The Disasters of An Irreligious Social System

[demir tekinalp]

THE DISASTERS OF AN IRRELIGIOUS SOCIAL SYSTEM

In an environment without religion, the first concept to be eliminated is that of the family. Values such as loyalty, fidelity, allegiance, love, and respect, which sustain the family, are totally abandoned. It must be remembered that the family is the foundation of society and if the family collapses, so does society. Even the state and the nation have no reason to exist, since all moral values that underpin the state and the nation have been obliterated.

Furthermore, in irreligious societies, there is no reason left for anyone to feel respect, love or compassion for anyone else. This leads to social anarchy. The rich hate the poor, the poor hate the rich. Anger develops against those who are handicapped or needy. Or aggression towards different nations rises. The workers become aggressive towards their employers and the employers towards their workers, fathers turn against their sons and the sons against their fathers.

The reason for continuous bloodshed and the "third page news" in the newspapers is irreligion. On these pages, every day, we see news coverage about people who heedlessly kill each other for very insignificant causes.

However, a man who knows that he is going to be accountable in the hereafter cannot point a gun at somebody else's head and shoot him. He knows that God has forbidden men to commit crimes, and his fear of God ensures that he will avoid divine retribution.

Do not corrupt the earth after it has been purged of evil. Call on Him fearfully and eagerly. God's mercy is within reach of the righteous. (Surat al-A'raf: 56)

The cause for suicides being so common is also irreligion. One who commits suicide in fact commits murder. For instance, someone who attempts to commit suicide because his girl friend has left him should ask himself these questions: Would he think of committing suicide for that girl, if she became disabled, or became old, or if her face had been badly burned? Of course, he would not; he overvalues her in his mind when he sees her as elegant and healthy and he ascribes her as a partner to God, thinking her to be more important than God, the hereafter, and religion. He risks dying for her.

But someone who is guided by the Qur'an would never do such a thing. He would not even give it a moment of thought. A believer lives only for God's approval and exercises patience in the face of all the difficulties and problems God afflicts him within this world. And he does not forget that he is going to be rewarded for his patience both in this world and the hereafter many times over.

Stealing too is very common in irreligious societies. A man who steals does not think of how much trouble he causes to the person he steals from. He takes ten years of his victim's earnings in a single night and doesn't worry about how much he will suffer. As he inflicts pain on the other person, he may also feel pangs of conscience. But if he does not, this is an even worse state of affairs. It means that the thief has become hardened to committing all kinds of immoral acts.

In irreligious societies, values like hospitality, making sacrifices for each other, solidarity, and generosity totally disappear. First of all, people do not value each other as the human beings they are, because they see each other as beings that have evolved from monkeys. No one wants to welcome, serve, honour or offer nice things to anyone he thinks has evolved from an ape. People sharing this thought do not value each other. Nobody thinks about the health, welfare, or comfort of others. They do not worry about anybody getting hurt nor do they try to prevent such a thing. For instance, in hospitals people who are about to die are left lying on stretchers for indefinite periods; nobody cares about them.

Or the owner of a restaurant operating under extremely dirty, unhealthy conditions does not worry about the harm he may inflict on the health of the people who eat there. He only cares about the money he is making. These are a few examples that show up in our daily lives. Here, the main logic is that people are good to each other only if they can expect some profit in return. By the moral standards of the Qur'an, however, people value each other as servants of God. They do not expect anything in return for a favour; on the contrary, they try to gain God's approval by continuously doing good deeds, and compete with each other in doing well.

[JerryL]

Is "bunk" a post? It's certainly on-topic.

*edit*

I suppose that might come across as short enough to be rude: which I don't intend. It's merely that I just read a post extremely similar in form and content to this a week or two ago. I suspect, if I look, from the same poster.

It's obviously a cut-n-paste from somewhere else; and so I'm loathe to invest time into a response to a post which no time was really invested into making.

On that other thread (actually, there seem to be several, one on suicide being cause by lack of religion, one on crime being cause by lack of religion, etc.), I responded to the most glaring error-points.

Of course: all of the horrible things being attributed to non-religious people happens in religious people. It happens so much that religions make rules forbidding it (unnecessary if religious people didn't do it).

Whatever this particular variance is (family integrity, respect, compassion, violence, communication, "happiness", etc); you'll find that there are religious and non-religious people on both sides of the fence.

What worries me more is that people might actually buy into this and, in doing so, do nothing to address the underlying causes and indeed existence of the many bad things being discussed.

If violence, for example, is rising because of poverty, or lack of opportunity, or a drug culture: and those causes are ignored for "it must be the secularists" then people suffer needlessly; and I, for one, have enough compassion for others to want to avoid their needless suffering.

[marco100]

Is "bunk" a post? It's certainly on-topic.

*edit*

I suppose that might come across as short enough to be rude: which I don't intend. It's merely that I just read a post extremely similar in form and content to this a week or two ago. I suspect, if I look, from the same poster.

It's obviously a cut-n-paste from somewhere else; and so I'm loathe to invest time into a response to a post which no time was really invested into making.

On that other thread (actually, there seem to be several, one on suicide being cause by lack of religion, one on crime being cause by lack of religion, etc.), I responded to the most glaring error-points.

Of course: all of the horrible things being attributed to non-religious people happens in religious people. It happens so much that religions make rules forbidding it (unnecessary if religious people didn't do it).

Whatever this particular variance is (family integrity, respect, compassion, violence, communication, "happiness", etc); you'll find that there are religious and non-religious people on both sides of the fence.

What worries me more is that people might actually buy into this and, in doing so, do nothing to address the underlying causes and indeed existence of the many bad things being discussed.

If violence, for example, is rising because of poverty, or lack of opportunity, or a drug culture: and those causes are ignored for "it must be the secularists" then people suffer needlessly; and I, for one, have enough compassion for others to want to avoid their needless suffering.

What your arrogant mind doesn't seem to understand Jerry is that religion promotes peace of mind and contentment of the heart. Other religions aside, Islam emphasises that this world is a transitory phase. Not to hanker after the wordly and material aspects and to prepare for the hereafter as it's been told to us that this world is worthless in comparison to the hereafter. Death is guaranteed but also unexpected.

When an individual realises that and embraces that fact, he/she will leave aside wordly aspirations and not become obsessed with it. You could even say they reach a sort of "nirvana".

Now whether a muslim chooses to embrace that is another issue altogether as being humans we carry wordly desires with us. It's a constant struggle, hence you call it an inner Jihad or struggle.

So what a person does and what is promoted in a religion are not the same thing. You with me so far Jerry?

When you're in the company of religious people be they Christian or Jew or Muslim, you'll realise that they detach themselves from the wordly things. If you've been in the company of such people you'd understand. Sitting in the pub mulling over a pint and mocking others doesn't allow that.

Before you in your quite customary boring way quip back, at least try to digest what this means and you might just appreciate other people.

( I wonder what Jerry will post back. Surprise me Jerry)

[JerryL]

What your arrogant mind doesn't seem to understand Jerry is that religion promotes peace of mind and contentment of the heart.

Do you mean "promote" as "says you should have" or "promote" as "causes".

The former is irrelevant, and the latter is something I'd like to see you support.

But that's not really touching my bone of contention with the OP. The "disasters" being discussed are not the results of "Irreligious Social Systems".

Other religions aside, Islam emphasises that this world is a transitory phase. Not to hanker after the wordly and material aspects and to prepare for the hereafter as it's been told to us that this world is worthless in comparison to the hereafter. Death is guaranteed but also unexpected.

It's odd how that manifests here on these forums: with any number of people so vehemently concerned with what they perceive is going on in this world.

Indeed: this topic itself is (if we assume it's not merely an anti-agnostic rant) about changing the state of this world. What you assert here is the position of this religion, and what I see said and done by people here who claim to be of this religion, including yourself, doesn't seem to match.

When an individual realises that and embraces that fact, he/she will leave aside wordly aspirations and not become obsessed with it. You could even say they reach a sort of "nirvana".

An interesting choice of words since you are describing the tenants of Buddhism.

When you're in the company of religious people be they Christian or Jew or Muslim, you'll realise that they detach themselves from the wordly things. If you've been in the company of such people you'd understand. Sitting in the pub mulling over a pint and mocking others doesn't allow that.

You find the same thing in happy secularists.

[TripolySunni]

At the Moment the Non-Religious States are having a race Each one claiming that It has the Highest Suicide rate, Just go to some countries in Europe and check how they brag about it as if it is somthing positive.

[JerryL]

At the Moment the Non-Religious States are having a race Each one claiming that It has the Highest Suicide rate, Just go to some countries in Europe and check how they brag about it as if it is somthing positive.

Actually: top reported rates are in the former USSR. I wonder though how many murders end up "suicide".

It seems the opposite happens in the middle east: where I can find scores of examples of suicides, but the reports from the countries to the WHO often list "zero".

Such a narrow focus though. What about general contentment as mentioned in the last post? What about loyalty, fidelity, allegiance, love, and respect as mentioned in the OP?

[sauron]

Actually: top reported rates are in the former USSR. I wonder though how many murders end up "suicide"

now i know you are making up statistics.

the suicide capital of the world is japan, followed by south korea.

[TripolySunni]

Each site site presents slightly different results,

These are the top 10 on aneki. com

Suicides per 100,000 inhabitants per year
1 Lithuania 42.0
2 Russia 37.4
3 Belarus 35.0
4 Latvia 34.3
5 Estonia 33.2
6 Hungary 32.1
7 Slovenia 30.9
8 Ukraine 29.4
9 Kazakhstan 28.7
10 Finland 24.3

Wikipedia Lists:

Male/Female/Total/Year.

Lithuania 68.1 12.9 38.6 2005
Belarus 63.3 10.3 35.1 2003
Russia 58.1 9.8 32.2 2005
Slovenia 42.1 11.1 26.3 2006
Hungary 42.3 11.2 26.0 2005
Kazakhstan 45.0 8.1 25.9 2005
Latvia 42.0 9.6 24.5 2005
Japan See: Suicide in Japan 34.8 13.2 23.7 2006
Guyana 33.8 11.6 22.9 2005
Ukraine 40.9 7.0 22.6 2005
South Korea See: Suicide in South Korea 29.6 14.1 21.9 2006
Sri Lanka[2] N/A N/A 21.6 1996
Belgium 31.2 11.4 21.1 1997
Estonia 35.5 7.3 20.3 2005
Finland 31.1 9.6 20.1 2005
Croatia 30.5 9.7 19.7 2005
Serbia and Montenegro 28.4 11.1 19.5 2006
Hong Kong 22.0 13.1 17.4 2005
Moldova 31.5 5.1 17.8 2006
France 26.4 9.2 17.6 2005
Switzerland 24.7 10.5 17.6 2005
Poland 27.8 4.6 15.8 2005
Austria 24.7 7.0 15.6 2006
Czech Republic 25.5 5.6 15.3 2005
Uruguay 24.5 6.4 15.1 2001
People's Republic of China 13.0 14.8 13.9 1999
Denmark 19.2 8.1 13.7 2001
Seychelles[3] N/A N/A 13.2 1998
New Zealand[4] 20.3 6.5 13.2 2008
Sweden 19.5 7.1 13.3 2002
Bulgaria 19.7 6.7 13.0 2004
Germany 19.7 6.6 13.0 2004

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Of Course with Hungary Holding the highest Suicide rate in recorded human history.

Suicide rate in Hungary (1950-2005), 1983: 45.3 suicides per 100,000 people (the highest rate in recorded human history.)


This one is from Fathers for life,



http://fathersforlife.org/health/who_suicide_rates.htm


This article Discusses why people in certain areas kill themselves,

http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007...-of-the-world/

Here are some extracts:

"...Why do so many people in these countries kill themselves?
Well, generally speaking, people commit suicide because they feel there is no other solution, no hope left. The reasons could either be financial or personal (relationship problem, low self-esteem etc,) or due to a mood disorder. A lack of purpose in life also adds to a feeling of hopelessness...

...It appears as if the suicide rate is low or almost non existent in Muslim countries. Well, Islam forbids suicide, so it could explain the figures. But I think a zero rate of suicide is indeed odd. There are always mentally ill people in every population and a high proportion of depressed people and those who suffer from mood related disorders commit suicide. If Islam does not allow suicide it is likely that families could be hiding the actual facts..."

However Suicide isn't a secret I mean I Live in the middle east and when there is a suicide we usually hear about it on TV Last year there were 2 cases in lebanon, the government doesn't censor or hide these things. (And If I recall 2-3 cases in Syria as well.)