Promoting unity

**goldenhawk786** · 13-01-2010, 08:34 AM

In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful. Peace and blessings be upon the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) and his family of Muhammad (S).

I want to re-start the topic again as the prevoius thread was closed down for unknown reason. I was a sunni and have become a shia through independant research using reason and interllect. I came on this forum to discuss with my sunni brothers our differences in a civilised manner. This in my view, will have two results. The first being that it will remove mis-conceptions and prejiduce. it will remove hatred and enmity and false propoganda by the enemies of islam. Secondly, it will promote unity among this ummah which the kaafr are trying so much to keep it divided.

Of course there will be "muslims" who don't want to see unity amongst muslims and want only to promote fitna. they will just come here and swear and preach their hatred, but this should not deter the genuine person who wishes to close the gap between muslims. this thread is intended for those people.

I want to make some points clear. I don't mind being criticized about my faith, which is understandable. I dont mind people asking me questions in a civilised way. i will give answers if i know them which you can say that you still disagree and not beleive. Thats ok. i dont have a problem with that. I am not here to convert you. Even the holy prophet (S) could not convince everyone. it is allah's will whom he guides and whome he does not.

But I will not reply to any post who says that i am lying or doing taqiya, which most people dont know what it actually means, but thats not the point here. those people who say to me that i am lying all the time, then you will be stupid to even ask me anything. Basically that means you have already judged me and hung me, so it will be pointless be replying to such brainwashed people. no point going to a court case trying to defend yourself when the judge and jury have already made up thier minds and will hang you regardless is there ? So feel free to ask and get a good mannered debate started. I hope and pray to allah that muslims character are reflected in their questions as character is very important in islam. jazakallah

**Usama2** · 13-01-2010, 09:38 AM

Salam alaikum

Let me tell you a story.
After 9/11/01 and during the build up to invade Iraq, the sunni imam of a city who led several masajid, made a public remark on TV that he said the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam would be a good thing, thus saying he supported this act to the nonMuslims. He privately said he did not want the kufar in Iraq, but the public statement was made and rebroadcasted. A group of Muslims approached him, rebuked him according to Islam, and afterwards approached the Islamic organization to censure and stand against this imam.
This group of brothers gathered several times around the city and heard long standing complaints and problems with this imam to present to the organizational council.
One brother went to a separate, independent Shia center because he heard that they had some problems with this imam in the past. When he arrived at a gathering at this Shia center, the people greeted him, but they refused to participate regarding any past problems, which was their right. However, several brothers approached this one brother and began berating Aisha and Umar (rah) to his face. They made scurrilous statements and then tried to use hadith from al Bukhari to support their claims.
The brother left the Shia 'center' .

On what issues is there unity brother? The Shia of this 'center' did not pray at the Sunni masajid, nor did they hold regular salah at their 'center'.
Its not known that these Shia ever attended any masjid in the area.

Its known that the Shia did NOT oppose the American invasion of Iraq. In fact they supported it. The leading Shia alim, ayatullah Sistani, refused call forth the Shia army, the SCIRI, in unity with the Sunni resistance. Instead, the Sunni resistance was allowed to be crushed, and even the Shia worked with America to gain power over and to defeat the Sunnis.
The opportunity for unity was there. Sunnis reached out many times for unity but without a reply.

Even the Shia militia fighting America in Karbala was not supported by the Shia SCIRI. Right at the grave of Ali (rah), the Shia betrayed each other just like they betrayed the beloved al Hussein bin Ali (raa).

Brother, consider that when it comes to unity.

Allah knows best.

**goldenhawk786** · 13-01-2010, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Usama2

Salam alaikum
Let me tell you a story.
After 9/11/01 and during the build up to invade Iraq, the sunni imam of a city who led several masajid, made a public remark on TV that he said the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam would be a good thing, thus saying he supported this act to the nonMuslims. He privately said he did not want the kufar in Iraq, but the public statement was made and rebroadcasted. A group of Muslims approached him, rebuked him according to Islam, and afterwards approached the Islamic organization to censure and stand against this imam.
This group of brothers gathered several times around the city and heard long standing complaints and problems with this imam to present to the organizational council.
One brother went to a separate, independent Shia center because he heard that they had some problems with this imam in the past. When he arrived at a gathering at this Shia center, the people greeted him, but they refused to participate regarding any past problems, which was their right. However, several brothers approached this one brother and began berating Aisha and Umar (rah) to his face. They made scurrilous statements and then tried to use hadith from al Bukhari to support their claims.
The brother left the Shia 'center' .

Well brother, if have not heard this story before so i can't comment. I totally oppose swearing at aisha whom is the mother of the beleivers. i wont swear at umar either. i wont swear even at hindu gods. this is command from god. this goes against our character. the holy prophet (S) did not swear so why should we? let me make it clear, all those swearing, whether shia or sunni or whatever faith they belong to is wrong. if a shia swears or insults your faith, i would reprimand him and i am sure you would do that to a sunni who is doing the same at shias. there are ingnorant people on BOTH sides. thats what we need to address and educate.

On what issues is there unity brother? The Shia of this 'center' did not pray at the Sunni masajid, nor did they hold regular salah at their 'center'.
Its not known that these Shia ever attended any masjid in the area.

Its known that the Shia did NOT oppose the American invasion of Iraq. In fact they supported it. The leading Shia alim, ayatullah Sistani, refused call forth the Shia army, the SCIRI, in unity with the Sunni resistance. Instead, the Sunni resistance was allowed to be crushed, and even the Shia worked with America to gain power over and to defeat the Sunnis. The opportunity for unity was there. Sunnis reached out many times for unity but without a reply.

Well brother, i think you have got your sources wrong. you show me one quote from the shia ulema that they were r are pleased with the americans. they were pleased that sadam was removed one way or another as he was a evil dictator who used to oppress sunni and shia. i can give you so many quotes where shia's are united with the sunnies and encourage co-existance. its only certain groups, like the deobandis and the wahabies who are causing this problem.

secondly, If what you are saying is true, then why would iran support the palastinians who are sunni? infact iran is one of the few countries that are speaking out againt israel and the usa. the rest of the "sunni" countires dare not oppose USA or israel. look at eygpt, jordan, saudi arabia (who invited the kaafirs into the holy land during the first iraq war), yemen, USA, Oman, pakistan ect.. the list goes on and on brother. thses are all sunni countries yet they dare not oppose or tell the israel or USA to get lost.

Even the Shia militia fighting America in Karbala was not supported by the Shia SCIRI. Right at the grave of Ali (rah), the Shia betrayed each other just like they betrayed the beloved al Hussein bin Ali (raa).

thats not true at all. again check from NEUTRAL sources and you will find the truth. what you are quoting me there is from an anti-shia website.

Brother, consider that when it comes to unity.

imam khomenie has emphazied on unity with sunnis. you want quotes? i have plenty if you want. but you wont find them on anti-shia sourices because they want this fitna and poison to spreaed. in fact the al-quds day was started by the shia scholar in support of palastine. need i say more brother?

I can't argue with your last statement.

Allah knows best.

[/QUOTE]
I can't argue with your last statement.

**umar_italy** · 13-01-2010, 10:03 AM

to Muslims.

This rethoric of "unity" isn't but a tool used by the Rawafid to be acccepted among Muslims, and their usual next step is to begin their "da'wah" in a very subtle way, little by little giving distorted informations about the Sahabah (ra), and so on.

This is a well-known strategy that whoever has any experience in dealing with them will confirm to be used by every Rafidi Shi'ah.

Simply, the unity is upon Haqq, not upon political objectives or utopias.

We don't need unity with kuffar; Muslims aren't in need of great numbers, they are in need of Haqq.

**goldenhawk786** · 13-01-2010, 11:38 AM

@ umar_italy....Clearly you did not read my post number 1 carefully therefore you are on my ignore list.

**Aashiq-e-Rasool(saw)** · 13-01-2010, 11:44 AM

Well in the last thread I didnt misbehave with you but still i didnt get the asnwer..

Okay let me help you if are really looking for the right path InshALLAH.. When i was in the dilemma of Sunni/Shia, what i did as a sunni was asked sunni scholars whatever doubts i had, eg Why did Syeddina Siddiq-e-Akbar(ra) didnt give Syeda Fatima Zahra(ra) her fadak? So if you have any doubt regarding the belief then ask..

As for promoting unity, We as sunni believe that shia will be in Hell forever, and We also know you shiites believe that Sunnis will be in hell forever.. so are u getting what im trying to say.. If not, let me explain, THERE IS NO UNITY BETWEEN AHL-UL-SUNNAT WAL JAMAAT AND SHIAISM...

And PLEASE dont get angry again with people and not asnwer them as a result like you did in the last thread

**goldenhawk786** · 13-01-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Aashiq-e-Rasool(saw)

Well in the last thread I didnt misbehave with you but still i didnt get the asnwer..

I have not accused you of anything brother. you may feel free to ask any question. if you could again please ask your question, i would be happy to help.

Okay let me help you if are really looking for the right path InshALLAH.. When i was in the dilemma of Sunni/Shia, what i did as a sunni was asked sunni scholars whatever doubts i had, eg Why did Syeddina Siddiq-e-Akbar(ra) didnt give Syeda Fatima Zahra(ra) her fadak? So if you have any doubt regarding the belief then ask..

I have read on this topic extensively , and this was one of the reasons which made me convert. i asked sunni and shia ulema about this event and found my satisfaction from the shia ulema. why dont you do the same. you have said you have only spoken to sunni ulema, but for a independant and objective research requires that you investigate any event from BOTH sides.you may still not agree with the shia ulema and stick with the sunnies but at least you can say that you have given the shia ulema a fair hearing.thats the problem these days and thats one of the reasons why there is no unity. people dont goto the opposite camp and ask their side of the story.thats why the kaafir dont like islam becuase they just hear from one side of the story.

As for promoting unity, We as sunni believe that shia will be in Hell forever, and We also know you shiites believe that Sunnis will be in hell forever.. so are u getting what im trying to say.. If not, let me explain, THERE IS NO UNITY BETWEEN AHL-UL-SUNNAT WAL JAMAAT AND SHIAISM...

There is brother. i didnt say you are going to hell forever. even if i beleived you are going to hell forever, then you can remove my mis-conceptions, if any, i have towards your faith. also that does not mean we cant talk to one another. you beleive that all non-muslims will be going to hell foreever, but does that mean you will never talk to them and debate with them? did the holy prophet (S) do this when talking to people of other faiths ? we should follow the sunnah. do you agree brother ?

And PLEASE dont get angry again with people and not asnwer them as a result like you did in the last thread

I will try to answer people's questions DEPENDING on the way they ask them. i have no problem with critizism, but i have a problem with people who swear, insult etc...salam

**xs11ax** · 13-01-2010, 02:14 PM

can the shia tellme what makes them different from the sunnis. what is different in your religion that gives you a different identity from the sunnis?

**Aashiq-e-Rasool(saw)** · 13-01-2010, 02:20 PM