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Thread: The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

  1. #1
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    Default The Official Deobandi/Barelwi Thread

    Assalamu alaykum, I am sure most of us have read the article before but thought I'd post it up on this forum in any case for those who hadn't. I think Shaykh G.F. Haddad couldn't have summed it up any better. Sadly, I still see these petty arguments in our masajid and elsewhere amongst second and third generation Asian Muslims!







    No Difference between

    Barelwis and Deobandis



    Q:


    What exactly is the difference between the school

    of thought that follows Ala Hadrath Ahmed Rida Khan RA

    and those that follow the school of thought of

    Rashid Ahmed Gangohi against whom i understand

    Ala Hadrath had said that there is inherent kufr

    in the nature of thought expressed but did not issue

    a fatwa of Kufr, as Maulana Rashid Gangohi had passed on.

    (may Allah Ta'laa forgive me if i have made a mistake )



    there is a lot of ikhtiflaaf in the Indian subcontinent

    on this issue and i do understand that it is extremely volatile

    - but, i would request you to kindly spare sometime and answer me





    A:





    Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim:



    There is no difference in the generalities of `Aqida and

    Fiqh between Barelwis and Deobandis. They are both Sunni

    Hanafis, Sufis, Ash`aris or Maturidis. One stands in need

    of the best each school has to offer, as indeed hold many

    of the living prestigious teachers known to both sides.



    Among the best commentaries on Sahih Muslim and the Sunan of

    al-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud are works by the Deobandis. The

    lives of the Sahaba by al-Kandihlawi is a masterpiece. I`la'

    al-Sunan and Aathaar al-Sunan are very valuable. As for Imam

    Ahmad Rida Khan and his works, whoever does not recognize

    their worth as one of the treasures of this Umma is a blasted

    nincompoop who should wear a dunce cap until he learns.



    Both sides are strict Hanafis and mainstream Sufis. We do not

    endorse the mistakes that anyone might have made, such as

    uttering words rightly perceived to lack adab in matters

    of `Aqida or contesting the legality of celebrating Mawlid.



    Nor do we endorse Takfir. Demonization of the other, saying

    they are munafiq is unacceptable. We leave extremism to Najd

    and its minions. Come together. Sayyid Muhammad `Alawi al-

    Maliki advised you to do so, Sayyid Yusuf al-Rifa`i advised

    you, Shaykh `Abd al-Hadi Kharsa advised you, Sayyid Ya`qubi,

    Dr. al-Nass, others... Do you think you stand for the honor of

    Allah and His Prophet more than such as these? Think again.



    When the situation is such that there is mutual avoidance at

    mosques, gatherings, etc. then it becomes wajib for every true

    and sincere Deobandi should seek out his counterparts among

    Barelwis and for every true and sincere Barelwi to seek out

    his counterparts among Deobandis, pray together, learn from

    one another, give salam, and increase love. Disunity is sin.

    Or are you afraid you will lose reputation or funding? Shame.



    Here is the resting-place of Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir Gilani and

    Imam Abu Hanifa bracing for another Mongoloid onslaught. Will

    you Sunnis still be debating and anathematizing one another

    because of who said what as the Hour rises? Stressing ikhtilaf

    and schism is from Shaytan. If this is what the general public

    chooses to follow, it is their loss even as they shout ALLAHU

    AKBAR and YA RASULALLAH from God's dawn to the wee hours. Salam.



    Hajj Gibril

    Shawwal 1423/December 2002

    GF Haddad

    2002-12-10


  2. #2
    Senior Member Goldi's Avatar
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    Default

    There was also a lengthy fatwa by Mufti Ibn Adam I think. Both very relevant.
    'Rebelliousness is an over-praised virtue, it is important to say something and not just threaten to say something, and there are better things to do with even a defective inheritance than trash it. - Clifford Geertz.


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    Default

    Oh yeah, the Milaad one.


  4. #4
    Senior Member Goldi's Avatar
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    Default

    Personally, I'd like us to leave these things back in desi land. I mean seriously, can we stop with the pointless divisions already?
    'Rebelliousness is an over-praised virtue, it is important to say something and not just threaten to say something, and there are better things to do with even a defective inheritance than trash it. - Clifford Geertz.


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    Member Hard2Hit's Avatar
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    Default

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldi
    Personally, I'd like us to leave these things back in desi land. I mean seriously, can we stop with the pointless divisions already?

    I have this friend living in Sydney AUS. He was telling me the other day that a "paki" imam and an "indonesian" imam have declared each other kafir.

    The news was all over australian newspapers.
    Last edited by Hard2Hit; 01-07-2004 at 02:26 AM.


  6. #6
    Senior Member Goldi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard2Hit
    Assalamu Alaikum




    I have this friend living in Sydney AUS. He was telling me the other day that a "paki" imam and an "indonesian" imam have declared each other kafir.

    The news was all over australian newspapers.
    Apart from the fact that Australia is a pretty screwed up place to live, lets try to keep the irrelevant information to ourselves.

    JAK
    'Rebelliousness is an over-praised virtue, it is important to say something and not just threaten to say something, and there are better things to do with even a defective inheritance than trash it. - Clifford Geertz.


  7. #7
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    Default

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldi
    Apart from the fact that Australia is a pretty screwed up place to live, lets try to keep the irrelevant information to ourselves.

    JAK

    I can see now that ur a moderator but u see that info "was" relevant. The point was that some ppl really need to "grow up" (a hint there) coz those imams were declaring each other kafir as one was prolly brelvi and the other deobandi (allahu alim)

    So yeah, we should cut this "deobandi vs brelvi" drama and "grow up"

    JAK 2


  8. #8
    Senior Member Goldi's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard2Hit
    Assalamu Alaikum




    I can see now that ur a moderator but u see that info "was" relevant. The point was that some ppl really need to "grow up" (a hint there) coz those imams were declaring each other kafir as one was prolly brelvi and the other deobandi (allahu alim)

    So yeah, we should cut this "deobandi vs brelvi" drama and "grow up"

    JAK 2
    You're 'prolly' right.

    my bad.
    'Rebelliousness is an over-praised virtue, it is important to say something and not just threaten to say something, and there are better things to do with even a defective inheritance than trash it. - Clifford Geertz.


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    Default

    as salamu alaykum

    i do not wish to add fuel to the fire, but i do believe that there is grave misunderstandings on both sides of the debate.

    what i have noticed though is that the deobandi movement is 'opening' up, with many of the scholars openly ackowledging tasawwuf, and many of its students seeking the spiritual path, even through tariqa.

    yes, there are 'issues' with the barelwi movement too, but i believe the issues to be centred around priorities of both groups. The barelwi's are in effect a tariqa, and thats what they 'promote' hence many muslims are averse to their ways. the deobandi group is more 'puritanical' in that sense... however, i do believe things will change with the following generations.

    After all if Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi al-Hanafi can unite all the hanafi's under one roof, i don't see what the problem should be.


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    Senior Member Muawiyah's Avatar
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    Default

    Tasawwuf not a problem at all. The Deobandi ulama have always openly accepted Tasawwuf. The most important matter of difference (in my view) is that we don't believe that ambiyaa and awliyaa can percieve equally from near and far.
    Last edited by Muawiyah; 02-07-2004 at 02:50 PM.


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