Is Dr. Israr Ahmed Still Deviant in Beliefs?

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Question for everyone including followers of Dr. Israr Ahmed.

Has Dr. Israr Ahmed given up his deviated beliefs in Evolution of mankind from monkeys?
Hazrat Maulana Yusuf Ludhyaanvi Shaheed RA of Pakistan actually discussed Dr. Israr in detail in his "Aap kay masaael Aur Un Kaa Hal" volume #9.
He told the Dr. to make taubah from his deviated beliefs in evolution and read kalimah again and re-marry his wife.

Given above information, does anyone know if Dr. Israr has repented (and re-read the Kalimah) from

1) wrong belief in evolution?
2) wrongly carrying out Tafseer Bir Raey of the Quran?

Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb believes in no such thing that humans came from Monkeys. In his English lecture "Two Forms of Knowledge" he clearly explains his views on Evolution.

Evolution clearly occurs and is a scientific FACT! BUT there is no evidence that humans came from monkeys etc and to believe in such things is Kuf'r.


Your second objection doesn't render a person Kaafir, even if we were to accpet the Fatwa at face value, at best its an error.

There are errors in Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb's views about Jihad but I am not sure if even that makes him a Kaafir...

The man has served the book of Allah (SWT) for over 40+ years which is much more then most Ulama and people (alike) can produce for their efforts. He has refuted deviants, Hadeeth rejectors and blown them away and saved public from heresy.

What the Deobandi Ulama are now trying to do on TV (i.e. asnwering objections about Islam) he has been doing since 1979!) from his own pocket.

Lets not exaggerate the issue, he is but a man and bound to have committed errors so lets address facts.

There is a Fatwa on Jamia Binoria site which also talks about Dr Israr Ahmed but as usual has no facts in it...We have been here with Dr Farhat Hashmi as well. One half of Ulama issue Fatwaas (with not much details), the other half of Ulama go there give talks and make dua for Allah (SWT) to establish these institutions all over Pakistan.

It doesn't make sense! If there is deviancy and the person is committing Kuf'r then Ulama should first agree amongst each other. If a person is deviant then how come others keep co-operating with him?

In the case of Dr Farhat Hashmi, its Maulana Tariq Jameel.

In the case of Dr Israr Ahmed, it is a long list of Deobandi Ulama who continue to participate and lecture from the platform of Qur'aan Academy, Lahore. Lots of lectures on Terrorism and current affairs (from local Ulama) from Dr Israr Ahmed's place in Lahore.

Latest is this interview of Dr Israr Ahmed on a Deobandi media outlet:

http://www.azaantv.tv/intellecttalk_...asp?str_mid=33

As you can see from the disclaimer that they invite poeple from Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaat.

Here is Zaid Hamid on the same channel:

http://www.azaantv.tv/intellecttalk_...asp?str_mid=35

[The Fake Shaykh]

Dr. Israr Ahmed on Evolution

some of his statements:

At first, it appears that he seems to be ok with evolution.

"Darwin, too, was not entirely wrong in asserting that human biological evolution which is a fact in respect to the natural development of the earthly or animal part of the brain."

then he says:

Initially, he appears to give explicit support to the idea of evolution:

Our animal existence includes life – and it has come from the clay and the crust of the Earth through a very long, very long, very long process of evolution. But our spirits, human spirits, are not from clay or sand.

In fact, he goes as far as to include human evolution:

From the interaction of water and clay started the life on this planet. From a single cell to the most evolved Homo sapiens. It might have taken millions of years…but then Allah…selected one Homo sapiens and blew into him the spirit…Now we have a human being.

Taken these statements together, they seem to endorse an Islamic version of theistic evolution

in another statement he says:

i do believe in evolution but not in Darwinian evolution. Evolution is something else and the mode through which it has taken place is something else. The struggle for existence, and the survival of the fittest, and natural selection – this is wrong. At every change of species, we need another “kun” from God.

The last statement brings him closer to the more traditional creationism

so many contradictory statements within the same session

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Dr. Israr Ahmed on Evolution

some of his statements:

"Darwin, too, was not entirely wrong in asserting that human biological evolution which is a fact in respect to the natural development of the earthly or animal part of the brain."

then he says:

Our animal existence includes life – and it has come from the clay and the crust of the Earth through a very long, very long, very long process of evolution. But our spirits, human spirits, are not from clay or sand.

In fact, he goes as far as to include human evolution:

From the interaction of water and clay started the life on this planet. From a single cell to the most evolved Homo sapiens. It might have taken millions of years…but then Allah…selected one Homo sapiens and blew into him the spirit…Now we have a human being.

in another statement he says:

i do believe in evolution but not in Darwinian evolution. Evolution is something else and the mode through which it has taken place is something else. The struggle for existence, and the survival of the fittest, and natural selection – this is wrong. At every change of species, we need another “kun” from God.

so many contradictory statements within the same session

I personally know of something similar from him. Whats wrong with this statement in terms of Islam?

[The Fake Shaykh]

I personally know of something similar from him. Whats wrong with this statement in terms of Islam?

im not a expert or that learnt in this field but it sounds very similer to usama hassans evolutons theories,

A consistent quranic evolutionary model has to incorporate the information Allah provides us, namely that Adam was made from clay and that Allah breathed into him his spirit to make him into man.

One could argue that when Allah mentions these facts, he is condensing the whole evolutionary process within the verse, i.e. mentioning the start of the evolutionary stage and the end. This then leaves open the possibility of accepting the verses mentioned about creation and the contention that man evolved from apes, as both being true. For example, the clay mentioned could be the substance that brought about simple organisms, then after many years of random mutation and natural selection, apes evolved and further evolution produced homo sapiens. Then, at this evolutionary stage, Allah breathed his spirit creating the final article Adam, the first man as we know it.

However when we explore further evidences closely, we find that there are problems with this model. If we look at the verses

15:28 And lo! Thy Sustainer said unto the angels: "Behold, I am about to create mortal man out of sounding clay, out of dark slime transmuted.

15:29 and when I have formed him fully and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down before him in prostration!

I find it hard to conceive that when Allah says “Behold, I am about to create mortal man out of sounding clay...” to the Angels and Iblis, that at this moment, the entire evolutionary process started for man. The verse itself suggests that the events are happening sequentially.

A further indication is given by Allah about the process in which he created man, in the verse

55:14 He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery.

and allah knows best

[Colonel_Hardstone]

im not a expert or that learnt in this field but it sounds very similer to usama hassans evolutons theories,

A consistent quranic evolutionary model has to incorporate the information Allah provides us, namely that Adam was made from clay and that Allah breathed into him his spirit to make him into man.

One could argue that when Allah mentions these facts, he is condensing the whole evolutionary process within the verse, i.e. mentioning the start of the evolutionary stage and the end. This then leaves open the possibility of accepting the verses mentioned about creation and the contention that man evolved from apes, as both being true. For example, the clay mentioned could be the substance that brought about simple organisms, then after many years of random mutation and natural selection, apes evolved and further evolution produced homo sapiens. Then, at this evolutionary stage, Allah breathed his spirit creating the final article Adam, the first man as we know it.

However when we explore further evidences closely, we find that there are problems with this model. If we look at the verses

15:28 And lo! Thy Sustainer said unto the angels: "Behold, I am about to create mortal man out of sounding clay, out of dark slime transmuted.

15:29 and when I have formed him fully and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down before him in prostration!

I find it hard to conceive that when Allah says “Behold, I am about to create mortal man out of sounding clay...” to the Angels and Iblis, that at this moment, the entire evolutionary process started for man. The verse itself suggests that the events are happening sequentially.

A further indication is given by Allah about the process in which he created man, in the verse

55:14 He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery.

and allah knows best

Dr Israr Ahmed says nothing like Dr Usama Hasan and this may be due to the fact that you havn't heard that whole talk on the subject which I have referenced above.

Dr Israr Ahmed first of all says that the Amr of Allah (SWT) is a "Kun" i.e. if Allah(SWT) wants to do something he (SWT) ORDERS it and it becomes it.

He gives this verse as a Daleel:

إِنَّمَآ أَمۡرُهُ ۥۤ إِذَآ أَرَادَ شَيۡـًٔا أَن يَقُولَ لَهُ ۥ كُن فَيَكُونُ

[36:81] But His command, when He intendeth a thing, is only that he saith unto it: Be! and it is.

He also says that not a leaf can move without the permission and will of Allah (SWT) and he spends considerable time on this point.

Then he says that as a Medical Doctor he believes that evolution occurs but it CANNOT transform species and the notion that humans came from monkeys is FALSE!

BUT as a Muslim he believes that in order for evolution to occur it needs the KUN of Allah (SWT) i.e. in other words things simply cannot evolve without the PERMISSION AND ORDER of Allah (SWT).

Ask any microbiologist (Muslim or otherwise) they will tell you that evolution occurs! When you get an infection and take an Anti-Biotic and it works and next time it doesn't thats evolution!

All Dr Israr Ahmed saysis that the resistence of Bacteria against the Anti-Biotic is due to the PERMISSION AND ORDER of Allah (SWT) i.e. the Bacteria didn't such develop this on their own and independent of Allah (SWT).

P.S: This is my understanding and recollection from memory.

[empz]

Brother "Colonel_Hardstone",
It appears that you are accusing Ulema of Deoband maslak of wrongly having issued fatwa against the activities and Quranic tafseer of Dr. Israr Ahmed. Please beware, you are wrongly accusing all of our classic Ulema of a mistake, whereas Dr. Israr himself (along with Mawdudi) have made mistakes in Tafseer and sometimes in beliefs ( in case of Dr. Israr Ahmed).
Furthermore the activities of greats like Maulana Tariq Jameel DB are not a Hujjat Sharee for us in case of Al-huda international of Farhat Hashmee.

Our Ulema only issue fatwaas against Maududee and Dr Israr Ahmed due to their insistence on Tafseer Bir Raey and due to them not being educated in an Islamic institution of higher learning at the feet of learned Islamic Scholars.

May Allah allow Jamaat-E-Islaami and Tanzeem of Dr. Israr to join in the beliefs and viewpoints of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaat.

Our love for people should not blind us to the fact that they are wrong.

Beware of whom you take the religion of Islam from.

WasSalaam.

[empz]

Tafseer Bir Raey or Tafseer with one's own opinion is not a service to Islam.

If Dr. Israr Ahmed has been doing such activity for 40 years then it cannot be termed a service to Quran in the light of our classical scholars' opinion.

Please note.

[Talhah]

Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb believes in no such thing that humans came from Monkeys. In his English lecture "Two Forms of Knowledge" he clearly explains his views on Evolution.

Evolution clearly occurs and is a scientific FACT! BUT there is no evidence that humans came from monkeys etc and to believe in such things is Kuf'r.


Your second objection doesn't render a person Kaafir, even if we were to accpet the Fatwa at face value, at best its an error.

There are errors in Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb's views about Jihad but I am not sure if even that makes him a Kaafir...

Reply With Quote
Assalamu-‘alaykum wa rahmatullah

Janab muadh khan I admire your deeni work and read your posts with interest. However, gustakhi maaf lekin, you seem to be a bit off the track with regards to your views on muhtarim Dr.Israr Ahmad sahib marhoom (may Allah grant him jannah. Ameen). I have previously posted a bit on dr.israr ahmad sahib as well on: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-away.../page5 and http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...684#post378684.( I noticed some grammatical mistakes in the latter post but I could not fix them). At this moment Ill try to deal with some of your current reservations.

The man has served the book of Allah (SWT) for over 40+ years which is much more then most Ulama and people (alike) can produce for their efforts. He has refuted deviants, Hadeeth rejectors and blown them away and saved public from heresy.

What the Deobandi Ulama are now trying to do on TV (i.e. asnwering objections about Islam) he has been doing since 1979!) from his own pocket.

Theres no doubt that dr israr did appreciable service of deen but simultaneously he also made some considerable mistakes. This case is some what similar to that of dr. zakir naik and maududi sahib. One can not deny the service of deen they did but along with it they also made noteworthy mistakes due to which the laymen are asked to abstain from them (your site, central-mosque.com, too contains articles on why to avoid dr zakir and maududi sahib) since the laymen will not be able to distinguish between right and wrong.

It doesn't make sense! If there is deviancy and the person is committing Kuf'r then Ulama should first agree amongst each other. If a person is deviant then how come others keep co-operating with him?

In the case of Dr Farhat Hashmi, its Maulana Tariq Jameel.

In the case of Dr Israr Ahmed, it is a long list of Deobandi Ulama who continue to participate and lecture from the platform of Qur'aan Academy, Lahore. Lots of lectures on Terrorism and current affairs (from local Ulama) from Dr Israr Ahmed's place in Lahore.

Nobody gave fatwa of kufr on dr israr sahib! And as for cooperating with deviant people then many of our great ulama have worked in cooperation with deviant groups to achieve a common goal. For example during the tahreek khatm-e-nabuwwat, all the muslim groups, along with the rafidhis (who are not even muslims!), united to work against qadyanism but this does not mean that our ulama endorsed the beliefs of the deviant people they worked with. Similarly if some ulama did some cooperation with dr israr sahib than this does not mean that they endorse all of the views of dr israr sahib. Also when ulama like mufti rafi usmani and mufti zar wali khan sahib praised dr israr sahib they also mentioned that they had some differences with dr israr sahib or that dr israr had weaknesses. The ulama did not oppose dr israr as they opposed people like maududi because dr israr was not as such deviant.

Ask any microbiologist (Muslim or otherwise) they will tell you that evolution occurs! When you get an infection and take an Anti-Biotic and it works and next time it doesn't thats evolution!

The kind of evolution condemned is the one which says that the life started as a co-incidence first in the form of a bacterium (plural: bacteria) and this bacterium evolved into sooooo many different kinds of species. This baseless theory was formulated by atheists so that they could answer the question that who created all these creatures and universe. So they came up with this absurd answer that it was by chance and on its own. Inter-speciation (i.e. evolving from one specie to another) is, to my knowledge, condemned by the mainstream ulama. The latter has no scientific basis as well since there have been no fossils found so far which could show the different stages between the evolution of a specie from one to another (this is labeled as the “missing link” by the scientists). For more details one can refer to the works of harun yahya on this subject.

As for the evolution of bacteria in developing resistance to antibiotics then if by it the darwinists try to suggest that this is a proof that the DNA of the bacteria can change (mutate) to suit the environment and this shows that larger organisms too can have their DNA changed thereby transforming them into other species (eg from an ape-like ancestor to better developed humans) then this assertion will be incorrect since research shows that its not that the DNA “builts” genes to develop anti-biotic resistance rahter such genes are already present in some of the bacteria. What happens is that when antibiotics wipe out the bacteria, those bacteria containing antibiotic resistance survive and multiply thus a larger population of anti-biotic resistant bacteria is developed. Note that no DNA is changing here but rather the anti-biotic resistant gene was already present. It was the frequency of the latter genes that increased in that particular population of bacteria.

Huh.. sorry for explaining all this boring biology!

As for what dr israr thinks of evolution then I am not sure about it. Maybe ill have to ask one of his grandsons about it who is also a friend of mine.

Khayr my only point was that dr israr was no doubt a great khadim of deen but he also made some mistakes due to which the laymen are asked to avoid him. May Allah accept dr isrars good work and forgive him for his mistakes. Ameen.

Wallahu A’lam

May Allah also guide gunahgars like me. Ameen

Wassalaam
Sayyid Muhammad Talhah ‘afaa Allah ‘anh

[saqfu]

i very much doubt that dr israr ahmed had such deviated beliefs. he had very deep udertsanding of the quran. so he couldnt possibly believe in evolution.

[Ahnaf Defender]

Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb believes in no such thing that humans came from Monkeys. In his English lecture "Two Forms of Knowledge" he clearly explains his views on Evolution.

Evolution clearly occurs and is a scientific FACT! BUT there is no evidence that humans came from monkeys etc and to believe in such things is Kuf'r.


Your second objection doesn't render a person Kaafir, even if we were to accpet the Fatwa at face value, at best its an error.

There are errors in Dr Israr Ahmed Saheb's views about Jihad but I am not sure if even that makes him a Kaafir...

The man has served the book of Allah (SWT) for over 40+ years which is much more then most Ulama and people (alike) can produce for their efforts. He has refuted deviants, Hadeeth rejectors and blown them away and saved public from heresy.

What the Deobandi Ulama are now trying to do on TV (i.e. asnwering objections about Islam) he has been doing since 1979!) from his own pocket.

Lets not exaggerate the issue, he is but a man and bound to have committed errors so lets address facts.

There is a Fatwa on Jamia Binoria site which also talks about Dr Israr Ahmed but as usual has no facts in it...We have been here with Dr Farhat Hashmi as well. One half of Ulama issue Fatwaas (with not much details), the other half of Ulama go there give talks and make dua for Allah (SWT) to establish these institutions all over Pakistan.

It doesn't make sense! If there is deviancy and the person is committing Kuf'r then Ulama should first agree amongst each other. If a person is deviant then how come others keep co-operating with him?

In the case of Dr Farhat Hashmi, its Maulana Tariq Jameel.

In the case of Dr Israr Ahmed, it is a long list of Deobandi Ulama who continue to participate and lecture from the platform of Qur'aan Academy, Lahore. Lots of lectures on Terrorism and current affairs (from local Ulama) from Dr Israr Ahmed's place in Lahore.

Latest is this interview of Dr Israr Ahmed on a Deobandi media outlet:

http://www.azaantv.tv/intellecttalk_...asp?str_mid=33

As you can see from the disclaimer that they invite poeple from Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaat.

Here is Zaid Hamid on the same channel:

http://www.azaantv.tv/intellecttalk_...asp?str_mid=35

Asslam-o-Alaikum,

Colonel Hardstone i didn't expect this from you. How can u support Farhat Hashmi ??? I don't think any Ulema has declared her kafir but a fitnah. and how can u say "One Half" , every ulema declares her a fitnah and I think Maulana Tariq Jamil Sb. only went to there once and that was to give a bayan. If you listened the bayan carefully , he brought forward many of the wrong masail told by farhat hasmi , like Hijab of Women Voice , Tafseer bir Raee and etc.

If Maulana Sb. went there to fo tabligh you can't call only him "One Half" and keep in mind Maualna Sb. even went to brailvies in their mizaars for bayans does that also makes the brailvies on the right path.

I don't know if Dr. Israr Ahmed gave up his deviant beliefs but there is a book written by Maulana Mufti Abdul Wahid Sahab about his belives.

Name : "Dr. Israr Ahmed Kay Afkar o Nazriyat"
Author : Hazrat Dr. Mufti Abdul Wahid
Link : http://www.nazmay.com/Islamic-Books/Dr-Israr-Ahmed.pdf

and about Dr.Farhat Hasmi check this book out.

Name :"Al-Huda International Kia Hai"
Link : http://ahlehaq.com/ah/index.php?opti...d=204&catid=18