For Those Promoting Unity: Sunni Scholars Labeled as Nasibis

[maneatinglizard]

There's no Ijma' on them being Kuffar; there's a reason why i deleted the post, the fact is there's difference, I personally consider them kuffar, my only point is have respect for the Ulema who you might disagree with.

Who disagreed with their kufr?

[Zubair]

Who disagreed with their kufr?

Wa 'alaykumus Salam

Mawlana Rashid Gongohi said there's difference, some consider them fussaq while others kuffar.

I personally don't care who holds what position, i really didn't want to mention this, just don't attack scholars who are respected, i'm referring to shaykh Faraz.

BTW, did you guyz read Mufti Taqi's detailed exposition regarding upon whom kufr is labelled? I'm reading it right now: http://ammanmessage.com/index.php?op...1&limitstart=3

[Saad]

There's no Ijma' on them being Kuffar; there's a reason why i deleted the post, the fact is there's difference, I personally consider them kuffar, my only point is have respect for the Ulema who you might disagree with.

Assalam o alaykum,

According to Mujaddid Alf-i-Sani (may Allah have mercy on him) we would have to make tawil of those few scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah who might have not declared Shi'as as kafir. He is not willing to accept any difference in this matter. He writes in Radd-i-Rifd,

"So, the condemnation of the Shi’as with kufr is established according to authentic traditions and it is in line with the way of the Salaf.

As for the statements of some scholar of Ahl al-Sunnah which are quoted about not declaring the Shi’as as kafir, if we suppose them to be accurate and [that] they seemingly do not regard the Shi’as as kafir, then they [their statements] will be given any suitable explanation (tawil) and interpretation so that they are not in contradiction with the hadiths mentioned before and the madhhab of major Muslim scholars.”

One such tawil will be to say that they didn't study Shi'aism and are not experts in this field. Those who were imams in this field, like Imam Shah 'Abd al-Aziz Dahlawi and Imam Kashmiri (may Allah have mercy on them), have given this exact reason. Imam Kashmiri said,

وأكفرهم الشاه عبد العزيز رحمه الله تعالى، وقال: إن من لم يكفرهم لم يدر عقائدهم. ثم فصل في المسألة وبه أفتى، والله أعلم

"Shah ‘Abd al-Aziz declared Twelvers as kafir and said, 'Those who don't declare them kafir are not aware of their beliefs’, and my fatwa is [also] that they are kafir.”

Also it seems like Shaykh Farraz Rabbani is not even willing to accept any 'difference' in this matter and insists that Shi'as have always been considered Muslim.

For more see http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...wafid-Twelvers

[Zubair]

I don't know why Shaykh Faraz won't even admit it, btw i was the one who put of Shaykhul Islam Kamal Basha's I don't need any persuasion, the ahnaf have a strong argument about the khilafah, though i heard 'Allama Ibn Abidin took the different position.

I think Mufti Taqi's analysis is very objective.

[Saad]

'Allama Ibn Abidin took the different position.

Assalam o alaykum,

Imam Kashmiri considered it an error on part of 'Allamah ibn 'Abidin in Ikfar al-Mulhidin.

[Zubair]

Assalam o alaykum,

Imam Kashmiri considered it an error on part of 'Allamah ibn 'Abidin in Ikfar al-Mulhidin.

Wa 'alaykumus Salam

Man I wanna read that work so badly, is it online?

[Saad]

Wa 'alaykumus Salam

Man I wanna read that work so badly, is it online?

Assalam o alaykum,

Yea, Arabic can be downloaded here.

Urdu translation is being scanned.

[Zubair]

Assalam o alaykum,

Yea, Arabic can be downloaded here.

Urdu translation is being scanned.

Wa 'alaykumus Salam
JazakAllahu ta'ala al-Khayr
What 'Allama Lucknawi's position on Rawafid? Do you have Majmu' al-Fatawa? Madania sells it, does it also contain the arabic text?

[Saad]

Wa 'alaykumus Salam
JazakAllahu ta'ala al-Khayr
Do you have Majmu' al-Fatawa? Madania sells it, does it also contain the arabic text?

Assalam o alaykum,

I have an Urdu translation of it with Arabic quotes. I am not sure if it's sold by Madania. Mine was a gift.

[Sufi_Taliban]

So when you said "rawafid all kuffar" what did you mean exactly? When I read that line it seems like implying that because you think they're kuffar it's permissible for them to be blown up. When did it be okay for non-Muslims to just be randomly blown up?

Akhi

Rawafid are not just Kuffar firstly....they are Zindiqs meaning there is no amensty of life for them in an Islamic state, infact Zindiqs have no right to property, there can be no transaction with them. All of this can be seen in Ikfar ul Mulhideen and the transaction part in Ahsan ul Fatawa. Kuffar in an Islamic state given they pay Jizya have the right to property, life and honor, Zindiqs can not have a contract with an Islamic goverment. Their Hukum is Qatal. Besides what shaikh rabbani was pointing towards is the fact that their killing was an atrocity which i think is not the case, they curse Sahaba(ra) and Ummahatul Momineen(ra).

Wa salam