Prayer at the time of Sunrise

[zealansari]

Assalam o alekum

Can any Hanafi scholor tell me if the fajar prayer that starts before sunrise but finishes after sunrise is valid or not?

For example in Pakistan sunrises at 6:57, i started farz of fajr at 6:55 but it ended at 6:59. Will it be valid?

[Zubair]

It would not be valid, "Nothing from the Faraid... is valid during three times: during sun rise until it has risen... (Maraqi Falah)

So it wouldn't be valid, you would have to wait for a while, and then pray Qada.


"When Fajr time goes out (with sunrise, when any part of the sun's orb appears on the actual horizon), then one has missed the time for Fajr prayer, and one's performance will be a makeup (qada')."
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=5811&CATE=103

[zealansari]

It would not be valid, "Nothing from the Faraid... is valid during three times: during sun rise until it has risen... (Maraqi Falah)

So it wouldn't be valid, you would have to wait for a while, and then pray Qada.


"When Fajr time goes out (with sunrise, when any part of the sun's orb appears on the actual horizon), then one has missed the time for Fajr prayer, and one's performance will be a makeup (qada')."
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=5811&CATE=103

Actually a salafi has put this question infront of me. He has shown me a hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari that i remember says that even if you get on rakaat of fajr before sunrise your prayer is valid.

He says that at the time of asr hanafis say that salaat of asr is valid even if you get one rakaat before sunset, then why dont you allow this even if there is a valid hadeeth.

[abuhajira]

Actually a salafi has put this question infront of me. He has shown me a hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari that i remember says that even if you get on rakaat of fajr before sunrise your prayer is valid.

He says that at the time of asr hanafis say that salaat of asr is valid even if you get one rakaat before sunset, then why dont you allow this even if there is a valid hadeeth.

Sunrise cannot be equated with sunset. In Fajr the time of fajr expires with the appearence of a tip of the sun, while in Asr the time of Asr expires with the dissapearence of the last part of the sun.

It is makruh to perform salah while the sun is setting, and it is makruh to start your asr prayer in the last 20 min or so of asr before maghrib. So you start your salah in makruh time and end it in makruh time, thus making the salah valid although makruh.

[zealansari]

Sunrise cannot be equated with sunset. In Fajr the time of fajr expires with the appearence of a tip of the sun, while in Asr the time of Asr expires with the dissapearence of the last part of the sun.

It is makruh to perform salah while the sun is setting, and it is makruh to start your asr prayer in the last 20 min or so of asr before maghrib. So you start your salah in makruh time and end it in makruh time, thus making the salah valid although makruh.

Is there a Hadeeth in Sahih Bukhari that says that "if you get on rakaat before sun rise the salat is valid" (or somewhat similar meaning) ?

If there is then why it is not followed? Is there a detailed discussion which you can refer or can include here for both issues of fajr and asr?

Jazakallah

[Usman]

Is there a Hadeeth in Sahih Bukhari that says that "if you get on rakaat before sun rise the salat is valid" (or somewhat similar meaning) ?

If there is then why it is not followed? Is there a detailed discussion which you can refer or can include here for both issues of fajr and asr?

Jazakallah

Actually brother, this is from Ahsanul Fatawa, Kitabus Salaat [ Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanvi Rahimahuallah ] . He said there are different aqwaal regarding this. One of them is that if a person starts during time, and completes it after sunrise, then the salaah will be valid. You can refer to the book yourself if you like, or goto askimam.org , and they will provide you with complete reference as I don't have the book right now with me; but I am pretty sure it's there since I read it myself.

JazakAllah

[abuhajira]

Is there a Hadeeth in Sahih Bukhari that says that "if you get on rakaat before sun rise the salat is valid" (or somewhat similar meaning) ?

If there is then why it is not followed? Is there a detailed discussion which you can refer or can include here for both issues of fajr and asr?

Jazakallah

Yes, there are.. for both fajr and asr.

صحيح البخاري - (ج 2 / ص 425)
545 - حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ عَنْ مَالِكٍ عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَسْلَمَ عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ يَسَارٍ وَعَنْ بُسْرِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ وَعَنْ الْأَعْرَجِ يُحَدِّثُونَهُ عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ
أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ مَنْ أَدْرَكَ مِنْ الصُّبْحِ رَكْعَةً قَبْلَ أَنْ تَطْلُعَ الشَّمْسُ فَقَدْ أَدْرَكَ الصُّبْحَ وَمَنْ أَدْرَكَ رَكْعَةً مِنْ الْعَصْرِ قَبْلَ أَنْ تَغْرُبَ الشَّمْسُ فَقَدْ أَدْرَكَ الْعَصْرَ

On authority of Abdullah ibn Mas'ud from Mali from Zaid bin Aslam from Ataa' bin Yassar and Yurs bin Sa'eed and from A'raj who narated from Abu Huraira r.am that Rasulullah said that whoever attains a Rakah from the morning salah before the sunrises, then indeed he has attained the morning Salah, and whoever attains a rakah from Asr before the sun sets has attained the asr salah.

You can read some detail on it in Dars e Tirmidhi Vol. 1 Pg 435, if you can read Urdu. Otherwise, in arabic Imam Tahawi r.a has done some discussion on it in his Sharah Ma'ani al Athaar.

[ENIGMA]

Actually brother, this is from Ahsanul Fatawa, Kitabus Salaat [ Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanvi Rahimahuallah ] . He said there are different aqwaal regarding this. One of them is that if a person starts during time, and completes it after sunrise, then the salaah will be valid. You can refer to the book yourself if you like, or goto askimam.org , and they will provide you with complete reference as I don't have the book right now with me; but I am pretty sure it's there since I read it myself.

JazakAllah

yeah,thats what I heard too.

Ive got a interesting question to pose though,with regards to Asr and maghrib and fasting.

I heard about this incident in a local masjid. Just to let you know that in my city, the maghrib time on the timetables are about 5 minutes after the time has set in. so say maghrib is actually 4pm,the time table will show 4.05. no problem with that. but this is the incident which involved a Scholar:

day 1: Alim comes in,and breaks his fast after the maghrib time has set in but before other people in the masjid as they are waiting for the time on the calender. Some one enquires from the alim that time has not set to break the fast at which point the alim says it has. no problem there as most people know the delay in the time of the timetable.

day 2: same alim comes in and starts praying his asr after 'his' maghrib time has started but the time has not reached according to the time on the calender.

very same person sees(who questioned the alim on his breaking his fast) ,who is aware of the actual time of maghrib and time stated on timetable.just remember this person questioned the alim the day before on the alim breaking his fast 'earlier' that the time table.

so was the alims asr for day 2 valid?

to me it seems like his making it into a plaything. breaking fast early when it suits on day one. and then praying asr on day two when in reality the time is over,and he knows this too.

[Usman]

yeah,thats what I heard too.

Ive got a interesting question to pose though,with regards to Asr and maghrib and fasting.

I heard about this incident in a local masjid. Just to let you know that in my city, the maghrib time on the timetables are about 5 minutes after the time has set in. so say maghrib is actually 4pm,the time table will show 4.05. no problem with that. but this is the incident which involved a Scholar:

day 1: Alim comes in,and breaks his fast after the maghrib time has set in but before other people in the masjid as they are waiting for the time on the calender. Some one enquires from the alim that time has not set to break the fast at which point the alim says it has. no problem there as most people know the delay in the time of the timetable.

day 2: same alim comes in and starts praying his asr after 'his' maghrib time has started but the time has not reached according to the time on the calender.

very same person sees(who questioned the alim on his breaking his fast) ,who is aware of the actual time of maghrib and time stated on timetable.just remember this person questioned the alim the day before on the alim breaking his fast 'earlier' that the time table.

so was the alims asr for day 2 valid?

to me it seems like his making it into a plaything. breaking fast early when it suits on day one. and then praying asr on day two when in reality the time is over,and he knows this too.

Yes brother, this is confusing indeed. That's one of the reasons why some ulama in Pakistan came up with a "careful" timetable, i.e. to be on the safe side, but majority of the ulama still insist on using the exact time table instead of the new one. Their reason was the same, i.e. to keep from confusions.

[ENIGMA]

Yes brother, this is confusing indeed. That's one of the reasons why some ulama in Pakistan came up with a "careful" timetable, i.e. to be on the safe side, but majority of the ulama still insist on using the exact time table instead of the new one. Their reason was the same, i.e. to keep from confusions.

I follow the exact timetable as oppose to the 'careful' timetable,for beginning times.

But the incident I mentioned,it was a Alim and not someone who did not know. This Alim knows the exact time which he used to break his fast on one day yet used the 'careful' timetable to pray his asr the next day.