Sunni view on Shiah - Rawafid - Twelvers?

[meelash]

I was replying on your claim regarding us being brainwashed, and you asking me to cool down. Well, who could cool down after reading the kufr fatwas in the first two pgs of the threads in this forum by your classical takfiri scholars. All I did was tell you it is because of the fatwas of these takfiri scholars, because of whose orders you remain blind folded and extreme towards shias, whereas Al-Azhar the moderate scholars among Ahle Sunnah have opened up to realize that the reality is different and this is nothing but fanaticism.

But don't you see, just telling us something is not dialogue. Dialogue is bringing reason and explaining ones views and listening to the same for others views. You telling that so-and-so supports your view is meaningless because our Islam is not on the basis of what al-Azhar or anyone else says. You can't accuse us of blindfold when all those pages of fataawa explained *why*. On the other hand you don't know why, you just want us to believe what you say because you say it. That is evidence that you are either blindfolded or attempting to blindfold. That is why I suggest to you to open your mind and reexamine who is really brainwashed here.

[MAFHHZB]

But don't you see, just telling us something is not dialogue. Dialogue is bringing reason and explaining ones views and listening to the same for others views. You telling that so-and-so supports your view is meaningless because our Islam is not on the basis of what al-Azhar or anyone else says. You can't accuse us of blindfold when all those pages of fataawa explained *why*. On the other hand you don't know why, you just want us to believe what you say because you say it. That is evidence that you are either blindfolded or attempting to blindfold. That is why I suggest to you to open your mind and reexamine who is really brainwashed here.

I was not telling you "something". I was relating to you the facts in relation to the topic of this thread.

Those fataawa of these classical scholars, as I explained are based on emotions, because as far as I have experienced through my studies, dialogue and perception, Ahle Sunnah cannot support their Aqeedah or ideology through the Qur'an.
If your classical scholars based the takfiri fatawa because of us not accepting Abu Bakr and Umar as our Imams, first of all - do you consider Caliphate/Leadership after the Prophet(s)'s death part of your religion, or just politics? If you don't consider it a mandatory part of religion like we consider Imammat and include it in our Usool e Deen, then why call others kafirs if they reject the post of your leaders if politics or caliphate are not part of your pillars of faith ?

If it is part of your pillar of faith, which it is not, because your pillar of faith is just filled with islamic practices like Salat,etc, then support using the criterias in the Qur'an that they deserve this Imammat position, because as far as I have come to understand, the criteria of the Qur'an goes against them.

As for companions in general, again your aqeedah is against the teachings of the Qur'an as to who is to be labelled a companion. You don't allot the title of companions per the standards in the Qur'an. Your narrow minded version is just very fairy tale like, where all remained innocent angels floating in the sky after the Prophet(s)'s death, and that they all lived happily ever after. Just like each of my five fingers are different from one another, so are the companions, and Satan never disappeared after Prophet(s) death, I can guarantee you that.

I don't know if dialogue is permitted in this forum and I won't have much time to dialogue as I will begin work in a few days, but I can share my understanding for sometime, while I am here,

wasalam

[MAFHHZB]

The following is our view on who could be called a real Sahaba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqmkIbDo9Pc

[AbuMuslimKhorasani]

@ MAFHHZB

That video wasn't worthy of a subtitle.

First Shiites call the Majority of Sahaba Apostates and Munafiq. It is really amazing that shiites are suprised by our belief about the Companions (ra) but it is Ok if they call MAJORITY of them Munafiqs and Apostates. There is a clear cut verse about following them. The Sahaba were not infallible, just because they fought each other doesn't they became Kafir or Munafiq (ayazubillah). It is the shiite mentality that declares Takfir of Sahaba just like their brothers the Khawarij. Infact, the shiiites are worse than Khawarij. The Sonnah of the Prophet (saw) is narrated by the Sahaba (ra), your ahadeeth is narrated by liars and unknown people and you hardly have narrations of the Prophet (saw). 90% of your narrations are not from the Prophet (saw).

This is proven from the authentic books of the Shiites that Sahaba apostated after the death of the Prophet (saw). See proof Narration 1, Narration 2, Narration 3.

Narration 1:
From Hannan ibn Sadeer from his father, from Abu Jafar (alaihi salam): “People became apostates after prophet (s) except 3 of them”. I said: “Which 3 of them?” He said: Al-Miqdad ibn al-Aswad, Abu Dharr al-Qifari, Salman al-Farisi….

Narration 2:
“From Abu Baseer: I said to Abu Abdullah: “Apostated people except 3 of them: Abu Dharr, Salman and al-Miqdad”. And Abu Abdullah (alaihi salam) said: “Where are Abu Sasan and Abu Amrah al-Ansare?”

Narration 3:
From Abu Bakr al-Hadrami: Abu Jafar said: People apostated except 3 of them: Salman, Abu Dharr and Miqdad.

Read more here:
http://gift2shias.com/category/shia-vs-companions/

Also:
Verdict of Muslim scholars upon Rafizis

[ALIASGAR_SHAH]

Salaam Brother,

Being a Muslim i have Prophet saws as my role model. The Prophet saws's way of giving dawah was not through hatred but through Wahi and love and tolerence. Yes we have to be stern agaisnt the kuffar who fight agaisnt us and we have to fight until Allah's word is supreme but my point is the dawah.

The shiites are divided into many sects like imamis and they too are akharis and usulis, we have zaidis, ismailis, ghali shias, nusayri shias and many more. As for Zaidis they are very close to the Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah as they do not speak ill of the companions, the school of Imam Zaid r.a holds Ali k.w more deserving to be the successor of Prophet saws than Abu Bakr and Umar r.anhuma. This is also the view of Imam Zaid bin Ali Zainul Abideen r.a. History books are replete with this stance against the tabbari rawafidh.

When Zaid bin Ali was asked about his opinion on the shaykhain r.a then he praised them and denounced the doctrine of the kufi shiites and they deserted him and hence the name rejectors of Zaid r.a , the rawafidh word was coined for them. The fiqh of Zaidis is nearer to the fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifa r.a. Zaid was from Ahle bayt and i do not rule out the tamerpings and changes to the origional fiqh of Zaid. So my point is that Abu Hanifa r.a was the student of Zaid bin Ali r.a in tafseer of Quran. He helped him in his rebellion. No one from Ahle sunnah has declared verdict of kufr on them but they are held as people of bidah by some and people who went away from Jamaah of Muslims.

As for Imamiyah then i am very sure that in the hanafi school there is no Ijmaa on their being KAFIRS. i DO NOT SAY THIS BUT sHAH wALIYULLAH R.A SAID THIS WHEN A PERSON ASKED HIS VIEW ON THE sHIITES.

Yes Shah sahib called them heretics and biddatis and astray lot of people. We cannot generalize Imamis until we know their aqeedah as it is narrated from Imam shafi'i and Abu Hanifa r.anhuma that we do nto delare the people of Qiblah as Kafirs. So the matter is not as easy as you think. There is ijmaa on their being not from the saved sect but on their being kafirs it is to be attested only if they malign the honored status of Bibi Ayesha r.a and they call the khulafaa e rashidin r.a as murtad apostates Mazallah! or they believe the Quran is Tampered and that Imams are afzal to Ambiyaaa a.s.

Wasalam

Ali

[Ahmed_Abdullah_01]

I thought arguing with the Quranites was hard. Coming across this thread shows just how woefully brainwashed the Shi'ites are. Well, hidayah can only come from Allah s.w.t., which of course you Shi'ites don't believe in. There is sufficient proof, threads, debates and videos on the Internet for your Shi'ites to learn why we muslims say you are out of the fold of Islam, but you keep thinking we are also of the Taqiyya doctrine just like you, thus you can never listen to the truth until you leave than doctrine. Most of you laymen Shi'ites have been thoroughly brainwashed by your tire head Khamenei, Sistani and the like that you can't tell the difference. Of course now with the fact that you have allied yourselves with the Alawites to kill us muslims in Syria, that pretty much shows your true colours. Repent and return to Islam and stop the shirk practices.