Banning shia's from Hajj

[StopS]

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

The assassin of `Ali (ra) is known, he is from a group of rebels (same groups that killed `Uthman (ra)), his name is Ibn Muljam and he killed `Ali (ra) because `Ali (ra) agreed to a peaceful arbitration with Mu`awiyah (ra), and since the man considered Mu`awiyah (ra) to a be a Kafir so he did not agree on what `Ali (ra) did, he turned on him and this was planned.

If you can see the chart I drew above, Ibn Muljam is from the "Khawarij" group.

So there is a consensus that Mu`awiyah (ra) did NOT assassinate `Ali (ra) if you wish

Also it is important to mention that Mu`awiyah (ra) and some of his men were attacked by men from that same sect, actually companions of Ibn Muljam himself, and Mu`awiyah (ra) remained bed ridden for a long time, in a very bad condition because he was stabbed during prayer and he almost died in an assassination attempt.

Thank you for the explanation. My question was not about the assassins themselves (Abdur Rahman bin Muljam), but the figures behind it.

I know of 2 different conspiracy theories and I was hoping for clarification.

The one theory is that all political leaders (Ali, Muawiya and Amr bin Aas) were to be assassinated to clear the political fighting in Medina. This would explain the events you mentioned in your last sentence.
The other says it was Muawiya alone who was behind it and had lured people in with false promises and the other attempts were just for show.

And then of course it could be possible that it was the act of revenge for the leniency of not sufficiently punishing the killers of Uthman in 656.

Any substantiated opinion?

[TripolySunni]

Thank you for the explanation. My question was not about the assassins themselves (Abdur Rahman bin Muljam), but the figures behind it.

I know of 2 different conspiracy theories and I was hoping for clarification.

The one theory is that all political leaders (Ali, Muawiya and Amr bin Aas) were to be assassinated to clear the political fighting in Medina. This would explain the events you mentioned in your last sentence.
The other says it was Muawiya alone who was behind it and had lured people in with false promises and the other attempts were just for show.

And then of course it could be possible that it was the act of revenge for the leniency of not sufficiently punishing the killers of Uthman in 656.

Any substantiated opinion?

Salam,

Everything I said above is substantiated by the proper historical narrations, I just summed it up for you, as for conspiracy theories they have no place in Islam's Religion or History because they are built on "Guess work" and "Desire", we take only what is apparent and refrain from diving into theories and the like.

Note: Their assassination attempts weren't aimed at "stopping the fighting in Madinah", in fact none of the fighting took place in or around Madinah, the assassinations were the result of a rebellious sect of heretics which the prophet (SAWS) fore-told, they hated Mu`awiyah (ra) more than `Ali (ra) but considered both to be Kouffar, I will talk more about this sect later if time permits Insha-Allah. (Sadly time isn't permitting).

[TripolySunni]

The essence of my point can be made from your chart. The khawarij in essence made takfir as well as insulted the sahabahs and infact murdered them. But how did ssahabah treat them ? Where they treated as default mushriks as some members here think the shia Iran should be treated when Muslims wage jihad on Iran ? Were the khawarij prevented from doing hajj ? Were they prevented from praying in a sunni mosque? Did they have the rights of a muslim in dar al islam ?

al-Salamu `Aleykum,

I did some reading on the Khawarij, not much but hopefully enough to give an answer, the book doesn't dive into details but discusses the main sects of Khawarij and Shia and their origins and beliefs, a very good book actually: "Dirasah `an al-Firaq fi Tareekh al-Muslimeen" by Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Jali.

The Prophet (SAWS) in his prophecy stated that there will be a team of Khawarij that will act like pious Muslims but are Kouffar, and he described them and described the time of their appearance and who shall fight them and so on...

Now these men first appeared in an un-organised form in the time of `Uthman (ra), later they joined `Ali (ra) and turned on him, these reciters of the Quran had several arguments as to why they think `Ali (ra) has committed Kufr and should be abandoned, just like `Uthman (ra) refuted these claims `Ali (ra) also refuted them, and did not wish to fight them because he saw them to be pious Muslims who pray a lot and recite the Quran a lot, this drove him to reach out to them and try to settle things peacefully and avoid Fitnah, he told them that he would allow them into the mosques and allow them to perform Hajj and grant them the rights of average Muslims as long as they did not fight him, BUT THEN the true form of the Khawarij became apparent, they made Takfeer on everyone who did not agree with them and started killing them as if they were Kouffar... `Ali (ra) then realized that this was the sect that the Prophet (SAWS) talked about, so he declared their Kufr and waged Jihad against them.

As far as Takfeer goes, the Twelver Shia of today are the biggest sect of Takfeeris I've ever seen, as far as fighting their opponents, the Khawarij were much more noble and courageous than the Shia so they openly fought and declared the Kufr of their opponents, on the other hand the Shia were almost always weak, they would hide their beliefs using Taqqiyah, but when they assume power, and reach a position of authority, based on history they did commit horrible massacres against their those who oppose them, especially the Safawiyyah in and around Persia, they forced the entire Sunni country to adopt Shiasm at the tip of the sword.

So the only difference here is between these two deviant sects, is that one is open about their beliefs, and one is sly, they keep their beliefs hidden until they assume control.

[Melbourne]

If you go further and in depth to investigate about instructions of the present Shiite Ulema you will find that they (especially Ayatullah Khamenei - The Supreme Leader) instruct us to pray behind our Sunni brothers (especially in Hajj). This brings unity. We are to bring unity towards the Umma and not division! Only in this way will we be able to defeat the enemies of our Holy Religion.

That is just taqiyya! I personally don't have a problems with the Shia doing hajj, but what I have a problem with is the lies! Bringing unity to defeat our enemies? Our enemies are not the Shias enemies! Eg: the clear kuffar of Syria the Assad regime, you Shia are the ones who support this demon while he slaughters our brothers and sisters.. And this you call unity to defeat our enemies? Shame on you!

[ALIASGAR_SHAH]

Assalamualaykum all my brethren in Islam,

Two sects emerged at the height of their maturity in the time of Sayyidina Maula Ali k.w and they were Khawarij and Rawafidh. The Prophet saws said in a sahih hadith that Ya Ali with regards to you two people will be ruined one which hates you and one which goes in excess in your love. At the end , rather the last ohase of the khilafah of Sayyidina Uthman bin Affan r.a the khawarij emerged, they were not companions of Prophet saws so either they were newly convert muslims or they were sons of newly converted muslims.


Hazrat Ali r.anhu fought them because they started massacering innocent people and whosoever who held Ali k.w to be rightful Khalifa and this because of the event of Siffin where the men of Muawiyah r.a came with a trick which was to raise the pages of Quran an Kerim on the lances , this was as per the suggestion of Hazrat Amr bin Al Aaas r.a as Amio Muawiyah r.a was loosing the civil war between him and Imam Ali r.a.

Amir Muawiyah r.a was wrong and his men rebelled against the righful Kahlif Ali k.w but yes this mistake was due to mistake of Ijtihad and Imam Ali k.w was on right, it was Ali r.a and his army which fought against Khwarij as the Prophet saws has foretold.

It was Ammar bin yasar r.a who was fighting alongside Ali k.w and he was Martyred by men of Amir Muwayiah r.a and Owais al Karni r.a also joined the Army of Ali k.w. The Badris, Muhajirin and Ansaar were with Ali k.w.

Anyways my point is that we as Ahle sunnah say Ali k.w did not consider Khwarij as Kafirs but astray lot of people , they did not agree with arbiteration where a new Caliph would be chosen because they said Judgement belongs to Allah alone. But Ali r.a proved them through Quran the fallacy of their beliefs. he r.a said this is a right statement but by whcih something wrong is meant.

Ibn Abbas r.a changed many of the khawarij back to right path pf Jamaah and they then joined the army of Ali k.w

The shias as far as their case is concerned they are not counted amongst the saved sect of Islam as the Prophet saws said the path of mine and my companions but the ****es consider majority of companions as astray and murtad Nauzobillah min Zaalik.

And they are the opposite of khawarij and the right way is the way of people of Sunnah who love the Ahle bayt and the companions of Prophet saws and Ali k.w is included in Ahle bayt.

As for takfir on shiites then there is no ijmaa on the takfir on shiites and their bannign from hajj ebcause we cannot generalize them but once their aqeeda is known on a personal level then depending on the kufr we can do takfir.

In India we have Imamiya and they are the largest sect followed by Zaidis, Zaidis are nearer to Ahle sunnah wal jamaah and as for Imamiya then they are astray muslims and we do not consider them as Non-Muslims but muslims who are astray and not among the saved sect and the right path of Sunnah.

May Allah guide them.

Wasalamualaykum

Ali Asghar Shah

[Younes]

As-salamu 'alaikum

Was the arbitration between Ali (ra) and Muawiayh (ra) about who should be the Caliph, as Ali Asgar said? If so, isn't this an indication that the matter between Ali (ra) and Muawiayh (ra) wasn't simply about the blood of Uthman (ra)?

[TripolySunni]

As-salamu 'alaikum

Was the arbitration between Ali (ra) and Muawiayh (ra) about who should be the Caliph, as Ali Asgar said? If so, isn't this an indication that the matter between Ali (ra) and Muawiayh (ra) wasn't simply about the blood of Uthman (ra)?

Most of the things spread in books about the story of Tahkeem aren't true, now you brothers would really save me some time translating stuff if you would download volume 2 of the biography of `Ali (ra), written by one of the best Muslim historians Dr.`Ali al-Sallabi:
http://www.kalamullah.com/ali-sallabi.html

^ Then read page 160 and what is after it, and read page 207 and what is after it.

[Younes]

Most of the things spread in books about the story of Tahkeem aren't true, now you brothers would really save me some time translating stuff if you would download volume 2 of the biography of `Ali (ra), written by one of the best Muslim historians Dr.`Ali al-Sallabi:
http://www.kalamullah.com/ali-sallabi.html

^ Then read page 160 and what is after it, and read page 207 and what is after it.

As-salamu 'alaikum

I read those parts now. I until the chapter which begins talking about Ali (ra) and the Khawarij.

[sidi_brazil]

Whats wrong with these people? Wasting time talking about shia when the Wahabis have full control on Mecca and Medina.