Takfeeri Hatred for Sufi’ism and Cutting throats!

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Asslamo Allaikum,

A disturbing trend is on the rise in the Ummah of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and every decent human being should be concerned.

The issue is of the Takfeerees and their reprisals against the Sufees or in the context of India/Pakistan the Barlwees (to be specific).

I read some of the articles of Takfeeres and listened to their Interviews on Pakistani media and they are actually justifying their killing of “Mulana Safaraz Naeemi” because they believe that he was involved in Shirk, on some English internet sites and forums they are openly celebrating the death of a “Mushrik”!

I came across someone and the thought patterns truly shocked me, this individual believed that there are only two groups in the world:

1) Hizbullah (which is him and those who agree with him)
2) Hizbush-Shaytaan (those who disagree with him) thus liable to be KILLED! Whoever it is…

What was truly disturbing is that this person thought that ANYONE working for the Pakistani Government is part of Hizbush-Shaytaan and resisting the implementation of Shariah thus their blood is HALAL and they can be killed in the most gruesome manner.

And he believed that anyone who doesn’t think like him has been deprived from guidance of Allah (SWT).

Another important point this person made was that he thought that there are NO ULAMA left in the world and he “literally applied” the Hadeeth of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) which predicts that Ulama will pass away and won’t be replaced to our times e.g. this person thought that all the “good” Ulama have died and the one left behind are all “bad” and sellouts their unfit to give rulings or be referred to in case of queries.

Person also thought that they DON’T NEED to refer to any Ulama as they already know what they need to know. This is also evident in the Interview of Muslim Khan (spokesman for Pakistani Taliban) when he is constantly referred to Mufti Taqi Usmani and he just ignores and says “There are no Ulama left in this world”

How did some people in the Ummah develop such Khawarij/Takfiri tendencies, venom and hatred which drives them to KILL people and during the murder if innocent children die (in a suicide bomb) they believe that such casualties are justified, understandable and overlooked by Allah (SWT)?


I don’t believe that it is correct to label these people as Deobandees or Wahabees or even Salafees because a vast majority of people adhering to these groups/schools DON’T ASCRIBE to or CONDONE these actions and are equally appalled and disgusted by them. Destroying graves & shrines is one thing but actually killing people is an entirely different matter.

How did we get here from the teachings of a Nabi who was sent as Rahma (Mercy) to mankind to cutting throats of people who we disagree with?

This post may sound confusing and all over the place and that because it is! I just don’t understand where these people are getting their ideas from?

[London786]

bro i know many takfiris and i even heard one of them infront of me rejoice at the death of the brelvi alim...

With regards to the route causes let me explain:

When people hear most ulema condemning jihad etc and then the textual evidence points the other way then naturally people will distrust ulema...So these people will then follow anyone who raises the banner of jihad regardless of if its the right jihad or the wrong jihad(fasad to be precise) Let me give an example... When I was young I had loads of questions regarding this topic but no deobandi alim would answer it(even privately though they had known me since i was a kid)

with regards to their hatred of sufis it is natural as many sufis support these governments.... if someone looks at the sufis or morroco they call the king ameerul mumineen... or the brelvis of pakistan who support musharraf(though there were notable exceptions like the respected noorani baba raheemullah) or kadyrov and his thugs who promote sufism in checneya....

The thing is the takfiris are filling a gap which we have left.... When was the last time anyone heard some hadeeths on jihad in a deobandi bayan? These hadeeths are hidden... But the takfiris quote it all the time....

This is where the problem lies... We dont do our job so takfiris take over....

[DefendingIslam]

Salam Alaykum,

I think this has to do with the emergence of Freethinkers in the Muslim world, as many of the "Muslim public figures" in the world media are actually Freethinkers who discard all previous traditional learning and make up their own things.

While some go to one extreme and advocate the permissibility in their view of consuming alcohol or endulging in homosexuality, others go to the other extreme and call for unrestricted killing of Muslims and non-Muslims accross the board. In reality there is a very small difference between the two groups in their "Usool of Fiqh", it is simply that their conclusions are different.

[DefendingIslam]

With regards to the route causes let me explain:

When people hear most ulema condemning jihad etc and then the textual evidence points the other way then naturally people will distrust ulema...So these people will then follow anyone who raises the banner of jihad regardless of if its the right jihad or the wrong jihad(fasad to be precise) Let me give an example... When I was young I had loads of questions regarding this topic but no deobandi alim would answer it(even privately though they had known me since i was a kid)

with regards to their hatred of sufis it is natural as many sufis support these governments.... if someone looks at the sufis or morroco they call the king ameerul mumineen... or the brelvis of pakistan who support musharraf(though there were notable exceptions like the respected noorani baba raheemullah) or kadyrov and his thugs who promote sufism in checneya....

The thing is the takfiris are filling a gap which we have left.... When was the last time anyone heard some hadeeths on jihad in a deobandi bayan? These hadeeths are hidden... But the takfiris quote it all the time....

This is where the problem lies... We dont do our job so takfiris take over....

I hope Insha Allah someone can explain this matter to me if I am wrong but this is how I see it:

True Jihad is done for the sake of Allah and to raise the banner of Islam. I simply do not see the masses of Muslims even in the country I am living in (the UAE) having enough knowledge and understanding to know how a true Islamic community and Islamic government should carry out its duties.

I am sure that a huge swath (if not the majority) of Muslims would be dumbstruck and shocked if they were to learn that the Islamic government is supposed to ideally spread its control over the entire world. The truth is that every anti-Islamic idea such as secularist humanism, nationalism, etc., have brainwashed the brains of the Muslims, rendering us quite useless in fighting Jihad to the fullest.

So let us suppose that there is Jihad in a land occupied by non-Muslim forces, and this land is eventually cleansed of all the non-Muslim invaders. What will be the use of this Jihad if the country goes to applying secular laws inconsistent with Shariah, and submits to the United Nations charters as the basis of its laws?

[London786]

the issue more complex than free thinking... It requires a whole essay...

[London786]

yes, what u mentioned is correct? what is the use of the jihad if they implement man made laws afterwards... Thats why the intention needs to be rectified all the time and sincere people need to be at the top and the tarbiyah needs to be done of the masses...

[Nomadic]

Bismillah
This is to be expected as there is tendancy to interpret shariah as one sees fit. When the usul of shariah is ignored, outcome is always catastrophic as proven in the past with Mutazilite and Khwarijism. The scholastic discourse has been set aside. It is not about who is sufi or wahaby. All are bound by the USUL. Some section of so called sufi clearly promote secterian tendancy along with deviant thought. Ghazi Salahuddin Ayubi (Rah) excuted such deviant sufis. At the same time those who oppose the tariqa incorrectely out of ignorance (by equating the sincre seeker with the deviant), reacts by joining the biddah brigade crowd. The extreme amoung them end up doing tafkeer as the other extreme. The middle way is not adhered to. This is the situation in many of the former USSR.
So equating Deobandi to wahaby and Berlewi to Sufis is a gross injustice in the context of Indo Pak Sub-continent. They both practice tassawuf, disagreement arisies out of the understanding of some relegious sciences. As for me, I prefer to adhere to the majority view and what is already been definded by scholars of the past in this regard.

As for muslim countries adhereing to Secular trend is understanble, there has been no or little contribution in the recent times rebuttling secular values with the exception of a few. Intelectual battle has been lost and scholars and activist failure to counter this resulted in vicotorius secular value gaining prominance. People still bickering about trivial issue and instead of focusing on the challanged requrising sophisticated response. In my humble opinion, Ulema have to be trained with correct additional education. Hence newer classification of schlor is needed. At the same time, we muslim are left to our own devices when scholars that seem to be speaking for us are unable to relate to us exacasbating the dire situation. We the untrained and ill learned muslim are simply won over by the secular values - at least covertly. The bar of education has to be raised for those who lead. Otherwise the result is inevitable. No doubt tarbiyaa given will have impact. But in general this itself may not be sufficient at Macro level of the state as intelectually the stronger intelligent view prevails and rightly so. Allah knows best

[ServantOfTheDivine]

Correct me if im wrong but didnt the Prophet Sal Allahu alayhi wa salam say that regardless of our government, we must obey our leaders unless they prevent our salaat, ive heard of this hadith but i cant remember the isnad


What justification except the practice of Shariah do the taliban have for rebelling against a government when the Prophet Sal Allahu alayhi wa salam told us not to?

[London786]

rebelling against a government is a complex issue and many factors need to taken into consideration....we have to speak against the rulers if they are doing wrong things..... This is clear from a hadith of abu dawood shareef.....Islam is not a passive religion and many sufis and ulema faced the wrath of the government... The most famous example is imam ahmed who was tortured regarding the view of the creation of the quraan

[ServantOfTheDivine]

i completely understand the necessity of speaking up against the government, resisting tyranny, ect. its part of enjoining the good and forbidding the wrong

but i believe i heard Shaykh hamza yusuf quote imam malik (RA) as saying something along the lines of "A year of oppression is better than one hour of anarchy" or something to that extent

our Prophet Sal Allahu alayhi wa salam told us never to engage in rebelling against the government due to the chaos it can lead, examples include Iraq where multiple fractions are now struggling for Iraq, Pakistan ect.