subcontinent: deobandi vs barelwi

[Dawud Beale]

salaam I am just wondering does anyone have any info on the progress of the deobandi dawah on the subcontinet. Wikipedia claims berelwi are the majority in india and pakistan, is this true and is the trend changing?

How is the war their affecting things.anti are the government and army pro barelwi? Is the taliban deobandi and has the current assault on fata had any impact on things? Am very interested to build up a picture of things on the subcontinent inshallah

Jazak allahu khair

[IbnShafiq]

Not sure about the 'awaam, but most of the 'Ulama in the SE Asia come from the Deobondi tradition.

[Usman]

salaam I am just wondering does anyone have any info on the progress of the deobandi dawah on the subcontinet. Wikipedia claims berelwi are the majority in india and pakistan, is this true and is the trend changing?

How is the war their affecting things.anti are the government and army pro barelwi? Is the taliban deobandi and has the current assault on fata had any impact on things? Am very interested to build up a picture of things on the subcontinent inshallah

Jazak allahu khair

Deobandis have the largest number of Madaris in Pakistan/ India, so that's why their number is increasing. Moreover, there's a lot of work done by the Jama'atut Tableegh all over the world.

What they claim as barelvis being in larger number, is incorrect. Majority of Muslim people in Pakistan and india are ignorant and illiterates. By that I mean they can't read or write, set aside learning about the Qur'an and Sunnah, so they just follow rituals and festivals held at Tombs of the saints, and since most of the Tombs and Graves are under Barelvi supervision or lie next to barelvi Masajid, the barelvis claim that these all people follow us.

As far as the participation in War against Islam is concerned, most forefront Army personnel in this war are either Shia or Qadyani. Those who follow them, have various reasons of personal interest, and they are not practicing Muslims at all.

The people in Pakistani intelligence Agencies, they use various excuses to satisfy themselves in this war, meaning they are mostly just Muslims by name ( according to the Fatwa they are Murtad though) , yet , again, the lower level personnel tend to join dawat-e-ISlami or other non/Anti-deobandi groups or factions to satisfy their religious urge.

Not only that, there has been progress from the Barelvi Madrassas against Taliban and other Mujahideen who try to establish Shariah in the country.

As examples, Shah Turabul Haq Qadri was Head-Over-Heals in opposing the Hasba Bill in N.W.F.P, saying since Deobandis are dominant in North West Frontier Province, this will put THEM incharge.

The other example is of Late Sarfaraz Naeemi, who was apparently from the Family of Ahmed Yaar Khan Na'eemi ( The Grand Student of Ahmed Ridha khan Barelvi ) , who held conferences and rallies all over Pakistan against Taliban and in support of Government attacks against them.

There are many similar examples, including support of attack on Jamia Hafsa and the Red Mosque, Sunni Tehreek's formation to break Sipah Sahabah, making a Separate Khatmunnubuwwah Group etc etc....

So these are just a few highlights. And I request the "Sister" mods not to delete this , since this is nothing "JIHADI".

[Dawud Beale]

I'm not too sure how stringent they are here with regarding to moderating so ill leave it to your discretion.

I am newish muslim Alhamdulillah and still trying to make sense of everything and its clear that islam is not just a religion its a way of life and perfect ideology. I wish to understand the way forward to success and victory inshallah and be a part of it and contribute to it but I really don't understand who is upon haqh and what to praise allah for. How will the ummah be strong?

If the traditional islam such as deobandi's are the way forward then I iwsh to see how big their proportion of the percentage of the subcontinet is growing in comparison to others. Is crazy sufi islam disappearing or getting stronger with the shrines and singing and dancing?

Do you have references for most of the army being shia as I thought we're supposed to support the army but supporting shia against sunni seems risky.

If I push the boundries please just edited my post and let me know where the boundries are rather than deleting the whole thread as this is a real issues that I meed to get my head around. Preventing me from discussing it will only lead me to discuss elsewhere and allah knows whoch forum ill end up in

[Usman]

Do you have references for most of the army being shia as I thought we're supposed to support the army but supporting shia against sunni seems risky.

I never claimed the Army being Shia mostly. What I said was there are Mostly Shias/Qadyanis on key-posts in the Army. One such example is that Parvez Musharraf's wife is rumored to be Qadyani.

Further, the "Real" last message by Maulana AbdulRasheed Ghazi Shaheed Rahimahullah was that the soldiers who destroyed the inner wall of Lal-Masjid were raising slogans of "YA Ali Madad". The Ex-Minister of Interior , Moinuddin Hyder is Shia. The current President "Asif Ali Zardari" is Shia.

The current Director General of ISPR ( Inter Services Public Relations ) , the Pakistani Intelligence Media Arm is Athar Abbas, a Rafidhi Shia. If you dig deeper, you'll know more about it.

Is crazy sufi islam disappearing or getting stronger with the shrines and singing and dancing?

Fortunately, you have accepted Islam, alHamdulillah. Unfortunately, this is the time of enigmas/trials (Fitnah). At this moment, the anti-Islamic groups are trying their best to eliminated the Just , the Middle Pathway of Islam, and trying to create a vast Chasm among the Muslims 1) Those who commit Shirk/Kufr, yet still claim to be the righteous Muslims (e.g. corrupted Sufis, Shias etc ) 2) Those who claim that whoever doesn't follow EXACTLY their way, is destined for hellfire.

The Deobandis are upon the middle-path, they do Justice alHamdulillah. Being a Deobandi and following the tack of Ulama of Deoband, I've been taught that Deobandi way is the best way among the Sunnis of the Sub-continent. Neither do we claim to be the only saved people nor do we say out-rightly that all non-deobandis are neither Sunni nor Muslims. There might be other Sunnis around the world, who are better than us. I just couldn't find them among the Hanafis, so I stick to Deobandis.

Therefore, I suggest, you adhere to the Beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah ( Sunnis) , and don't worry about the many differences among the Muslims. I'd suggest you study the book "Aqeedatut Tahawiyyah" by Imam Tahawi, which lists the basic beliefs every Sunni should have.

I hope that answers your question.

wasSalaam

[Saalik]

What they claim as barelvis being in larger number, is incorrect. Majority of Muslim people in Pakistan and india are ignorant and illiterates. By that I mean they can't read or write, set aside learning about the Qur'an and Sunnah, so they just follow rituals and festivals held at Tombs of the saints, and since most of the Tombs and Graves are under Barelvi supervision or lie next to barelvi Masajid, the barelvis claim that these all people follow us.

I second this notion. The fact is that most practicing muslims are deobandi inclined rather than brailvee especially in urban and literate societies. Mostly brailvees/false sufis are found in the illeterate and lower communities who are controlled by the false peer/molvis whose all teaching is opposed to the sunnah way of life. These people are stuck in the rasm(customs) (soyim, challeswan, rasme qul, igirwi shareef, fatiha khwani, mazaar parasti) rather then prophetic actions (amaal hasanah) as this is being more stressed by their brailvee ulema in the opposition of deobandi.

Alhamduilah, the work of tablighi jammat is to be given big credits that many thousands of people have and are repenting from that life esp. in rural areas where no ordinary muslims could have thought to go. may Allah flourish more their activities and accept all their efforts.

[hope1]

I second this notion. The fact is that most practicing muslims are deobandi inclined rather than brailvee especially in urban and literate societies. Mostly brailvees/false sufis are found in the illeterate and lower communities who are controlled by the false peer/molvis whose all teaching is opposed to the sunnah way of life. These people are stuck in the rasm(customs) (soyim, challeswan, rasme qul, igirwi shareef, fatiha khwani, mazaar parasti) rather then prophetic actions (amaal hasanah) as this is being more stressed by their brailvee ulema in the opposition of deobandi.

Alhamduilah, the work of tablighi jammat is to be given big credits that many thousands of people have and are repenting from that life esp. in rural areas where no ordinary muslims could have thought to go. may Allah flourish more their activities and accept all their efforts.

Assalamu alaikum,

We went to jamaat in small towns in southern Maharashtra in very rural areas. The brothers there told us that most of the people in the region were bidatis until tabligh started. They said most people used to visit graves and do bidati stuff there but now alhamduliAllah everyone is practicing correct deen.

[Dawud Beale]

Jazak allahu khair brother but I have some excellent books of aqeedah from Ibn taimiyah, muhammed Ibn abdul wahhab, Ibn utheymeen (ra) and more but Jazak allahu khair for the advice. I think deobandi and salafi are not so different and I agree, out of all the hanafi's groups I've seen deobandi appear to be closest to the sunnah. that doesn't include salafi though because they aren't hanafi. But I'd still like to see deobandi flourish and triumph in the subcontinent and Alhamdulillah I'm happy they are trouncing the barelwi's and the likes. I'd like this misguided corrupt sect to vanish inshallah. I've seen some weird things from them, far far away fom the sunnah.

So I get ur point, many in a position of power are deviant. But what about the masses in the army itself? I'm trying to figure what to make dua for in fata with the war right now and I wish for haqh to prevail. The media claim 500 taliban die for every 50 soldiers? So are the majority of soldier barelwi?

I asked a Talib ul ilm who says the best result is if the taliban in afghanistan lay down their arms and work with the afghan government for a stable afghanistan and potentiially they can influence the country to be more islamic so inshallah this sounds promising and I know the opportunity is there.

I wish to know who is most upon the sunnah and whether truth is prevailing over falsehood in the region so that's why I ask. Inshallah the barelwi and other extremely deviant groups disappear from the subcontinent. If anyone has evidence of the decline of barelwi or some statistics that'd be great.

[Dawud Beale]

also is it true taliban are deobandi? Do they do group 'zicker' and things? I think one day inshallah deobandis and salafi's will unite as they both wish to follow orthodox islam rather than crazy distorted islam. Contrary to what a lot of people think, the daily life of a salafi is not that different to the daily life of a deobandi and I'm realising now that in the subcontinent the deobandis and tablighee's are doing good in calling people to a more orthodox islam so hopefully one day these shrines and pirs will disappear inshallah.

I know a lot of hanafi who I like and consider to be upon guidance and I think a major effort to seperaye yourselves from the unorthodox muslims in a clear and disctinct manner and call them to your islam is beneficial.

From the salafi side our main problem are the takferi's and ikhwanis I guess. The only way forward is for the ummah to unite upon one islam so all efforts should be made to unify our deen.we cannot just bodge all muslims together irrespective of shia, , barelwi, ahmadiyah etc and we need to all be upon one islam as best as possible inshallah

[Saalik]

brother, Just call people upon Tauheed and Sunnah without using these icons (deobandi, salafis) in such dawah, insha'Allah we all want to build muslim ummah. Thats my understanding so far by listening the akabireen of deoband/tablighi jamaah.