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Thread: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

  1. #1
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    Default Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    السلام عليكم

    I'm not from subcontinent however I read that Allamah Kashmiri is free of those salafi manhaj which they attributed to him by his following statement ;

    فرأى السلف فيها الإيمان على ظاهره ما ورد إمهاله على ظاهره بلا تأويل وتكييف ، ويفوض أمر الكيفية إلى الله تعالى ، وأما ما نسب إلى بعض السلف مثل ابن عباس أنه يعلم معاني المقطعات

    Isn't this proving that he meant that the Salaf believed in the apparent and did not know the meaning ? If they did knew the meaning like the Wahabis claim then what sense does it make to believe in the apparent if you know it's literal anyway ?

    If brother AbuHajira can maybe shed one more time light on Dhahir for me, namely does it make sense that an word standing alone like Wadjh, Yad can be accepted in it's dhahir meaning ? As far as I know the apparent meaning is by looking to the context instead of words standing alone which is either literal or figurative.

    JazakAllah khayran


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Assalaamu Alaykum,

    Brother I would suggest you don't visit that forum. They are famous for their misunderstandings and fabrications against our scholars. Same with this quote by Allamah Anwar Shah Kashmiri which has been dealt before on this forum. Use the search option. They have not even understood the word Dhahir.

    It is like they would consider Mawlana Anwar Shah as an authority! While he quotes the stances of the Maturidiyya and Asha'ira all the time. In fact, if you read through Fayd al-Bari, his collected sharh of Bukhari, you can even find quotes where Allama Anwar Shah refutes Hafidh Ibn Taymiyya! For example in the fourth volume he refutes the following statement about denying jiha [direction] for Allah, by Ibn Taymiyya:

    قوله: ({اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَآء})... إلخ، أثبت تعالى العُلُوَ على ما يَلِيقُ بشأنه. قال الحافظُ ابن تَيْمِيَة: من أَنْكَرَ الجهَةَ تعالى، فهو كمن أَنْكَرَ وجودَه عزَّ برهانه. فإِنه وجودُ الممكن، كما لا يكون إلاَّ في جهةٍ، وإنكارُ الجهة له يَؤُول إلى إنكار وجوده. كذلك الله سبحانه، لا يكون إلاَّ في جهةٍ وهي العُلُو، وإنكارها يَنْجَرُّ إلى إنكار وجوده.
    ________________________________________
    قلتُ: ويا للعجبَ ويا للأسف، كيف سوَّى أمرَ الممكن، والواجب؟ أَمَا كان له أن يَنْظُرَ أنَّ من أَخْرَجَ العالمَ كلَّه من كتم العدم إلى بقعة الوجود، كيف تكون علاقته معه كعلاقة سائر المخلوقات؟ فإنَّ اللَّهَ تعالى كان ولم يكن معه شيءٌ، فهو خالقٌ للجهات. وإذن كيف يكون استواؤه في جهةٍ كاستواء المخلوقات، بل استواؤه كمعيته تعالى بالممكنات، وكأقربيته. والغُلُو في هذا الباب يُشْبِهُ القولَ بالتجسيم، والعياذ بالله أن نتعدَّى حدودَ الشرع


    http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open....t=22&book=2361

    Now anybody who can read Arabic can read the harshness of the words cited here. Let them accept this statement too if they are eager to accept what is written in Fayd al-Bari.
    And if he were to ask for a gentle lady in marriage, he would be refused, and when he leaves the world it does not miss him, and if he goes out, his going out is not noticed, and if he falls sick, he is not attended to, and if he dies, he is not accompanied to his grave.


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Assalaamu 'Alaikoem brother,

    Brother could you maybe explain to me what Allamah Kashmiri meant with Dhahir in his text ? Maybe also from other pages or books what he meant with it.

    JazakAllah khayran


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhulfiqar View Post
    السلام عليكم
    I'm not from subcontinent however I read that Allamah Kashmiri is free of those salafi manhaj which they attributed to him by his following statement ;

    فرأى السلف فيها الإيمان على ظاهره ما ورد إمهاله على ظاهره بلا تأويل وتكييف ، ويفوض أمر الكيفية إلى الله تعالى ، وأما ما نسب إلى بعض السلف مثل ابن عباس أنه يعلم معاني المقطعات
    One needs to realise that when bila takyif is mentioned, it means that the meaning of it is not known. The Salafis who have made a distinction between howness [kayf] and the meaning [ma'na] is not know from the statements of the Salaf.

    So when the Ulama of the Ahlusunnah do "tafwid," they simply mean that they ascribe the meaning of it to Allah.

    This is also what Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri states. The Salafi who misused this statement from the book al-Urf al-Shadhi isolated his statements. For example, the whole statement is like this:

    ) أن المشابهات مثل نُزول الله إلى السماء الدنيا ، واستواءه على العرش ، فرأى السلف فيها الإيمان على ظاهره ما ورد إمهاله على ظاهره بلا تأويل وتكييف ، ويفوض أمر الكيفية إلى الله تعالى

    So he clearly states that these verses are from the Mutashabihaat. Now look how they left his statement on the Mutakallimeen and the position of Tafwid and Ta'wil:

    وقال المتكلمون : إن مذهب السلف التفويض وهو أسلم ، ومذهبنا أي المتكلمين التأويل بالعقل وفاق الشرع وهو أحكم ، ومعناه أن أصل مذهب أهل السنة التفويض ، وأما التأويل فعند الضرورة والمقابلة مع الغير من مخالفي أهل السنة ، والمتكلمون إنما احتاجوا إلى التأويلات عند المناظرة مع معاندي الإسلام

    He is agreeing with BOTH tafwid and ta'wil.

    Thereafter he mentions the people of the truth [ahl al-haq]:

    وأما المتأولون من أهل الحق فثلاث فرق : تأول أرباب اللغة بالاستعارة أو التشبيه ، وتأول الصوفية مثلاً في نزول الله بالتجلي وهو ظهور الشيء في المرتبة الثانية ، وتأول المتكلمون بنزول ملائكة الله أو رحمة الله الخاصة والمتكلمون طائفتان : الأشعرية هم المنسوبون إلى أبي الحسن الأشعري وتوابعه الشافعية والمالكية والطائفة الثانية الماتريدية : هم المنسوبون إلى أبي منصور الماتريدي وتوابعه الأحناف ، وأبو الحسن وأبو منصور معاصران وأبو منصور أصغر سناً ، وأما الحنابلة فلا ينتسبون إلى الماتريدي والأشعري .
    واعلم أن لفظ الأشاعرة يطلق على جميع من الأشعريين والماتريديين


    He is accepting Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (whose followers are Hanafis) and Abul Hasan Al-Ash'ari (whose followers are Malikis and Shafis) and the Hanabila who do not ascribe themselves to them.

    Moreover, he clearly states that the madhhab of the Salaf is Tafwid, as mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari:

    ، فالحاصل أن نزول الباري إلى سماء الدنيا نزول حقيقة يحمل على ظاهره ويفوض تفصيله وتكييفه إلى الباري عز برهانه ، وهو مذهب الأئمة الأربعة والسلف الصالحين كما نقله الحافظ في فتح الباري عنه

    Now we all know Ibn Hajar was an Ash'ari and he clearly stated in his Fath al-Bari that we leave the meaning of those verses to Allah!

    It is known that Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri was an Hanafi. Moreover, he also defended Imam Abu Hanifa of the accusation of Irja'. He accepts ta'wil as can be shown from his statements, except the ta'wil made by the deviant.

    Moreover, he mentions Ta'wil from Imam Ahmad (volume 3) about the fingers of Allah, as also mentioned by Imam Ghazali:

    قوله : ( من أصابع الله إلخ ) مرَّ الغزالي في إحياء العلوم على حديث الباب وهو من المتشابهات ولم يرض بقول التفويض إلى الله تعالى ، ونقل أن أحمد بن حنبل لا يتأول في متشابه إلا هذا الحديث ، وأقول : لعله لم يتأول فيه أيضاً إلا أنه حكي أن ابنه عبد اللّه كان يدرس الحديث فجاء أحمد بن حنبل في وقت درسه ، وحديث الباب تحت الدرس وكان يحرك عبد اللّه أصابعه فغضب الإمام وقال : مه لعل الناس يزعمون أن أصابع الرحمن مثل أصابعك هذه ، فلعل الغزالي أخذ من هذا ، والله أعلم
    And if he were to ask for a gentle lady in marriage, he would be refused, and when he leaves the world it does not miss him, and if he goes out, his going out is not noticed, and if he falls sick, he is not attended to, and if he dies, he is not accompanied to his grave.


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansari View Post
    One needs to realise that when bila takyif is mentioned, it means that the meaning of it is not known. The Salafis who have made a distinction between howness [kayf] and the meaning [ma'na] is not know from the statements of the Salaf.

    So when the Ulama of the Ahlusunnah do "tafwid," they simply mean that they ascribe the meaning of it to Allah.

    This is also what Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri states. The Salafi who misused this statement from the book al-Urf al-Shadhi isolated his statements. For example, the whole statement is like this:

    ) أن المشابهات مثل نُزول الله إلى السماء الدنيا ، واستواءه على العرش ، فرأى السلف فيها الإيمان على ظاهره ما ورد إمهاله على ظاهره بلا تأويل وتكييف ، ويفوض أمر الكيفية إلى الله تعالى

    So he clearly states that these verses are from the Mutashabihaat. Now look how they left his statement on the Mutakallimeen and the position of Tafwid and Ta'wil:

    وقال المتكلمون : إن مذهب السلف التفويض وهو أسلم ، ومذهبنا أي المتكلمين التأويل بالعقل وفاق الشرع وهو أحكم ، ومعناه أن أصل مذهب أهل السنة التفويض ، وأما التأويل فعند الضرورة والمقابلة مع الغير من مخالفي أهل السنة ، والمتكلمون إنما احتاجوا إلى التأويلات عند المناظرة مع معاندي الإسلام

    He is agreeing with BOTH tafwid and ta'wil.

    Thereafter he mentions the people of the truth [ahl al-haq]:

    وأما المتأولون من أهل الحق فثلاث فرق : تأول أرباب اللغة بالاستعارة أو التشبيه ، وتأول الصوفية مثلاً في نزول الله بالتجلي وهو ظهور الشيء في المرتبة الثانية ، وتأول المتكلمون بنزول ملائكة الله أو رحمة الله الخاصة والمتكلمون طائفتان : الأشعرية هم المنسوبون إلى أبي الحسن الأشعري وتوابعه الشافعية والمالكية والطائفة الثانية الماتريدية : هم المنسوبون إلى أبي منصور الماتريدي وتوابعه الأحناف ، وأبو الحسن وأبو منصور معاصران وأبو منصور أصغر سناً ، وأما الحنابلة فلا ينتسبون إلى الماتريدي والأشعري .
    واعلم أن لفظ الأشاعرة يطلق على جميع من الأشعريين والماتريديين


    He is accepting Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (whose followers are Hanafis) and Abul Hasan Al-Ash'ari (whose followers are Malikis and Shafis) and the Hanabila who do not ascribe themselves to them.

    Moreover, he clearly states that the madhhab of the Salaf is Tafwid, as mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari:

    ، فالحاصل أن نزول الباري إلى سماء الدنيا نزول حقيقة يحمل على ظاهره ويفوض تفصيله وتكييفه إلى الباري عز برهانه ، وهو مذهب الأئمة الأربعة والسلف الصالحين كما نقله الحافظ في فتح الباري عنه

    Now we all know Ibn Hajar was an Ash'ari and he clearly stated in his Fath al-Bari that we leave the meaning of those verses to Allah!

    It is known that Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri was an Hanafi. Moreover, he also defended Imam Abu Hanifa of the accusation of Irja'. He accepts ta'wil as can be shown from his statements, except the ta'wil made by the deviant.

    Moreover, he mentions Ta'wil from Imam Ahmad (volume 3) about the fingers of Allah, as also mentioned by Imam Ghazali:

    قوله : ( من أصابع الله إلخ ) مرَّ الغزالي في إحياء العلوم على حديث الباب وهو من المتشابهات ولم يرض بقول التفويض إلى الله تعالى ، ونقل أن أحمد بن حنبل لا يتأول في متشابه إلا هذا الحديث ، وأقول : لعله لم يتأول فيه أيضاً إلا أنه حكي أن ابنه عبد اللّه كان يدرس الحديث فجاء أحمد بن حنبل في وقت درسه ، وحديث الباب تحت الدرس وكان يحرك عبد اللّه أصابعه فغضب الإمام وقال : مه لعل الناس يزعمون أن أصابع الرحمن مثل أصابعك هذه ، فلعل الغزالي أخذ من هذا ، والله أعلم
    As salaam alaikum,

    Jazaakallahu Khair, just a request brother. Can you translate the arabic passages, may Allah reward you, ameen.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    As salaam alaikum,

    Something I thought that might be of interest is that Imam Anwar Shah Kashmiri's Grandson is 100% Salafi/Athari in 'Aqeedah.


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Zayd al-Atharee View Post
    As salaam alaikum,

    Something I thought that might be of interest is that Imam Anwar Shah Kashmiri's Grandson is 100% Salafi/Athari in 'Aqeedah.
    I dont think his son - Maulana Anzar Shah Kashmiri was salafi/athari?

    grandson meaning Maulana Anzar's son?

    which country is his grandson living in?


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by SY1 View Post
    I dont think his son - Maulana Anzar Shah Kashmiri was salafi/athari?

    grandson meaning Maulana Anzar's son?

    which country is his grandson living in?
    sh ateeq ur rahman kashmiri - I wonder how he is related.........

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VItKkQsl6sY

    staunch ahle hadith is an understatement.


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by SY1 View Post
    sh ateeq ur rahman kashmiri - I wonder how he is related.........

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VItKkQsl6sY

    staunch ahle hadith is an understatement.
    It was proven before he was not related in anyway to Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri. Also, this is fiqh related, not Aqida.
    And if he were to ask for a gentle lady in marriage, he would be refused, and when he leaves the world it does not miss him, and if he goes out, his going out is not noticed, and if he falls sick, he is not attended to, and if he dies, he is not accompanied to his grave.


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    Default Re: Statement of Allamah Anwar Kashmiri

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansari View Post
    It was proven before he was not related in anyway to Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri. Also, this is fiqh related, not Aqida.
    chill

    i wasnt the one who said it was his grandson


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