), salat 'alannabi (x100) and tahlil (x100). He mentions this in his message to the American people video.

Another wird which he has passed down is the wird of his Shaykh Muhammad ibn-Habib, may Allah give his light and expansion in his tomb, which is longer.

From my knowledge, most fuqara of Shaykh Abdul Qadir As Sufi do the longer wird.

salam, yes you have confirmed what i had already stated.

i am surprised that the general wird has little or no weight in a Darqawi tariqa considering that on p.28 of THE DARQAWI WAY, concerning the general wird, we read:

"For us this is part of the path of the people of the outward, the victorious masters, may Allah be pleased with all of them"

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

That is correct that Murabatun don’t follow the standard shadhili / darqawi tariqa Awrad. In the book “The difficult Journey” the Murabatun-Cult-member Ahmed Thomson also mentions reading the Diwan of Shaykh Al-Habib from his journey from UK (onwards) and even in Madina (if my memory serves me right)

The two books (mentioned above & sequel) also talk about other issues of Shariah (eating probable Haram, facing Kabah the long/other way around) which I will have to read up on Maliki Madhab to find out if they are indeed opinions from Maliki Madhab or Murabatun self-tempering with the Madhab

Allah (SWT) knows best.

[laughinglion]

salam, yes you have confirmed what i had already stated.

i am surprised that the general wird has little or no weight in a Darqawi tariqa considering that on p.28 of THE DARQAWI WAY, concerning the general wird, we read:

"For us this is part of the path of the people of the outward, the victorious masters, may Allah be pleased with all of them"

Professor has already given you answer to this question, "Since Shaykh... there have been many shuyoukh....." The Shuyoukh give the fuqara` the medicine they consider suitable for them and their times.

The wird of Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib is for all of the fuqara', on a daily basis. If this is established then this plus 100*tahlil, 100*salaawat, 100*istighfar, 73*hasbunallah, 66*ismu'l-`atham, then if one establishes this wird of Shaykh Muhammad twice a day, with variations/additions at subh time. In addition to this there are various surah's (eg, yasin, mulk, waqia). And there are some fuqara' who have to read 'the hafitha' daily. this takes about two hours. Some have the nasiri du'a to read daily. Some have 690 hasbunallah to do with the wird of Shaykh Muhammad, etc, etc. In short there is not a one size fits all approach in living tareeq.

Please to not trying and make this topic a means to argumentation and oneupmanship, as people seem to have done regarding the slaughter of Muslims.

with peace

[sahih-baba]

Asslamo Allaikum,

That is correct that Murabatun don’t follow the standard shadhili / darqawi tariqa Awrad. In the book “The difficult Journey” the Murabatun-Cult-member Ahmed Thomson also mentions reading the Diwan of Shaykh Al-Habib from his journey from UK (onwards) and even in Madina (if my memory serves me right)

The two books (mentioned above & sequel) also talk about other issues of Shariah (eating probable Haram, facing Kabah the long/other way around) which I will have to read up on Maliki Madhab to find out if they are indeed opinions from Maliki Madhab or Murabatun self-tempering with the Madhab

Allah (SWT) knows best.

salam,
the exposition by laughing lion sounds credible.
as for eating probable haram and facing qibla wrongly - i have never heard of this, do elaborate what you know to be true and if it's not true, i am sure the murabitun will refute it.

NB * we are brothers and love each other for Allah and hate the warmongering kuffar for the sake of Allah *

[Colonel_Hardstone]

salam,
the exposition by laughing lion sounds credible.
as for eating probable haram and facing qibla wrongly - i have never heard of this, do elaborate what you know to be true and if it's not true, i am sure the murabitun will refute it.

NB * we are brothers and love each other for Allah and hate the warmongering kuffar for the sake of Allah *

Asslamo Allaikum,

This is all from memory so I would appreciate if someone can correct me if I am wrong

1) During the journey at a particular occasion Ahmed Thomson is extremely hungry and unable to get food so he prays (Asr, I think) and comes across some bread which is he is fairly sure that it contains animal shortening…so he justifies to himself that at the time of extreme hunger (or near death) it is permissible & eats it. You have to follow the whole episode to know what I am talking about.

2) On more than one occasion he prays in a specific direction (sometimes sure that it isn’t the Qiblah and sometimes unsure of the correct direction) and he writes that its permissible to face the Qiblah in the Maliki Madhab “The Long Way around” (in my limited understanding from the text he is going around the Earth the other way around). I would have understood if he would have said that he is unsure and can’t figure it our…Not sure if Imam Malik (RA) deemed it permissible to pray “The Long way around (whatever that means???)”

Also not sure about Tayyammum on a rock in Maliki Madhab?

There are other episodes in the book which make me wonder if they are indeed valid opinions of Maliki Madhab or not?

Apart from this, what also struck me is that in Norwich Mosque in Summer Murabatun do Dhohar Salah bang on at 13:00 when according to the rest of UK its PRE-ZAWAL and Dhohar hasn’t kicked in. Murabatun believe in some special mechanism/method of calculating Prayer times by which Dhohar falls before the rest of the UK? Not sure about that, either.

[laughinglion]

salam,
the exposition by laughing lion sounds credible.
as for eating probable haram and facing qibla wrongly - i have never heard of this, do elaborate what you know to be true and if it's not true, i am sure the murabitun will refute it.

NB * we are brothers and love each other for Allah and hate the warmongering kuffar for the sake of Allah *

I forgot to mention some have hizbu'l-bahr....

I think Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (Allah bless and protect him and benefit us by him) said something like, "Do not ask about those who are not present." He continued that even to asking how those who are not present are is a major cause of back-biting. Are you aware to which statement I am referring? Do you know where I can find it? More importantly, do you understand it's import?

with peace

[The Professor]

Asslamo Allaikum,

That is correct that Murabatun don’t follow the standard shadhili / darqawi tariqa Awrad. In the book “The difficult Journey” the Murabatun-Cult-member Ahmed Thomson also mentions reading the Diwan of Shaykh Al-Habib from his journey from UK (onwards) and even in Madina (if my memory serves me right)

The two books (mentioned above & sequel) also talk about other issues of Shariah (eating probable Haram, facing Kabah the long/other way around) which I will have to read up on Maliki Madhab to find out if they are indeed opinions from Maliki Madhab or Murabatun self-tempering with the Madhab

Allah (SWT) knows best.

Firstly, the Murabitun is not a "cult". I don't know why Muadh Khan insists on saying this, but i find it very offensive.

I'm sure if i referred to Muadh Khan everytime as belonging to a cult then he would also find it very offensive. Maybe I should to see how he likes it.