Sub letting council / Housing association Houses

[AbuHaneefah]

Salaam Alaikum,


I was speaking with a certain brother who sublets 2 rooms in a housing association house as a form of income.

He and his mother are on Housing Benefit and Income Support and they do not declare this income to DWP (otherwise it would affect their benefit) nor do they declare it to the Housing Association that owns the house (which the contract requires them to do).

This brother is a student of knowledge, he is young and his father has passed away, I asked him to go and find out if what he was doing was Halal as it seems very dodgy to me.

He said he asked someone (he won't tell me who) but he insists its someone with knowledge (who lives in a council house himself), and that person said that there was nothing wrong with this from a Shariah point of view, I am pretty sure it is a Deobandi scholar he has asked.

He insists that he fully explained the situation.

Here are the issues I have a problem with

1) When you claim income support you have to declare all your incomings - in this case they are lying - as far as I know this is Haram.

2) They are not sticking to the terms of the contract, as far as I know a Muslim has to abide by any contract he makes.

Does anyone have any experience with a similar situation - he said that he knows it is illegal and that he will be in trouble if he gets caught but he insists what they are doing is Halal.

Comments please.

Ma'salaam

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Salaam Alaikum,


I was speaking with a certain brother who sublets 2 rooms in a housing association house as a form of income.

He and his mother are on Housing Benefit and Income Support and they do not declare this income to DWP (otherwise it would affect their benefit) nor do they declare it to the Housing Association that owns the house (which the contract requires them to do).

This brother is a student of knowledge, he is young and his father has passed away, I asked him to go and find out if what he was doing was Halal as it seems very dodgy to me.

He said he asked someone (he won't tell me who) but he insists its someone with knowledge (who lives in a council house himself), and that person said that there was nothing wrong with this from a Shariah point of view, I am pretty sure it is a Deobandi scholar he has asked.

He insists that he fully explained the situation.

Here are the issues I have a problem with

1) When you claim income support you have to declare all your incomings - in this case they are lying - as far as I know this is Haram.

2) They are not sticking to the terms of the contract, as far as I know a Muslim has to abide by any contract he makes.

Does anyone have any experience with a similar situation - he said that he knows it is illegal and that he will be in trouble if he gets caught but he insists what they are doing is Halal.

Comments please.

Ma'salaam

W-Salam,

Unfortunately there are scholars in UK who believe that this is permissable and do it so the brother may have asked someone and gotten an answer.

I don't want to name names either but there are big-guns who consider this act permissable.

[ENIGMA]

W-Salam,

Unfortunately there are scholars in UK who believe that this is permissable and do it so the brother may have asked someone and gotten an answer.

I don't want to name names either but there are big-guns who consider this act permissable.

On what basis do they deem this permissable? No need to name names but what are the shar'i rulings they use to justify their views.

interesting thread.

To the original poster,counsel the brother that if he does get caught,it will cause more hurt in the term. Imagine,he gets caught,and then he gives the reason to the authorities that it was within the laws if his religeon,this will have such a negative impact on Islam.

This avenue is open to many and many do similar things because of the way the welfare system is set uo in the UK.

Muadh,care to share your opinions on Alims and Alimahs who teach in madrassas yet they do not decalre this to the authorities?

Another open question to the posters here.

If a Alim has aa full time job say in a office and this suffices for his and his families needs,and he also teaches in a maktab,should that person take a wage from the maktab seeing as his job already suffices for his daily needs?

Hafiz Patel sahib had a right go at some Alims who came to see him(young they were) when he found out they were taking a wage from the maktabs whilst having full time employment with a good salary.

I know if a teacher has no other source of income then taking a wage from teaching in the maktab is allowed,but im talking about treating the maktab as a supplementary income.

I also know of many who have full time jobs,teach in maktabs,but do not decalre their wage to the authorities which has been gained from teaching at the maktabs.

yes folks,its all stuff which makes me shake my head. and then we wonder why the laymen are off track.

discuss.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

On what basis do they deem this permissable? No need to name names but what are the shar'i rulings they use to justify their views.

interesting thread.

Asslamo Allaikum,

They justify it by saying that UK is Darul-Harb (land of war/Jihad), in that case why aren't they in Jihad instead of surviving on council subsidies (by lying)?

No answer was given to me.

[ENIGMA]

Asslamo Allaikum,

They justify it by saying that UK is Darul-Harb (land of war/Jihad), in that case why aren't they in Jihad instead of surviving on council subsidies (by lying)?

No answer was given to me.

Was that answer given for real????!!!!!!!!!

Im guesing one is allowed to tell such lies in darul harb??????

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Was that answer given for real????!!!!!!!!!

Im guesing one is allowed to tell such lies in darul harb??????

Asslamo Allaikum,

It isn't about lying, but in Darul-Harb some scholars may suggest that it is permissable (or even praiseworthy) to weaken the Kuffar financially (by taking as much money out of their hands as possible) so Kuffar don't wage war against Islam & Muslims.

1) To apply this analogy to lying (as you have suggested) to the local council is far-fetched

2) Living in Darul-Harb also implies certain responsibilities while they have simply cherry-picked robbing the British Government and left the rest of the Ahkaam out of the way.

To me, to declare Britain to be Darul-Harb to take Interest (from your bank Account) and to lie and cheat the Council and/or DWP on your income doesn't make any sense.

Nevertheless, there are Ulama who justify lying to the British Government and quote a leading British Mufti in their Support.

You must be well aware that this sort of thing is rife in our communities!

So the brother may actually have gone to a scholar and gotten an answer (as he is suggesting).

To me personally, we should abstain from doubtful means (to our income) let alone Haram to protect ourselves and our children.

Allah (SWT) knows best.

[ENIGMA]

Oh,so thats where the VAT fraud guys got their fatwas from.

and the taking of interest. and Mortgage.


So bhai Muadh,what are the other ahkams when it comes to darul harb,as this just seems cherry picking.

And I take it they would testify that they view this country as darul harb in a court of law??

So they are sayin this is darul harb? I must have missed the fighting........

brother London,brother xs11ax,your views on this please.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

So bhai Muadh,what are the other ahkams when it comes to darul harb,as this just seems cherry picking.

You tell me, NEVER SEEN A SINGLE BRITISH ALIM addres the subject in public, if you have I would like to know.

I have heard 30 minute conversations on how to hold a Miswaak with plenty of weak/fabricated Ahadeeth thrown in the middle...I have heard the family links of Abu-Jah'l...I have heard cooked up poetry from fabricated Israeli narrations about the Cot of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and the position of the room (which side was the Window etc.)

Never heard a talk about Britain being darul-Harb and what is our responsibility if it is OR when it becomes one (which it eventually will, if it isn't already).

[London786]

well the VAT guys up north i dont think they used that fatwa maybe u should ask them enigma as ur place preston is the VAT fraud capital....

with regards to this business its been going on for a long time... you wont know what kind of madness ive seen happening with this darul harb business... i dont think it happens up north as much as birmingham and london....

anyway the rules of darul harb are very complex....better to avoid when in doubt

with regards to darul harb yes maybe u have not seen the fighting but there has been fighting in afghanistan and iraq and the whole palestine issue.... in all of this r u telling me the british governement are innocent... smell the coffeee my friend the brits are the most involved....

[London786]

bro muadh u dont know the right ulema ive spoken to many privately.... to tell u the truth most dont have a clue... but some do and privately they will say somethings which will shock our faint hearted people. lol.