Living in the West : Dress code issue in the job

[ahamed_sharif]

Assalamu alaykum

It is idiotic to expact someone to be employed if one has a habbit of leaving for 4 months khuruz on yearly basis. I like to see the elders of TJ look after the families when they are on the street.

It is idiotic to expact someone to be employed if one has a habbit of leaving for 4 months khuruz on yearly basis

TJ members go for khrooj for 40 days in an year.

As an employer it looks idiotic. But let me quote the other side of the story. While working for projects, schedules are to be met, the employee finishes the job a month before schedule (putting extra effort), he applies for leave for one month. I like that employee. Think of employees who are corrupt, lazy, dishonest etc. Now we have a employee who is honest, hard working etc. He applies for a month's leave, surely I shall grant him leave.

I like to see the elders of TJ look after the families when they are on the street

When a saathee works under the guidance of TJ elders, Inshaa Allah he will never be on street. It is the zealot who don't want to get controlled by elders face problems.

Not everyone can leave their job and business.

TJ says don't come out breaking the door, rather, open the door.

Trust me a lot of them would not give you second glance when you are trying to find spouse for your daughter and son because you don't fit into secular ideals of weath.

May be you should also see people who don't have wealth but could manage a satisfied marriage.

So much for the statement 'Allahse hota hai'

Yes "Allah se hota hai", Never experienced "Allah se naheen hota hai".

Regarding taking a job with a dress code, the serious elders are their to guide them.

Let me quote a incident. One brother had "female beauty saloon". After four months he wanted to close that. He did mashwarah with elders (they didn't say Allah se hota hai). They advised him to continue with the saloon, also in the shop they asked him to sell items used by ladies. Slowly he drifted towards the shop and closed the "beauty saloon".

We have many such stories of people who work in haram jobs, like bank jobs.

That is called open door, don't break it.

[Abu Marwan]

Bismillah
Perhaps there are people who fullfill the requirments but I know of cases where they abuse the effort of TJ for not taking family responsibilities.

This is a frequent criticism of this group, but they are undergoing spiritual training of a sort, so it's not really fair to pick on individual shortcomings, nor to conflate these to the group as a whole. Personally, I did not find them that interesting. I used to live upstairs in a masjid where they regularly visited and once they found out that I was not interested in participating in their activities, they ignored me completely. They would sometimes refuse to share their food, Tabligh members only, and once complained to me for reading Quran in the masjid saying I was disturbing their sleeping by making so much "noise."

So, there. I did it too.

I think that their personal behavior does affect people's perceptions of the organization. That is, I suppose, at least partially justified since we do tend to judge communities by the behavior of their individual members. This should remind us that it is also important for us, as Muslims, to behave in ways that reflect well on our community.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

[curious-traveller]

I know of the good effort and wallahi I wish and pray every single believer nomatter of their orienation joins the effort for pleasure of Allah alone.
I am of the opinon that the elders have to involve more people in tassawuf in these day and age. Too often people say things goes beyond the 6 points.
Ahmed please remove my quote from your positngs 23.

I have met one TJ guy who works in Kuwait Oil company ( KOC). This company allows Kuwaiti nationals to wear their long dress in the work. But, KOC does not allow non-Kuwaiti employees to wear long dress.
So , this TJ guy is forced to wear Western suit and pant in the job. What a pity !!

[Abu Marwan]

Assalamu alaykum
Brother just sit in a masjid. Count the people who are dishonest, who's wife has ditched, who is backbiting, who is vandalizing etc. And count the number of brothers who are in right path.

If you have statistics, they weigh it.

Assalamu alaikum,

It is disturbing to see this kind of message inviting people to find fault with one another. This is typical of self-righteous bigots, people who are so busy cataloging the sins of their neighbors that they forget completely about themselves. This, in itself, is a kind of ghibah.

When I see this, I have to remind myself that it is not confined to Muslims alone, and that makes me feel a little bit better. The publicly pious are perhaps the most distasteful of Muslims, and more likely to drive people away from our religion than almost anything else.

200 years ago Robert Burns wrote a poem about them. It begins:

O ye wha are sae guid yoursel',
Sae pious and sae holy,
Ye've nought to do but mark and tell
Your neibours' fauts and folly!
Whase life is like a weel-gaun mill,
Supplied wi' store o' water;
The heaped happer's ebbing still,
An' still the clap plays clatter.


This page has the full text with hyper-linked definitions of some of the words, for those who are unfamiliar with Scotts English.

http://www.robertburns.org/works/93.shtml

In Islam it is called /Hisba/ the taking account of onself before we are taken account of. This does not require us to compare ourselves to others, we will not be asked about this.

Invite others with goodness and mercy and good works for the sake of Allah and do not judge others.


Salaam,

Abu Marwan

[Abu Marwan]

Abu Marwan
From my expeirience I would have left after spending first 10 days with them if it wasn't for the sincere and humble Amir of the Jammah. I found him soft hearted, good spirited and genuine. He took time to reach out to people who would walk a mile and put up with my salafist tendency where I criticised and questioned everything. He never said anything against anyone. I try to emulate him because to me he is living example of a true TJ activist.
I couldn't say the same for the others. I stayed for the entire 40 days and benefitted spiritually like never before but would have preffered a follow on by directing me to a scholar of tassawuf who would have controled by new found relegiosity.
Allahualam

Assalamu alakikum,

You can find good people just about anywhere. It's good you found one in the Tabligh, but not particularly surprising.

Constant criticism and questioning is not so much a salafi tendency as it is a teenage tendency. I wouldn't try to define salafism but I have not seen that salafis are any more adept at critical thought than are other Muslims. Most of their "critiques" are given to them shrink-wrapped. With these they sally forth to dispute things they have been coached in, just like most other people who love to argue fruitlessly.

Their arguments all come to nothing because they have been coached to say things that they do not understand, and because they are not attempting to uncover truth, but only to force an ill-understood opinion on someone else. This is most obvious with the Hizb al-Tahrir activists, if you have ever had any contact with them. I think this is because they are the best trained and have the most consistent "arguments" - everything having been previously approved by the Central Committee of the People's Commissariat. They used to always travel in pairs - presumably so one could watch the other.

A shaykh of tassawuf can provide the discipline many people need to begin to make sense of many complex issues. As with any teacher, it is best to choose wisely. Again, there are good people everywhere.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

[Abu Marwan]

Ahmed
Please delete my quote from post 22.
Br. Abu Marwan
The reason for me saying such things is because I am calling for developing a culture of accountability by themsleves and by the elders. In tassawuf a person giving baya would put themselves forward for correction. This is not so in TJ as the effort for most is long term training. Some even end up doing the effort out of habbit rather then genuine concern. The reason for such stance is because of lack of connection with scholars of tassawuf. I suppose this is common for everyone.
I used to think the tassawuf was optional but now more i think about it, it is becomming a must for everyone. The culture of gratification, ego causes a culture of unaccoutability individually and collectively and the soecity at large suffer in every possible way.
HT is finished!! Some of them are found to be mole and now do the bidding of islamophobe. i generally don't trust people who talk of politics too much. Relegion is relegated to nothing more then an ism, similar to zionism. I tend to vomit it out!!

Allahualam

You make an interesting suggestion that everyone should follow tassawuf. There is much to be said for the discipline. The problem I have with it has to do with the mystic claims for authority. An authority structure is fine, but the mystical claims of many orders have no basis.

I agree with you about politics and Islam. It tends to create an "Islamism" (that's an actual word in French) and reduce Islam to a political ideology. Once Islam becomes an ideology it can be identified as evil, like Communism and Fascism. This is the usual MO of the Islamophobic right. They generally insist that Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Structurally, political and religious power has been separate in Sunni Islam since the days of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The only exception is under the Mutazila heresy, when the state attempted to impose an official doctrine. Imam Ahmad resisted them, ignored them, refused to participate. Imam Malik, also ignored power. He wrote the Muwatta on a political commission but warned that it should not be used to impose doctrine through the state.

The Shias ignored the state completely and did not discover politics until Imam Khomeini invented the new doctrine of the Wilayat-e-Fiqhi for them. This is what enabled the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and nothing else. It was a huge innovation for them, but they hardly noticed. They are accustomed to such things.

I'm interested in politics. It's important for Muslims. But it's also important to remember that Islam is above this. States and civilizations rise and fall. Political ideologies succeed for a while, then fail. People who declare Islam as their political party today, will find something new tomorrow. It's best to give them a wide berth and hope they find guidance before events sweep them away.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

[curious-traveller]

You make an interesting suggestion that everyone should follow tassawuf. There is much to be said for the discipline. The problem I have with it has to do with the mystic claims for authority. An authority structure is fine, but the mystical claims of many orders have no basis.

I agree with you about politics and Islam. It tends to create an "Islamism" (that's an actual word in French) and reduce Islam to a political ideology. Once Islam becomes an ideology it can be identified as evil, like Communism and Fascism. This is the usual MO of the Islamophobic right. They generally insist that Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Structurally, political and religious power has been separate in Sunni Islam since the days of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The only exception is under the Mutazila heresy, when the state attempted to impose an official doctrine. Imam Ahmad resisted them, ignored them, refused to participate. Imam Malik, also ignored power. He wrote the Muwatta on a political commission but warned that it should not be used to impose doctrine through the state.

The Shias ignored the state completely and did not discover politics until Imam Khomeini invented the new doctrine of the Wilayat-e-Fiqhi for them. This is what enabled the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and nothing else. It was a huge innovation for them, but they hardly noticed. They are accustomed to such things.

I'm interested in politics. It's important for Muslims. But it's also important to remember that Islam is above this. States and civilizations rise and fall. Political ideologies succeed for a while, then fail. People who declare Islam as their political party today, will find something new tomorrow. It's best to give them a wide berth and hope they find guidance before events sweep them away.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

Your comment has raised some important issues. May be , you should start a new thread. In the current thread, I would request your feedback about the obstacles faced by the practising brothers living in the West and Australia.

[Abu Marwan]

Your comment has raised some important issues. May be , you should start a new thread. In the current thread, I would request your feedback about the obstacles faced by the practising brothers living in the West and Australia.

Assalamu alaikum Curious Traveller,

Muslims all over the world are facing difficult challenges. For those in the West these challenges are compounded by social dislocation and political isolation.

Classical scholars divided the world into two realms: dar al-Islam and dar al-harb. This emerged directly from the perception, or the belief, that Islam creates a social environment that supports religious practice and that this, in turn, is directly tied to a nurturing of faith. A simple dichotomy was easy to understand and worked for a while, although from the very beginning Muslims' experiences in Abyssinia during the first Hijra confirmed that a third "abode" also existed: dar al-sulh. All three describe a cultural and political space in which our lives unfold.

A major challenge for Western Muslims is to create a cultural space for themselves and then, within this space, to begin to discover an identity. This is not as easy as it might seem. Western countries vary widely in their social view of foreigners and immigrants while Muslims themselves may come from isolated places that have seen little movement of people in or out, and so are not equipped to deal with diversity, not even within their own communities.

I see two points of tension here:

• there is a tension between the Muslim minority in a place and the majority community. This tension centers on Muslims attempts to carve out a cultural space for themselves within their new societies;
• there is a tension within the Muslim community, now composed of many diverse elements which have not been in direct contact with one another before, or, alternatively, which have brought old rivalries with them from somewhere else.

There was a thread here last week that illustrated the tension that can arise in the first category, negotiation of the interface between immigrant and national cultures. A woman who said she was of Lebanese origin described a problem she was having with her father, who had suddenly begun imposing restrictions on her which made he feel that he no longer trusted her. She also described a spiritual crisis she was having at the discovery of the "sexist" nature of Arab or Muslim society and the position of women in Islam.

Both issues arise from a natural process of negotiating cultural space. This woman's father continues to act as though he were in Lebanon, and perceives great danger to his daughter and his family since the social protection he traditionally relied upon has disappeared. There may or may not be a danger - that is immaterial. Perception is everything. Her spiritual turbulence is caused by her own lack of cultural literacy: she does not fully understand Lebanese Muslim culture and society and she does not fully understand the culture and society of the place where she is, so she cannot rationally respond to criticism from either side. Her tendency will be to go with the stronger cultural force - that of the place where she lives, but this exacerbates tensions with her family and makes her father even more anxious.

Tensions within diverse elements of the Muslim community in whatever country are probably easier for most people to understand since we can see factions and national communities and observe their interaction. Because we can see this easily, we do find more people discussing this problem and looking for solutions.

Fundamentalists will say that the solution to both problems is in Islam, and they are right. The problem is that they each look at Islam and come up with different types of solutions. Some become hyper-observant, criticize parents and elders, and cut themselves off from the mainstream community and seek refuge in the traditions and practices of their homelands. They build walls around themselves to create ghettos. They split into factions. They start to see themselves as uniquely guided. They reassure themselves but not the community, which they largely reject. It is possible to do this and we have seen Jews and Christians do the same thing - the Hassidic communities in Europe and America, and Mennonites, Amish, and Mormons in America have all done this.

Others attempt to re-invent themselves as American, Australian, and British Muslims. This causes great anxiety among many since they see assimilation as a direct challenge to their "Muslim" identity. Because they often have difficulty separating Islam from their national cultures, they cannot understand how an American, Australian, or British Islam could even exist at all.

The first step in resolving any problem is to understand it. This is my understanding of the problem. Others will differ. The details are not important. The important thing to realize is that there is a solution an that each of us can find it as individuals, and that each community can also find it together, if we look, talk, and struggle to understand the world and our place in it as Muslims. This is what Muslims have always done. The answer is in the past, and it is in the future.

Salaam,

Abu Marwan

[Nomadic]

Bismillah
A while ago I posted something like this and was informed that I'm being pessimistic. I see there is clear split within muslim and soon to be ex muslilm community. The arabs in general are useless in facing the challanges. Their culture of complacency and inferiroty complex here in the west makes me think how on earth Islam spread at their hand. They have no concept of social dynamics and often the relegious elite reinforce the same attitude via a reactionary approach. I for one think Secularism at large won the battle at least for now. Relegious elite (non scholarly or psudo scholarly) have fallen and will fall untill they have nothing to show for. If one looks at the social make up, it is only some over zealot youngstars who is suffering from idenity crisis is holding on to some emblem of relegion (hence ism). There is real and present danger of losing a large portion of muslimah (practicing and non practicing) to kuffars. Hence it is not uncommon to find a hijabi with ghair mehram and with non muslim.
The idea of polygomy is frownd upon both by relegious and non relegious (a clear victory for the secularist). So with all the Quran and Sunnah slogan, all I see down fall of a community as the community will soon cease to exist as a community. It says a lot about the community that can look after the weaker sex and its next generation. Deo and non deo will fall and no scholar is going to change this! inteletual bankruptcy at the face of superiror secular discourse and hedzog like syndrom of relegious elite will simply speed up the process of impending doom. 50%+ muslim marriages end up devorce in US and so is in UK. These are not non practicing but practicing. So much for Quran and Sunnah!! Perhaps this community need to be annhialated for betterment of true seekers.
In a pathetic attampt, they build masjeds after masjed but real issue is not addressed just like some sort of drug fix!!
I fear for the muslim and more so for the sisters. This immigrant community so far failed! The last bastion will be Gujistan and it will also die with its surat and bharuch syndrome.
Allahualam

[London786]

Nomadic we await a mujadid like you to reform us. Take the batton bro. So tell me can we all start taking bait from you so you will save us all from destruction?