Mawlid

[iqadeer]

I think that Deobandi stance is misunderstood in this regard since the objections raised by the likes of Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanvi, Maulana Rashid Ahmed Gangohi were in the context of indian type of Mawlood where people did commit extravagant acts and considered them necessary. Also, they denounced those who wouldn't partake in this. Everybody agrees that Mawlood is *not* sunnah and as such, if somebody chooses not to celebrate it, they shouldn't be decried. The objections raised by Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanvi were not baseless since he understood the mindset of the people around him. I don't think that these Deobandi elders questioned the validity of this act itself since they were spiritually linked to Haji Imdadullah who permitted the act or else could they have maintained their 'nisbat' or connection?

[tazkiyyah]

What muftis do at times is that if a permissible thing is practically not going to happen with unpermissible things around it, they forbid the thing in itself to be realistic.

An example is some opinions of women going to the masjids. Some 'ulema put such conditions on it, that realistically, they were not being met, so it was genrally discouraged.

This is not about emotion, or loyalty to a certain group or a popular movement.

This is true.However,in such a case sometimes people apply a specific fatwa which was issued for things happening in Pakistan elsewhere.

I see no reason why the deobandis and barelwis in ENGLAND cant have nice decent functions where they sing naats and listen to talks inspiring love of Muhammad(saw) spread over many days in rabi al awwal?

[Muawiyah]

I would advise you to tell him label a fatwa against Khalil As-Saharanpuri because he also supported Milad so long as it was free from reprehensible acts.

wa `alykum us salaam

what Maulana Khalil Ahmad Rahimahullah supported was the "Dhikr of the birth of Rasoolullah Sallallaahu `alyhi wa Sallam", he clarified that none of the Deobandi `Ulama hold that the "Dhikr of the birth of Rasoolullah Sallallaahu `alyhi wa Sallam" is not praiseworthy rather "even if someone did dhikr of a donkey belonging to Rasoolullah Sallallaahu `alyhi wa Sallam, that would be praiseworthy (what to say of the dhikr of his noble birth)".
This has nothing at all to do with a festival held on 12th Rabi ul Awwal which the awaam hold to be something waajib, the proof for this is that the person who does not pray is not condemned, but the one who does not celebrate this festival is condemned. The one who does not offer his zakah is not condemned but the one who does not contribute towards mawlid gatherings is condemned. So as far as I can see the awaam not only hold it to be waajib but they hold it to be a waajib greater than every other waajib.

wasSalaam

[tazkiyyah]

Well..from an adab/ilm perspective..mufti saif ul islam was wrong to
give such a harsh article
Mufti kawtharis is much better and much closer to al muhannad...

[tazkiyyah]

What is the mainstream deobandi position on istighaatha?

[tazkiyyah]

To be honest i think people are going to extremes in this issue.
In rabi' al awwal i think every mosque should organise weekly seminars to discuss the seerah.
People should all listen to shaykh hamza's commentary on the seerah.
Every body should try to increase one sunnah in their life..or learn one extra dua(etc)
People should increase their durud in this month.

So that it doesnt just become a day of shouting into microphones but a whole month where we are increasing our nisbah with rasul(sallallaho alayhi wa sallam)
I dont think any deobandi or barelwi will find this objectionable insha'allah.

Also there should be some conferences where speakers come and naat khaans come
and speak ..But CALMLY>.with no SHOUTING into microphones.
They should discuss from authentic sources and not attack other groups.

And everybody should make firm intention to try and pray their salah in the masaajid in this month and make tawba


This is milaad as i understand it

[iqadeer]

We could be getting off the subject but since you asked about the mainstream Deobandi position on istighatha, and I believe that it has been discussed here before, it is not permitted by Deobandi shuyookh in general. You simply need to pick up any books in urdu written by Deobandis and you will see that. This is due to the fact that majority of Deobandis scholars draw a line between tawassul and istighatha. The actual words of these two differ since tawassul is made directly to Allah while istighatha is directed to the prophets or auliya. The only aalim of Deobandi school of thought in recent times allowing istighata is Mufti Ibn Adam Al-Kawthari. But almost all of Deobandi scholars, old or new, with the exception of Mufti Kawthari, have never allowed it. I recently bought an Urdu book 'Quran aap se kya kehta hai' by Maulana Manzoor Ahmad Numani, the author of 'ma'ariful Hadith' and the book's focus is on having one's hope only in Allah and decries having hope in other than Allah. Also, the hashiya of Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi, a scholar closely affiliated with Deobandi school of thought, on Taqwiyatul Eeman cites an incident of Shah Ghulam Ali Naqshbandi where he wanted to make the wird of 'Ya-Abdul Qadir Shial-llilah' and heard a voice in his heart commanding him to say 'Ya-Allah' instead.

With that being said, I am not looking for a debate here since I have already studied the arguments for and against the istighatha. I realize there is a difference of opinion and I accept that and leave it at that. My intent was to show the mainstream Deobandi position. However, my personal inclination is against istighata. Allah knows best.

[Yaseen]

Salaam

I attended a Mawlid last night and it was fantastic. An speech in English was presented by Sidi Saleem Ghisa in which he urged the youth not just attend the Mawlid and not learn anything. He stressed the importance of implementing the Prophetic way in everything we do in life and also highlighted the views of the classical scholars such Ibn Hajar Asqalani and Ibn Katheer rahimullahi'alyh as regards the validity of the celebration.

Also bro Muawiya Jazakall khair for clarifying the position of Khalil Ambethvi. I think its' fair to say the position of Mufti Al-Kawthari is indeed a minority position as far as the Deobandis' are concerned. This is probably down to the fact that he's been to study in the Middle-Easten countries like Syria where the Mawlid is celebrated with great fervour.

wasalaam

[tazkiyyah]

Hmm thats interesting.
I thought that hajji imdaadullah allowed in in faisala haft
and mawlana ashraf ali thanwi allowed it in imdad ul fatawa

but for sadd ad dharaee' it was forbidden for the awaam?

[iqadeer]

In the book, "bidat ki haqiqat aur uk kay ahkam-o-masail' which is a collection of verdicts and sayings of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi compiled by Muhammad Iqbal Qureshi, khalifa of Mufti Shafi Uthmani, on page 61 it says regarding calling out "ya Muhammad":

"To intend to say it for 'istighata' or 'istianat' thinking him (prophet) to be hazir-nazir is prohibited, and it is permitted without this belief if simply saying it out of an inclination of heart (kamalaat Ashrafia p. 57)"

The explanation continues that its prohibited with the belief of hazir-nazir and intention of istigha or istianat. However, the love and respect that Muslims have for the prophet and if somebody expresses these feelings by saying "ya-Muhammad" and he attains pleasure through it, then Hazrat Thanvi has allowed it.

Another Deobandi scholar, Maulana Manzoor Numani says the following in "Quraan aap se kya kehta hai":

Quran's first requirement regarding Tauheed - For any need one must ask and seek Allah's assistance only

Quran has laid most emphasis on this aspect of Tauheed since most nations who commited shirk were misled in shirk fil-dua and shirk-fil ibadah and it has always been the hallmark of those unfortunate people that they considered others beside Allah as their helper and solver of problems and turned to them for their needs and to please them worshipped them and prostrated before them, gave money on their names, made oaths upon them. Every person with an eye can see that among the idolatrous practices this is the most prevalent today and even the ones who call Muslims, a sizable number of them is involved in this kind of polytheism.,

Then Maulana Numani quotes many ayaats of Quran that deal with these polytheistic tendencies and sums it up by saying the following:

Thus, whosoever calls out to idols or the spirits of pious people or prophets and saints for their aid and assistance and fulfillment of needs then they need to consider themselves about the stupidity of this act and how they are falling down in depths of ignorance.