Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housing)?

  1. #1
    Senior Member tariqa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Don't know
    Posts
    806

    Default Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housing)?

    If all insurance is haram, would this make the medical profession or working in hospitals that have to deal with this fitnah harram as well so we would not be able to work in a hospital that deals with insurance?

    also would auto work be haram or is this because it is something you cannot avoid?

    as well as housing work which deals with house insurance?
    or would you be allowed to do these occupations under the reason that it is unavoidable?


  2. #2
    Senior Member tariqa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Don't know
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    anyone?


  3. #3
    Senior Member Usama2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Shafi'i
    Location
    Arabian Pennisula
    Posts
    1,565

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Assalam alaikum

    As one faqih described it, the capitalist system is kufr. Attempting to address various aspects of it, such as the insurance industry or finance industry, as to whether this or that is halal or haram is not representative of Islam.

    To expound upon that, the insurance industry currently functions as a way for insurance firms, and their parent companies, to use policies as a form of commodity to be bought and sold on the market. As well, insurance companies are by law only required to have 10% of a policy in liquidity, the other 90% may be used for investment purposes. The more policies a company has, the more they can tie up in investment. Capitalist culture attempts to persuade consumers and businesses alike to insure any all aspects of risk.

    The 2008 report showed $4.3 trillion dollars in insurance assets worldwide. Japan and USA compose 40% of the entire world market of insurance holders eventhough their combined population is only 6-8% of the world population. . The recent global financial crisis revealed several fraudulent insurance firms, the biggest and most important insurance company in the world, AIG (American International Group) had an absence of liquidity in the 2008 financial crisis. The US Federal Reserve had to save the company by handing over liquid cash for claimants.


    That being said, health insurance is not actual insurance Meaning, health insurance is NOT the aversion of risk to another party- ie. the insurer. Rather, its purchasing services and access to certain facilities and skilled professionals. The fact that its called 'insurance' does NOT mean that the Shariah identifies it as 'insurance'. Rather, its identified as a ii`alah contract: contract for fixed services.

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim
    Sheikh Sa`űd al-Funaysân, former professor at al-Imâm University

    Health insurance is a modern issue that had not been known before – not by this name, nor by anything remotely resembling it. It is problematic in that it resembles life insurance which is certainly unlawful. However, health insurance differs from life insurance in a number of important ways. 1. Life insurance is a contract built upon the unknown. It has uncertainty with respect to the amount that has to be paid as well as with respect to the duration of time. Health insurance differs in that it is a contract for a benefit that is present or has the legal status of being present. Therefore, the contract is free of the unknowns and uncertainties that are inherent in life insurance and that make the life insurance contract an invalid one. 2. Life insurance is a contract of obligatory compensation, like a rental contract, and therefore must be free of unknowns, uncertainties, and the consumption of wealth without right. Health insurance, on the other hand, is a type of ongoing service contract. Such a contract accommodates a degree of unknown factors and uncertainty that is not tolerated in compensatory contracts. Health insurance can be understood within the framework of Islamic Law as being a service contract with a fixed commission – known in classical Islamic legal texts as a ji`âlah contract. The jurists have stated within this context that the following would be a valid, legal contract: “Whoever tends to the patient until he recovers from his injury, sickness, or conjunctivitis, then he will receive such-and-such stated monetary compensation.” Ibn Taymiyah writes:
    The evidence for this is that it is permissible for a doctor to set a fee for healing a patient, in the same way that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) took a number of sheep for the recovery of the district chief. They had treated him by way of ruqyah until he recovered and then took the pre-agreed remuneration. Then the Prophet (peace be upon him) concurred with them in what they did, saying: “Apportion for me with you a share.” The compensation was set was for recovery and not for the reading of the ruqyah itself. If on the other hand, a doctor is given a mandatory fixed wage for achieving the recovery of the patient, it would not be allowed, since it is not within his power to cure the patient. Allah might cure him or He might not do so. [Majmű` al-Fatâwâ]
    At present, insurance companies are commonplace, many of them offering health insurance. It may be that having such insurance is a necessity for a man and the members of his household. Unfortunately, most of these insurance companies do not comply with Islamic Law in their mode of operation. When dealing with such companies is a matter of necessity or obligation, there will be no problem in doing so. However, when doing so is merely a matter of personal preference, it is my opinion is that the policyholder should never draw from the policy more than he has paid into it, even if his medical expenses exceed that amount. And Allah knows best.
    Abu Shamah had narrated, via the Sanad of Abi Ziyad bin Hudayr, saying:


    "Omar said to me: Do you know what destroys Islam? I said, No! He said: A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray".


  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Hanbali
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    It is problematic in that it resembles life insurance which is certainly unlawful. However, health insurance differs from life insurance in a number of important ways. 1. Life insurance is a contract built upon the unknown.


  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Hanafi
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Quote Originally Posted by Usama2 View Post
    Assalam alaikum

    As one faqih described it, the capitalist system is kufr. Attempting to address various aspects of it, such as the insurance industry or finance industry, as to whether this or that is halal or haram is not representative of Islam.

    To expound upon that, the insurance industry currently functions as a way for insurance firms, and their parent companies, to use policies as a form of commodity to be bought and sold on the market. As well, insurance companies are by law only required to have 10% of a policy in liquidity, the other 90% may be used for investment purposes. The more policies a company has, the more they can tie up in investment. Capitalist culture attempts to persuade consumers and businesses alike to insure any all aspects of risk.

    The 2008 report showed $4.3 trillion dollars in insurance assets worldwide. Japan and USA compose 40% of the entire world market of insurance holders eventhough their combined population is only 6-8% of the world population. . The recent global financial crisis revealed several fraudulent insurance firms, the biggest and most important insurance company in the world, AIG (American International Group) had an absence of liquidity in the 2008 financial crisis. The US Federal Reserve had to save the company by handing over liquid cash for claimants.


    That being said, health insurance is not actual insurance Meaning, health insurance is NOT the aversion of risk to another party- ie. the insurer. Rather, its purchasing services and access to certain facilities and skilled professionals. The fact that its called 'insurance' does NOT mean that the Shariah identifies it as 'insurance'. Rather, its identified as a ii`alah contract: contract for fixed services.

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim
    Sheikh Sa`űd al-Funaysân, former professor at al-Imâm University

    Health insurance is a modern issue that had not been known before – not by this name, nor by anything remotely resembling it. It is problematic in that it resembles life insurance which is certainly unlawful. However, health insurance differs from life insurance in a number of important ways. 1. Life insurance is a contract built upon the unknown. It has uncertainty with respect to the amount that has to be paid as well as with respect to the duration of time. Health insurance differs in that it is a contract for a benefit that is present or has the legal status of being present. Therefore, the contract is free of the unknowns and uncertainties that are inherent in life insurance and that make the life insurance contract an invalid one. 2. Life insurance is a contract of obligatory compensation, like a rental contract, and therefore must be free of unknowns, uncertainties, and the consumption of wealth without right. Health insurance, on the other hand, is a type of ongoing service contract. Such a contract accommodates a degree of unknown factors and uncertainty that is not tolerated in compensatory contracts. Health insurance can be understood within the framework of Islamic Law as being a service contract with a fixed commission – known in classical Islamic legal texts as a ji`âlah contract. The jurists have stated within this context that the following would be a valid, legal contract: “Whoever tends to the patient until he recovers from his injury, sickness, or conjunctivitis, then he will receive such-and-such stated monetary compensation.” Ibn Taymiyah writes:
    The evidence for this is that it is permissible for a doctor to set a fee for healing a patient, in the same way that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) took a number of sheep for the recovery of the district chief. They had treated him by way of ruqyah until he recovered and then took the pre-agreed remuneration. Then the Prophet (peace be upon him) concurred with them in what they did, saying: “Apportion for me with you a share.” The compensation was set was for recovery and not for the reading of the ruqyah itself. If on the other hand, a doctor is given a mandatory fixed wage for achieving the recovery of the patient, it would not be allowed, since it is not within his power to cure the patient. Allah might cure him or He might not do so. [Majmű` al-Fatâwâ]
    At present, insurance companies are commonplace, many of them offering health insurance. It may be that having such insurance is a necessity for a man and the members of his household. Unfortunately, most of these insurance companies do not comply with Islamic Law in their mode of operation. When dealing with such companies is a matter of necessity or obligation, there will be no problem in doing so. However, when doing so is merely a matter of personal preference, it is my opinion is that the policyholder should never draw from the policy more than he has paid into it, even if his medical expenses exceed that amount. And Allah knows best.
    Please reply to the conditions that I have mentioned in my thread"Working in a Life Insurance Sector in Islam". Please I need it urgently.


  6. #6
    Senior Member tariqa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Don't know
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Quote Originally Posted by perthelizabeth View Post
    It is problematic in that it resembles life insurance which is certainly unlawful. However, health insurance differs from life insurance in a number of important ways. 1. Life insurance is a contract built upon the unknown.
    No one knows when they will be unhealthy do they?


  7. #7
    Senior Member Kashmir_85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Hanafi
    Posts
    1,287

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Good job we have NHS in UK then... all you americans and saudis still paying privately for your health...

    Demand change!!

    Seriously though, another question I would like to pose. In the UK it is against the law not to have car insurance (minimum third party)? Seeing as we know this type of insurance is haram, then are we obliged to purchase it? Because if we dont the risks are far greater, we might get locked up, and for someone with family and responsibilities that will not be good...


  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Shafi'i
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Hi
    I am glad that my brother usama2 has described it very well.
    I want to ask another question that as like insurance, Is treasury bonds or notes are also haram in islam?
    as a mentioned interest rate is received against these bonds.
    I will be honor for me if some one make it clear to me.
    Thanks


  9. #9
    Senior Member tariqa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Don't know
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Quote Originally Posted by Usama2 View Post
    Assalam alaikum

    As one faqih described it, the capitalist system is kufr. Attempting to address various aspects of it, such as the insurance industry or finance industry, as to whether this or that is halal or haram is not representative of Islam.

    To expound upon that, the insurance industry currently functions as a way for insurance firms, and their parent companies, to use policies as a form of commodity to be bought and sold on the market. As well, insurance companies are by law only required to have 10% of a policy in liquidity, the other 90% may be used for investment purposes. The more policies a company has, the more they can tie up in investment. Capitalist culture attempts to persuade consumers and businesses alike to insure any all aspects of risk.

    The 2008 report showed $4.3 trillion dollars in insurance assets worldwide. Japan and USA compose 40% of the entire world market of insurance holders eventhough their combined population is only 6-8% of the world population. . The recent global financial crisis revealed several fraudulent insurance firms, the biggest and most important insurance company in the world, AIG (American International Group) had an absence of liquidity in the 2008 financial crisis. The US Federal Reserve had to save the company by handing over liquid cash for claimants.


    That being said, health insurance is not actual insurance Meaning, health insurance is NOT the aversion of risk to another party- ie. the insurer. Rather, its purchasing services and access to certain facilities and skilled professionals. The fact that its called 'insurance' does NOT mean that the Shariah identifies it as 'insurance'. Rather, its identified as a ii`alah contract: contract for fixed services.

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim
    Sheikh Sa`űd al-Funaysân, former professor at al-Imâm University

    Health insurance is a modern issue that had not been known before – not by this name, nor by anything remotely resembling it. It is problematic in that it resembles life insurance which is certainly unlawful. However, health insurance differs from life insurance in a number of important ways. 1. Life insurance is a contract built upon the unknown. It has uncertainty with respect to the amount that has to be paid as well as with respect to the duration of time. Health insurance differs in that it is a contract for a benefit that is present or has the legal status of being present. Therefore, the contract is free of the unknowns and uncertainties that are inherent in life insurance and that make the life insurance contract an invalid one. 2. Life insurance is a contract of obligatory compensation, like a rental contract, and therefore must be free of unknowns, uncertainties, and the consumption of wealth without right. Health insurance, on the other hand, is a type of ongoing service contract. Such a contract accommodates a degree of unknown factors and uncertainty that is not tolerated in compensatory contracts. Health insurance can be understood within the framework of Islamic Law as being a service contract with a fixed commission – known in classical Islamic legal texts as a ji`âlah contract. The jurists have stated within this context that the following would be a valid, legal contract: “Whoever tends to the patient until he recovers from his injury, sickness, or conjunctivitis, then he will receive such-and-such stated monetary compensation.” Ibn Taymiyah writes:
    The evidence for this is that it is permissible for a doctor to set a fee for healing a patient, in the same way that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) took a number of sheep for the recovery of the district chief. They had treated him by way of ruqyah until he recovered and then took the pre-agreed remuneration. Then the Prophet (peace be upon him) concurred with them in what they did, saying: “Apportion for me with you a share.” The compensation was set was for recovery and not for the reading of the ruqyah itself. If on the other hand, a doctor is given a mandatory fixed wage for achieving the recovery of the patient, it would not be allowed, since it is not within his power to cure the patient. Allah might cure him or He might not do so. [Majmű` al-Fatâwâ]
    At present, insurance companies are commonplace, many of them offering health insurance. It may be that having such insurance is a necessity for a man and the members of his household. Unfortunately, most of these insurance companies do not comply with Islamic Law in their mode of operation. When dealing with such companies is a matter of necessity or obligation, there will be no problem in doing so. However, when doing so is merely a matter of personal preference, it is my opinion is that the policyholder should never draw from the policy more than he has paid into it, even if his medical expenses exceed that amount. And Allah knows best.
    If a job offers you health insurance benefits, and your medical expenses are high, you did not put any money into the coverage. Your job however may have only paid 30,000 dollars for your health insurance and your operation is 60,000 dollars. So when your job offers you health insurance, how could you know for sure if they are not giving more than they are paying for?

    You wont know unless maybe you ask or you refuse their health insurance and buy your own.


    Also you say it differs from health insurance, but you still have to pay money for a condition that may or may not happen, illness. In the event that you never get sick, what happens to the money you have paid? They keep it and you never get it back? There is uncertainty in the question of getting sick or not.


    Also, if you pay health insurance and only take out what you put in, I see no problem with that, however I would like to know what happens to the money if you never need it, and what happens if a job offers you benefits and you do not know how much they have paid for your conditions.
    Wallahu 'alam


  10. #10
    Senior Member tariqa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Brother
    Madhhab
    Don't know
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Health insurance/all insurance is haram as well as hospital work (auto and housin

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir_85 View Post
    Good job we have NHS in UK then... all you americans and saudis still paying privately for your health...

    Demand change!!

    Seriously though, another question I would like to pose. In the UK it is against the law not to have car insurance (minimum third party)? Seeing as we know this type of insurance is haram, then are we obliged to purchase it? Because if we dont the risks are far greater, we might get locked up, and for someone with family and responsibilities that will not be good...
    I believe the scholars have said insurance that cant be avoided is permissible to purchase. However life insurance would not fall into that category because you can avoid living without being fined for not having life insurance and such.
    Wallahu 'alam


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-07-2009, 09:44 AM
  2. Health Insurance Revisited :)
    By hyneln2000 in forum General Islam
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 20-06-2008, 06:25 AM
  3. Health Insurance for a need
    By hyneln2000 in forum General Islam
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-03-2008, 11:12 PM
  4. ANSWERED: Health insurance
    By Yaseen in forum Islam Answers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 27-11-2006, 04:38 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •