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Thread: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

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    Default Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    bismillah al Rahman'ul Raheem


    This small research is about Imam Zaid Bin Ali ZainulAbedeen Bin Al Hussein Bin Ali Bin AbiTalib PBUH a member of ahlulbayt (Household of Prophet Muhammad PBUH) from The Progeny of our Prophet from his daughter Fatima PBUT.
    The followers of Imam Zaid pbuh are called the Zaidi Shiites or Zaidiyah and they are known by many scholars in the Arab world as being “the Shia of the Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Shia”because they are moderate & their Fiqh is based on the Quran,the Sunnah and The Ijtihad. As for the Houthis of Yemen or the Houthiyah mvmnt they are a terrorist organization or militia led by a certain family and they have a long history of working with the Zionists against President Gamal Abdul Nasser of Egypt and today they are just an extension of the Twelver Rafidah mvmnt of Iran, The Connection between The Zaidi and Rafidhi Shiites was broken during the Revolution of Imam Zaid PBUH.

    The following Narration is accepted by the mainstream muslims and the Zaidi Shiites and it illustrates the split between the two teams of Shiites:

    الامام الشهيد زيد بن علي عندما بدأ يستعد لقتال بني اميه تجمع اليه اصحابه فأمرهم الامام بسيرة النبي صلى الله عليه واله وسلم وسيرة الامام علي عليه السلام فقال له
    بعض من اصحابه : قد سمعنا مقالتك فما قولك في الشيخين ؟
    الامام زيد: ما عساي ان اقول فيهما امنا بالله وجاهدا في الله حق جهاده وصحبا رسول الله احسن الصحبه .
    بعض اصحاب الامام : أليس هذان الشيخان هما من سلبا حق ابيك (يقصدوا الامام علي ) فأخذ الناس هذا الامر سنه منهم وإلا فلماذا تقاتل بني اميه اذا أليس لانهم سلبوكم حقكم ؟!.
    الامام زيد : لا والله ليس بنو اميه كابي بكر وابن الخطاب لقد أقاما الدين وانهوا البدع ونشروا العدل والصلاح بين الامه وبنو اميه ضالمون لكم ولي وللناس هم من قتلوا الحسين واهل بيته هم من يقومون بالفساد والبدع .
    بعض اصحابه : لا بد لك أن تبرا من الشيخين ؟
    الامام زيد : لا والله لا ابرأ منهما ما سمعت احدا من اهل بيتي يبرأ منهم
    بعض اصحابه : إما أن تبرا من الشيخين والا رفضناك ؟
    الامام زيد : اذهبوا فأنتم الرافضه .
    ولم يقاتلوا مع الامام زيد فليف نون من اتباع الامام زيد ثم نكون رافضه

    Translation:
    When Imam Zaid PBUH was getting ready to revolt against the Umayyad Ruler Hashim he was approached by a group of those who called themselves the Shiites of ahlulbayt.

    “Shiites: We heard your Call, what say you of the two Sheikhs (Shaykhan / Abu Bakr & Umar)?

    Imam Zaid: What Can I Say about Them, They Believed in Allah and fought In his cause a Truthful Jihad, They were The Prophet’s Best Companions.

    Shiites: Aren’t they the ones who took the right of your fathers? If not then why do you fight the Umayyads?

    Imam: By God the Umayyads are unlike Abu bakr and Ibn al Khattab, They have strengthened the religion and erased the innovations and spread justice and goodness in the Ummah Whereas the Umayyads have oppressed Me, You and the Ummah They (Yazid) are the killers of Hussein and his family and have spread innovations and misguidance amongst the people.

    Shiites: You must disassociate yourself from the two sheikhs.

    Imam: By Allah I will Not! Nor have I heard that any from my family have done so.

    Shiites: Either you disassociate yourself from them or we Refuse(Rafidah) you.

    Imam: Go for you are the Rafidhah!!! (Refusors).”

    Some researchers have even theorized that the Shiites who deserted Imam Zaid PBUH didn’t really do it because of Abu bakr or Umar RAA but they did so after seeing the large army of Hisham bin Abdul Malik so they just wanted a way out thus asking The Imam about The Two sheikhs when they already knew his opinion beforehand.
    So the Imam Zaid PBUH fought the war after a big part of his Shiites abandoned him and he got killed while those Shiites went to torment his brother Muhammad al Baqir PBUH and his son.

    While The Zaidis criticize the Umayyads and any ruler who oppresses yet they don’t believe in the God given right of Imamah or infallibility of the Imams or any of the Twelverrafidhi stories, they love the first four caliphs just like any other Muslim and their top scholars like Dr. Murtada Bin Zaid al Muhatwari“مرتضى ابن زيد المحطوري” teach SahihBukhari and SahihMuslim in theirMadrasas(Schools).

    His Website: http://www.almahatwary.org/p3.htm

    The following information is from the book of Dr. Ali al Salabi “الدكتور علي الصلابي” called“Al Dawlah al UmawiyahAwamil al IzdiharwaTada’iyat el Inhiyar “الدولة الأموية عوامل الإزدهار وتداعيات الإنهيار” on the fourth part about Revolutions during the time of Hisham Bin Abdul Malik “هشام بن عبدالملك” he says That: Zaid Bin Ali PBUH is connected to the Prophet PBUH from his cousin Ali PBUH and his Daughter Fatima PBUH and was nicknamed “Aba’l Hussein”, he was of the Men of the third level From the followers (tabe’een) in Madinah, his mother was a slave from Sindh called Umm Walad, some narrations mention that Al Mukhtar Bin AbiUbayd al thakafi “المختار بن أبي عبيد الثقفي” Favored her and bought her then he found that she fits Imam Ali ZainulAbedeen perfectly so he offered her as a gift and Imam Zaid complimented her by Saying “She was patient after the death of her Sayyed and none was more patient” “لقد صبرت بعد وفاة سيدها إذ لم يصبر غيرها”, Fatima Bint Al Hussein said about her “By Allah she was a good Relative” “أما والله لنعم دخيلة القوم”, IbnQutayba “ابن قتيبة” narrates that her name was “haydan” “حيدان” or “ام حيدان” . The Father of the Imam was Ali ZainulAbedeen who was a man of the second level of followers in Madinah and was a scholar from ahlulbayt and one of the best of BaniHashim, the most famous narrations state that the Imam PBUH was born in 80 hijri and died in 122 hijri so he lived 44 years and in other narrations 42 years, he married ArbatahbintAbiHashim Bin Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Al Hanafiyah “أربطة بنت أبي هاشم بن عبدالله بن محمد بن الحنفية” and from her he got his son Yahya then later in Kufah he married others, the first was called IbnatYa’aqoob Bin Abdullah al Sulami from BaniFarqad “أبنة يعقوب بن عبدالله السلمي من بني فرقد” then Ibnat Abdullah bin Abi Al Anbas Al Asadi “أبنة عبدالله بن أبي العنبس الأسدي” and finally Umm Walad who gave him his sons Isa, Hussein and Muhammad.

    The first difference between Imam Zaid PBUH and his father Ali PBUH is that the first was more of a revolutionary while the second was very peaceful and never rebelled against the Umayyad rulers of his time, maybe this was because Ali witnessed the horrors of Karbala that happened to his family at the Hands of Yazeed and Ziyadwhich is why he decided to spend his time learning and studying whereas Zaid heard only tales and was the complete opposite of his father and brother Muhammad al Baqir PBUH. According to the Zaidi scholars Muhammad Al Baqir PBUH advised his brother to not rebel against Hisham but Zaid never listened as he was a Man with great vision and dreams, he never stayed in Madinah(Like his father and big brother)which was known as the fort of ahlulbayt at that time but he left to gather knowledge from many cities and lands like Iraq after the people of Kufah wrote him letters just like they wrote for his fathers before him.

    Dr.Ali al Salabi describes Madinah al Munawarah at the Time of Zaid That it was a Minaret of Knowledge because of the big number of companions and followers that resided in it, it was one of the pivot points of the Islamic state. The Imam grew up in a home of ahlulbayt full of knowledge as his father was one of the biggest of the Tabe’een(Followers) of his time and Zaid spent eighteen years with his father before he passed away then his big brother Muhammad PBUH took care of him and brought him up as a pious Believer who loved reciting the Quran and pleasing his lord.

    Imam Zaid Said about himself:
    والله ما كذبت كذبة منذ عرفت يميني من شمالي ولا أنتهكت محرما لله عز وجل منذ أن عرفت أن الله يؤاخذني

    Translated: By Allah I never told a Lie since I realized my right from my left nor have I violated a Mahram for Allah since I knew that he forbids it.
    It was in this religious environment full of taqwa that The Imam Grew up and he memorized the Quran as this was the habit of the companions and the followers to make their children memorize the Quran at a young age; the Quran was the main occupation of Zaid as he said:
    لقد خلوت بالقرآن الكريم ثلاثة عشرة سنة أقرأه وأتدبره..

    Translated: I devoted thirteen years of my life studying and learning the Quran..
    At the Time of the Imam there was a problem in the Islamic community and it was related to the politics and the leadership. The Shura(mutual consultation) which prevailed during the time of companions transformed to the domination of those with more power and leadership became hereditary as a result of the huge expansion of the Islamic state. Scholars like Imam Zaid PBUH worked their hardest to try and fix the situation of the Ummahby their Ijtihad… The Imam adopted a specific school of Scientific Ijtihad in order to fix the mind of his Ummah and thus the relation between him and the Mu’utazilimvmnt came to light after he and Wasil Bin Ata’a “واصل بن عطاء”started writing to eachother and thus some political alliances were formed and we see clearly that the Imam was taking both the Educational and political approaches to remedy this issue.

    Caliph Hisham Bin Abdul Malik was in power when Imam Zaid did the Revolution and the famous scholar Al Thahabee described him by Saying: “He was Calm, decisive, Smart and a Good Politician, He Often Oppressed but also did justice at other times”. But I guess The Biggest mistake he did was keeping all the money for himself and never spent on the peoplewhich is a problem we tend to face with leaders in our days and from experience this is more than enough reason to rebel against anyone also many famous figures supported this revolution such as Imam Abu Hanifah RAA.

    For those who do not know, Imam Abu Hanifah also supported the Revolution of Abdullah bin al Hassan and his two sons Muhammad and Ibrahim against Al Mansoor.

    Imam Ja’afar al Sadiq PBUH also had a really strong relation with his uncle Imam Zaid PBUH and this is illustrated by several Hadiths such as the one written in the book of Doctor Al Salabi:

    يقول في كتاب الدكتور الصلابي كان جعفر يثنى على عمه زيد ويقدره وكانت العلاقة بينهما طيبه فلقد قال جعفر عن عمه كما يروى لنا عمر ابن القاسم قال دخلت على جعفر الصادق وعنده ناس من الرافضه وفقلت انهم يبرون من عمك قال الامام جعفر الصادق برى الله ممن تبرى منه كان والله اقرائنا لكتاب الله وافقهنا في دين الله واصلنا للرحم ما تركنا وفينا مثله


    Translated: Ja’afar appreciated and used to compliment his uncle Zaid as narrated by Umar Bin al Qassem: “I entered on Ja’afar al Sadik and he had some people of the Rafidah so I told him that those people disassociate themselves from your uncle Then Imam Ja’afar said: May Allah Disassociate himself from those who disassociate themselves from my uncle, By Allah he was the one who read the Quran more than any of us and had more fiqh than any of us and kept the family united, none of us were like him.

    It is also written that Imam Ja’afar used to hold the ropes of his uncle’s camel/horse and he used to fix his clothes as he rode on the saddle, It is also recorded that Ja’afar unlike his father was supportive of his uncle’s rebellion against the Caliph and had asked his uncle for permission to accompany him out to Kufah from Madinah in this Hadith:

    فعندما اراد زيد الخروج الى الكوفه من المدينة قال له جعفر انا معك ياعم فقال زيد او ما علمت ان قائمنا لقاعدنا وقاعدنا لقائمنا فاذا خرجت انا وانت فمن يخلفنا في حرمنا فتخلف جعفر بامر عمه زيد


    Above Ja’afar asks his uncle for permission to leave but his uncle tells him to be his Caliph in his Haram(in Madinah) while he is absent.

    وذكر الطبولي وابن الاثير ان جماعة من الشيعه قبل خروج زيد مروا على جعفر الصادق فقالوا لهان زيد بن علي فينا يبايع افترى لنا ان نبايعه فقال لهم نعم بايعوه فهو والله افضلنا وسيدنا وخيرنا فجاؤا فكتموا ما امرهم به


    Translated: Al Tubuli and IbnAtheer narrated that a group of Shiites passed by Ja’afar al Sadiq before Zaid took off and they told him that Zaid bin Ali was looking for baya’ah(their allegiance to him) so should they give him the Baya’ah Then Al Sadiq told them: Yes give him the Baya’ah for he is our Sayyed and the best from amongst us. Then when they came they concealed this order from him.

    وكان جعفر الصادق يدعو لعمه بالنصروالتاييد فعندما ارد يحيى اللحوق بابيه زيد قال له جعفر اقراه عني السلام وقل له اني اسأل الله ان ينصرك ويبقيك ولا يرينا فيك مكروها


    Translated: Ja’afar al Sadik used to make Dua for his uncle so that Allah may grant him victory so when Yahya wanted to follow his father Zaid, Ja’afar told him: “deliver my Salam to him and tell him that I ask Allah that he grant him Victory and keep you safe from harm”.

    And when News of Zaid’s martyrdom reached the ears of Ja’afar al Sadiq he said:
    قال ذهب والله زيد بن علي كما ذهب علي والحسن والحسين واصحابهم شهيدا الى الجنة


    Translated: By Allah Zaid Bin Ali has gone just like Ali and Hassan and Hussein and their companions went, all of them martyrs to heaven.
    Another one of the big Zaidi scholars is Ahmed Muhammad al Shami “احمد محمد الشامي” which says in the fourth volume of his book:
    اما من ادعى ان الامام زيد بن علي كان يرى لنفسه ولأسرته ولنسبه تميزا خاص في موضوع الامامه واحقيته واسرته بهذا فهذا كلام مرفوض لا ادري كيف وصل الى من يقوم هذا الامر ويدعيه بأسم الزيديه


    Translated: “For those claiming that The Imam Zaid Bin Ali PBUH saw himself or his family as something special when it comes to Imamah or his family’s divine right to rule Then this is absolutely refused and I have no clue how some people can say this in the name of our ZaidiMadhab or where they got these ideas from.”

    So just like the big Zaidi scholar Murtada Bin Zaidal Muhatwari says, there are no texts or narrations from Imam Zaid bin Ali PBUH where he claims that he is an infallible Imam or that any of his family members are infallible Imams with a divine right to rule over others or that they have any advantages over other Muslims because of some “pure bloodline”.

    The Famous 6th century Scholar Nashwan bin Sa’eed al Hamiree “نشوان ابن سعيد الحميري” in his popular book “Al Hoor al Ein” “الحور العين” and the Other Big Zaidi Scholar Ahmad Bin Yahya al Murtada “احمد ابن يحيى المرتضى” who lived in the 8th century and wrote “Al ManiyahwalAmalfilMilalwalNihal” “المنية والامل في الملل والنحل” has this text under “The Description of the first Shias”:

    يقول هم اؤلئك الذين ناصروا الامام علي في خصوماته ولكنهم لم يختلفوا عن بقية الامه في شيئ من عقائدها وكانوا يقولوا بأمامة وخلافة ابى بكر وعمر وعثمان


    Translated: “(The first Shias) Are those who supported the Imam Ali in his conflicts but they never differed from the rest of the Ummah(Nation) in their Aqeedah(Doctrine/Creed) and they believed in the Imamah and Caliphate of Abu bakr& Umar &Uthman.”

    So Both of these two huge 6th and 8th century Zaidi Scholars repeat the same text which clearly explains what and who are the true Shias that lived in the Days of companions. Nashwan bin Sa’eed further discusses the “Imamah” and states that it is a matter of Shura(mutual consultation) amongst the Muslims.

    Now Dr.Ali al Salabi writes quite a bit about The Father of Imam Zaid (Ali ZainulAbedeen) in his book and I will translate an interesting narration in his book which shows his relation with the companions of The Prophet PBUH:

    الدكتور علي الصلابي : كان علي زين العابدين شديد التمسك بالكتاب والسنة وماكان عليه جده علي بن أبي طالب وأبوه الحسين الشهيد رضي الله عنهم لا يحيد عنه قيد أن ملة في عقيدة أو عبادة وعمل كان كثير التبتل والورع وكان حسن الرأي للشيخين أبي بكر وعمر وبالخليفة الراشد عثمان رضي الله عنهم جميعا، كان شديد الحب لهم والتقدير لأعمالهم شديد الحب للصحابة أجمعين، فلما أظهر بعض المتسلسلين بآل البيت الطعن بأبي بكر وعمر تصدى لهم الأمام علي زين العابدين ففضح مكرهم وأظهر البراءة منهم فعن أبي حازم المدني قال : مارأيت هاشميا أفقه من علي بن الحسين سمعته وقد سُئل كيف كانت منزلة أبي بكر وعمر عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ؟ فأشار بيده إلى القبر وقال : بمنزلتهما منه الساعة


    Brief Translation: … When a few intruders who claim to be his(ZainulAbedeen) Shiites started attacking Abu Bakr and Umar he stood up against them and distanced himself from them after exposing their lies and schemes, AbiHazim al Madani narrated: “I never saw a Hashimi(Sub-Tribe of Prophet Muhammad PBUH) who has more Fiqh(Knowledge) than Ali Bin al Hussein as I heard him say when he was asked about the rank/status of Abu Bakr and Umar in the Sight of the Prophet PBUH, he pointed with his hand to the graves and said: They still hold the same rank today(All buried next to each other).

    A Narration about Imam Zaid’s brother Muhammad al Baqir PBUT:

    الامام جعفر الصادق ابن محمد الباقر عن أبيه قال جاء رجل إلى أبي جاء رجل إلى الامام محمد الباقر فقال : أخبرني عن أبي بكر ؟ قال : عن الصديق تسأل ؟ أستغرب السائل ورد وقال وتسميه الصديق ؟ قال الامام محمد الباقر : ثكلتك أمك قد سماه صديقا من هو خير مني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم والمهاجرون والأنصار فمن لم يسمه صديقا فلا صدق الله قوله إذهب فأحب أبابكر وعمر وتولهما فما كان من أمر ففي عنقي


    Translation: Imam Ja’afar al Sadik narrated from his father, he said A Man came to my father Muhammad al Baqir PBUH and said: Tell me of Abu Bakr, Al Baqir Said: You Ask about the Sideeq?, The Man responded while a bit confused: You call him Sideeq? Imam Replied: May your mother forsake you! He was called Al Sideek by he who is far better than you and me, by the Prophet of Allah PBUH and the Muhajirun and the Ansars. He who does not call him a Sideeq may Allah Not guide him to the truth, You Must Love Abu Bakr and Umar and be their Walias I’m responsible for what I say.

    وعن محمد بن علي عن أبيه قال: قدم قوم من العراق فجلسوا إليّ فذكروا أبا بكر وعمر فسبوهما ثم ابتركوا في عثمان إبتراكا فشتمتهم


    Translation: Muhammad Bin Ali narrated from his Father: some people from Al Iraq came and sat with me then they mentioned Abu Bakr and Umar and insulted them, then they humiliated UthmanSo I Insulted them.

    وقال علي بن الحسين : والله ماقُتل عثمان رضي الله عنه على وجه الحق


    Translation: Muhammad Narrated from his Father Ali bin Hussein: By Allah UthmanMay Allah be pleased with him was never killed by those who sought after justice.
    Ali ZainulAbedeen PBUH used to also correct the false beliefs of someMuslims such as in this narration:
    علي زين العابدين بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب قال جاءني رجل فقال : جئتك في حاجة وماجئت حاجا ولامعتمرا قلت وماهي ؟ قال: جئتك لأسألك متى يُبعث علي ؟ فقلت : يبعث والله يوم القيامة ثم تهمه نفسه


    Translation: Ali ZainulAbedeen Said that a Man came to him and said: I came to ask something of you, I asked what it was and The Man said: I came to ask you when will Ali be resurrected? Then I replied: By Allah it will be on the judgment day and then he will only be concerned about himself.
    Ali ZainulAbedeen was also against the Ghulu(extreme love) of some people to ahlulbayt:
    وقال : ايها الناس أحبونا حب الإسلام فما بر حبنا حبُكم حتى صار علينا عارا


    ZainulAbedeen said: O people! Love us like you love in Islam and do not go to extremes as it will burden us.
    Ali Bin al Hussein PBUH was also one of the most loved of ahlulbayt of his time and was favored by the two Caliphs Marwan and abdul Malik and used to pray behind them without Taqiyyah.

    فعن أبي جعفر قال : إنا اصلي خلفهم يعني الامويين من غير تقية وأشهد على أبي أنه كان يصلي خلفهم من غير تقية


    AbiJa’afar Narrated: I prayed behind them (Umayyads) without Taqiyyah and I bare witness that my father also did so without Taqiyyah.
    Many more narrations like these can be found in the Main books of the Zaidi Shiites from Imam Zaid, his father and his big brother PBUT which portray the reality of these historical Islamic figures and the problems they had to face during those days.
    بعض المتشيعين لآل البيت أو غلاة التشيع لآل البيت جاءوا إلى الامام زين العابدين بن علي رضي الله عنه فذكروا أبا بكر وعمر بسوء في حضرته فذكر لهم الآية (للفقراء المهاجرين الذين أخرجوا من ديارهم وأموالهم يبتغون فضلا من الله ورضوانا وينصرون الله ورسوله أؤلئك هم الصادقون ) ثم قال لهم :أُشهدكم الله هل أنتم منهم ؟ قالوا : لا
    ثم قال (والذين تبوؤا الدار والايمان من قبلهم يحبون من هاجر إليهم ولايجدون في صدورهم حاجة مما أوتوا ويؤثرون على أنفسهم ولوكان بهم خصاصة ومن يوق شح نفسه فأؤلئك هم المفلحون ) أسألكم الله هل
    أنتم من هؤلاء ؟ قالوا: لا
    ثم قال أما أنتم فقد شهدتم على أنفسكم أنكم لستم من المهاجرين ولامن الانصار لستم من الاولين ولامن الآخرين وأنا أشهد أنكم لستم من الذين وردوا في الآية الأخرى (والذين جاءوا من بعدهم يقولون ربنا أغفر لنا ولإخواننا الذين سبقونا بالإيمان ولاتجعل في قلوبنا غلا للذين امنوا ربنا إنك رؤوف رحيم )


    Translation: Some of the Ghulat of the Shiites came to the Imam Ali ZainulAbedeen and they mentioned Abu Bakr and Umar and insulted them in his presence So he mentioned to them the verse which says: “For the poor emigrants, who were expelled from thier homes and thier property Seeking bounties from ALLAH and to please him and his messenger such are indeed the TRUTHFUL”
    Then he told them: “By Allah are from amongst these?” they said No.
    Then he mentioned the verse: “And (It is Also For) Those who before them, had homes (In Al-Madina) and had adopted the Faith (Meaning al Ansar) Love those who emigrate to them, and have no jealousy in thier breasts for that which they have been given (Booty of Banu Nadir) and give them (emigrants) preference over themselves even though they were in need of that, and whosoever is saved from thier own covetousness, such are they who will be the successful”
    Then he told them: “By Allah are from amongst these?” they said No.
    Then he says “you have confessed that you aren’t from the Muhajirun or the Ansar, not from the first(Muslims) nor the last and I bare witness that you are not from amongst these.” Then he recited the verse: “And those who came after them say: Our Lord! Forgive us our bretheren who have preceded us in faith, and put not in our hearts any hatred against those who have believed.”

    As for the big Zaidi scholar Ahmad bin Yusef said in his book “Al Thamarat al Yania’at” “الثمرات اليانعات” about the explanation of the verse:

    when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for God is with us" [Al Tawbah; 40]
    إذ يقول لصاحبه لاتحزن إن الله معنا

    He says that the verse is directed towards Abu Bakr RAA and that the verse means that He is a “Companion” of the Prophet PBUH and that The Prophet tells him to not be saddened and that Allah is with them and on their side then he continues explaining this section:
    then God sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not[Tawbah; 40]
    فأنزل الله سكينته

    And here he gave two opinions first he said that this was aimed at Abu Bakr PBUH as the serenity of Allah calmed him down because the prophet PBUH was already calm and the other opinion states that it was aimed at the Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

    Now Abu Ja’afar PBUH Was born in 56 Hijri during the Life of Sayyidah Aisha PBUH and Abu Huraira RAA, he was a very pious, educated & hardworking man and one of the twelve which the twelver Shiites revere and worship. Abu Ja’afar or Muhammad al Baqir PBUH lived during the time of famous scholars like IbnKatheer, Al Zanaj, QatadahIbnShahab…IbnFadeel Narrates that he asked Al Baqirand his Son ja’afar about Abu Bakr and Umar so he replied “O Salem be their wali (Close Friend, Ally, Lover…) and disassociate yourself from their enemies for they are Imams of guidance.”

    قال ابن فضيل سألت الباقر وابنه جعفر عن ابي بكر وعمر فقال لي يا سالم تولهما وابرأ من عدوهما فان هما كانا امامي هدى


    Al Thahabee has an interesting comment on this Hadith, he says that Salem who narrated this Hadith had “clear Shiism” inside him as he was a Shiiteand IbnFadeel who narrated it from him is described by the Shiites as a “Trustworthy” Shiite However it seems Allah willed that they slip and include this Narration in their books to prove the innocence of the companions RAA….He also says that the Shiites claim that such narrations are considered as Taqiyyah(Concealing the truth) from the Imams.
    Also:

    وعن بسام الصيرفي قال سألت ابا جعفر عن ابي بكر وعمر فقال والله اني لتولهما واستغفر لهما وما ادركت احد من اهل بيتي الا وهو يتولهما


    Bassam al Sayrafi Said: I Asked Abu Ja’afar about abu Bakr and Umar and he said: By Allah I’m their Wali (Ally, Close friend, lover, guide…) and I never knew anyone from my AhlulBayt (Family) that wasn’t their Wali.
    Also:

    وعن جابر الجعفي عن محمد بن على قال اجمع بنو فاطمة على ان يقولوا في ابي بكر وعمر احسن ما يكون من القول


    From Jaber al Ja’afi from Muhammad Bin Ali that he said: The Consensus of Bani Fatimah (Children of Fatimah al Zahra’a) was to say about Abu Bakr and Umar the best sayings(Compliment them).
    Also:
    وعن عروة بن عبدالله قال سألت ابا جعفر محمد بن على زيد العابدين بن الحسين عن حلية السيوف فقال لا بأس يه قد حلى ابوبكر الصديق سيفة فقلت وتقول الصديق فوثب وثبة وستقبل القبلة ثم قال نعم الصديق نعم الصديق فمن لم يقل الصديق فلا صدق الله له قولا في الدنيا والاخرة


    Narrated from Urwah Bin Abdullah: I asked Abu Ja’afar Muhammad Bin Ali ZainulAbedeen Bin al Hussein about Decorating the Blade So he said: There is no issue in it for Abu Bakr al Sideeq used a decorated Sword, then I asked: You Say Sideeq? Then he suddenly stood up facing the Qiblah and said Yes Al Sideeq, Yes al Sideeq for if anyone does not say Sideeq may Allah not Accept his Actions (Worship/Good deeds) and his words in this life and the next.
    Also:

    وقال جابر الجعفي قال لي محمد بن على زين العابدين يا جابر بلغني ان قوما بالعراق يزعمون انهم يحبوننا اهل البيت ويتناولون ابى بكر وعمر ويزعمون اني امرتهم بذلك فابلغهم عني اني الى الله منهم بريئ والذي نفس محمد بيده لو وليت…لا نالتني شفعة محمد عليه الصلاة والسلام الام اكن اسغفر لهما واترحم عليهما ان اعداء الله لغافلون عن فضلهما وسابقتهما فابلغهم اني برا منهم ممن تبرأ من ابي بكر وعمر


    Jaber Al Ja’afi Said: Muhammad Bin Ali Bin Hussein Told Me: It reached me that some folks in Iraq claim that they love us AhlulBayt and they insult Abu Bakr and Umar and they claim that I had ordered them to do it, So Tell them that I Disassociate myself from them and I swear to Allah That…(he says some harsh words here) and may the Shafa’ah(intercession) of Muhammad PBUH never reach me if I didn’t make Dua for them (Abu Bakr & Umar) and ask Allah to reward them, for the enemies of Allah are oblivious to their(Companion’s) great rank and good deeds…
    Also:

    وعن عبدالملك ابن ابي سليمان قال قالت لمحمد الباقر قال الله تعالي ( انما وليكم الله ورسوله والذين امنوا) قال يعني سأله منهم قال هم اصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه واله وسلم


    AbdulMalik bin Abi Suleiman said: I asked Muhammad al Baqir about the Verse: (For your Wali is Allah and The Messenger and The believers…) I asked who are the believers? He said: The Companions of The Prophet SallaAllahuAlayhiwaAlihiwaSallam.
    So it’s not “Ali Only” like some of the Ignorants in Arabic Grammar Claim.

    Imam al Mahdi (Not THE Mahdi, this is just one of the biggest scholars of Zaidiyah) says In Al Bahr al Zakhar “البحر الزخار” about the Ten Companions:
    Abdul Rahman Bin Awf RAA Narrated from the Prophet PBUH: Abu Bakr is in Heaven and Umar is in Heaven and Uthmanis in Heaven and Ali is in Heaven and Talhais in Heaven and Zubairis in Heaven and AbdulRahman is in Heaven and Sa’ed bin Abiwakkasis in Heaven and Sa’eed bin Zaidis in Heaven and AbiUbayd Bin al Jarrahis in Heaven.

    The Great Zaidi Scholar also mentions in his book that Ali ZainulAbedeen had a Son called Umar bin Ali and he was Zaid’s Younger brother also SakinahBint Hussein married Zaid Bin Umar Bin Uthman bin Affan and her sister Fatimah was married to his brother Abdullah. Hussein Bin Ali Bin AbiTalib was Married to HafsaBintAbdulRahman bin Abu Bakr…

    Now since we’re on the topic of AhlulBayt I just got this interesting piece of Information that I want to share regarding their Graves, we all know that there are two graves for Imam Hussein PBUH and two different locations and other graves for Zainab PBUH… The Thing is I just found out that what is buried in Egypt is the head of Imam Hussein while his body is in Iraq, As for Zainab PBUH the Eldest is buried in Egypt and the Youngest in Syria while the middle Zainab is BuriedIn Saudi in Jannat Al Baqi’i.

    Still There is a great conflict of opinion as many scholars/historians say that the head buried in Egypt is not that of Hussein and that this whole thing is a big lie as they buried another head in that mosque, now as for the Zeinab which was buried in Egypt many scholars say that The Hadith which says that she went to Egypt is weak and that this isn’t the grave of ZeinabBint Ali Bin AbiTalib, the Mufti of Egypt Muhammad Najib al Muti’i in the magazine of “Al Fateh” also said “ Ibn al Atheer and Al Tabari both proved in their history books that Zeinab the sister of Ali PBUT returned to Medinah with those who remained after Karbala”.

    While we’re talking about the AhlulBayt let’s mention what the twelver Shiites Fabricated concerning Imam Zaid PBUH who went to take the Caliphate for himself as if he never heard of the 12 Holy Saintly imams
    Last edited by TripolySunni; 10-02-2010 at 11:02 AM.


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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Twelver Shiite Fabrication section:

    الباقر قد فطن إلى ذلك، فقد روى القوم عنه أنه قال: سيخرج زيد أخي بعد موتي، ويدعو الناس إلى نفسه، ويخلع جعفراً ابني،ولا يلبث إلا ثلاثاً حتى يقتل ويصلب، ثم يحرق بالنار، ويذرى في الريح، ويمثل به مثلة ما مثل بها أحد قبله


    Source: Biharul Anwar 46/252
    Translation: Al Baqir PBUH Said to his Son Ja’afar al Sadiq PBUH: My Brother Zaid will Rebel after my death and he will call the people to give him Baya’ah(Allegiance) and will replace my son Ja’afar but he will last only Three and then he will Die and be crucified and Then Burned and his ashes will scatter with the winds and will be humiliated unlike any other human before him.
    In another narration:

    إن زيداً سيدعو بعدي إلى نفسه، فدعه ولا تنازعه فإن عمره قصير


    Source:Ithbat al hudat 3/66

    Translation: Zaid will call for himself after me So Ignore him and do not concern yourself with him for his life is short.
    Lots of Love as always in the twelver Shiite Narrations…shows how much the person who fabricated this hated ahlulbayt.
    Let’s take some more examples,

    وعن مؤمن الطاق عند القوم، أن زيداً قال له: ما تقول إن طرقك طارق منا أتخرج معه؟ قال: قلت له: إن كان أباك وأخاك خرجت معه، قال: فقال لي: فأنا أريد أن أخرج أجاهد هؤلاء القوم فاخرج معي، قال: قلت: لا أفعل جعلت فداك، قال: فقال لي: أترغب بنفسك عني؟ قال: فقلت له: إنما هي نفس واحدة، فإن كان لله عز وجلفي الأرض معك حجة فالمتخلف عنك ناج، والخارج معك هالك،وإن لم يكن لله معك حجة فالمتخلف عنك والخارج معك سواء، قال: فقال لي: يا أبا جعفر، كنت أجلس مع أبي على الخِوان، فيلقمني اللقمة السمينة، ويبرد لي اللقمة الحارة حتى تبرد من شفقته عليَّ، ولم يشفق عليَّ من حر النار إذ أخبرك بالدين ولم يخبرني به؟ قال: فقلت له: من شفقته عليك من حر النار لم يخبرك، خاف عليك ألا تقبله فتدخل النار... إلى أن قال: فحججت، فحدثت أبا عبدالله بمقالة زيد وما قلت له: فقال لي: أخذته من بين يديه ومن خلفه، وعن يمينه وعن يساره، ومن فوق رأسه ومن تحت قدميه، ولم تترك له مسلكاً يسلكه

    In the Twelver “Sahih” Narration above we read That Zaid asks Mumin al Taq to give him allegiance so that he can fight with him against the Umayyads, Al Taq refuses because Zaid is not the Correct Imam, This comes as a Shock to Zaid which tells him that why didn’t his father Ali tell him that he isn’t an Imam while Only his Father and brother were and how come Al Taq knows about this and he doesn’t, Of course Al Taq replies that his Father didn’t tell him that out of his love for him because if he did tell him that and then Zaid refused him Then Zaid would end up in HellFire…
    You find this “Sahih” Narration In these Shiite books: Al Kafi 1/174, Al Ihtijaj 376, Al bihar 46/181, Mu’ujam al khoei 7/354. And a Similar Narration in Al Kes****arjamah 280, Mu’ujam al khoei 7/39, Al Manaqib 1/259.
    Imam Zaid used to Say:

    قولـه: ليس الإمام منا من أرخى عليه ستره، إنما الإمام من شهر سيفه

    He from amongst us who does not draw his sword (do Jihad) and Sits at home(Like Ja’afar or his Father or His father) is not an Imam.

    Source: Rijal Al Kesshi 261, Bihar 46/ 197, Al Manaqib 1/260, Al Kafi 1/356…
    Now this one:

    ولم يكن يأبه بتحذير الصادق له: يا عم، أعيذك بالله أن تكون المصلوب بالكناسة، وكانت أم زيد ترد: والله ما يحملك على هذا القول غير الحسد لابني، ويرد: يا ليته حسداً، يا ليته حسداً، ثلاثاً.

    Ja’afar al Sadiq used to tell Zaid: O uncle I pray to Allah that you do not get crucified in Kanasah, Then Zaid’s mother Said: You only say this out of jealousy from my Son, Then Ja’afar said: I wish it was (three times)
    Source: Amali al Saduq 43, IyounAkhbar al Ridah 1/227, bihar 46/168.

    إلى أن جاءت الأخبار بخروجه وادعائه الإمامة، فعن داود الرقي قال: دخلت على جعفر بن محمد، فقال: ما الذي أبطأ بك عنا يا داود؟ فقلت: حاجة عرضت لي بالكوفة هي التي أبطأت بي عنك، جعلت فداك، فقال لي: ماذا رأيت بها؟ قلت: رأيت عمك زيداً على فرس ذنوب،قد تقلد مصحفاً، وقد حف به فقهاء الكوفة، وهو يقول: يا أهل الكوفة، إني العلم بينكم وبين الله تعالى، قد عرفت ما في كتاب الله من ناسخه ومنسوخه، فقال أبو عبد الله: يا سماعة بن مهران، ائتني بتلك الصحيفة، فأتاه بصحيفة بيضاء، فدفعها إليَّ، وقال لي: اقرأ هذه بما أخرج إلينا أهل البيت، يرثه كابر عن كابر من لدن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فقرأتها فإذا فيها سطران:
    السطر الأول: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله.
    والسطر الثاني: أسماء الأئمة مكتوبة من قبل أن يخلق آدم بألفي عام،فقال أبو عبدالله: فأين يتاه بزيد ويذهب به؟ إن أشد الناس لنا عداوة وحسداً الأقرب إلينا فالأقرب

    In the Narration above, The News of Zaid’s Rebellion reached The ears of the companion of Al Sadiq so he came to him and told him that The Scholars of Kufah are all happy with Zaid and that Zaid is Saying that he is the knowledgeable Scholar that knows everything about the Quran and the Sunnah, Then Al Sadiq told his companion to bring him this white paper and told him to read it, In the first line was “No God But Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger” and the second line “Names of the Imams written down 2000 years before the birth of Adam” then Ja’afar Said: Where is Zaid mentioned? Truly the people who hate us and bare enmity and jealousy towards us are those closest to us.

    Source: Mintakhab al Athar 34, Ghaybat al nu’umani 42, biharul Anwar 46/173 & 47/141.

    Then Ja’afar al Sadiq completely contradicts himself here:

    ويقول: رحمه الله،أما إنه كان مؤمناً، وكان عارفاً، وكان عالماً، وكان صدوقاً،أما إنه لو ظفر لوفى،أما إنه لو ملك لعرف كيف يضعها

    Al Sadiq Said After the death of Zaid: May Allah have mercy on him, he was a believer and a Knower and a Scholar and he was Truthful, if he were to rule he would have done great.

    Source: Rijal al Kesshi 184, Mu’ujam al khoei 3/178 & 7/347, biharul Anwar 47/326 & 52/301.
    Not only does it contradict because someone is clearly fabricating Hadiths But if he was a “Scholar” and a “Knower” and if he was “Truthful” then how can he not acknowledge or even know about the Imamah of his brother, father and nephew the answer is below:

    قيل لمؤمن الطاق: ما الذي جرى بينك وبين زيد بن علي في محضر أبي عبدالله؟ قال: قال زيد بن علي: يا محمد بن علي، بلغني أنك تزعم أن في آل محمد إماماً مفترض الطاعة؟ قال: قلت: نعم،وكان أبوك علي بن الحسين أحدهم،فقال: وكيف وقد كان يؤتي بلقمة وهي حارة فيبردها بيده ثم يلقمنيها، أفترى أنه كان يشفق عليَّ من حرِّ اللقمة ولا يشفق علي من حر النار.
    وفي رواية: قال زيد: ويحك! فما كان يمنعه من أن يقول لي،فوالله لقد كان يؤتى بالطعام الحار فيقعدني على فخذه ويتناول البضعة فيبردها ثم يلقمنيها،أفتراه كان يشفق عليِّ من حرِّ الطعام ولا يشفق عليِّ من حرِّ النار

    They said to Mumin al Taq what happened between you and Zaid in the presence of Abi Abdullah? Al Taq said that Zaid said to his brother al Baqir: O Muhammad Bin Ali I hear that you are claiming that there is an Imam from AleMuhammad which we must Obey and Follow, Al Taq told him: Yes there is and your father was one of them, Zaid Then Said: My Father used to cool down the hot food for me so was he afraid that I burn my tongue and was he not afraid that I burn in Hell for not knowing My imam and religion?

    Source: Rijal al Kesshi 164 & 165, Mu’ujam al khoei 7/349 & 17/35, Biharul Anwar 46/189 & 193 & 47/405.
    So there you go According to the twelvers there are 12 Holy saintly Infallible Imams But one of AhlulBayt who is a Scholar and a Knowledgeable Man “Zaid Bin Ali” never knew about it even though his father, broher and Nephew were Holy infallible imams with their names written down 2000 years before Adam.

    Finally I like to say that not only Zaid “Claimed Imamah” in the twelver books but Many others from AhlulBayt did that so I mention these three Fabricated twelver narrations:

    الصادق إلى القول رداً على من قال له: ما يزال يخرج رجل منكم أهل البيت فيقتل ويقتل معه بشر كثير، فأطرق طويلاً، ثم قال: إن فيهم الكذابين

    Al Sadiq Said: Still Men from AhlulBayt go and fight and Die and many die with them…Then he said: There are The Liars amongst those Men.

    وكان ينهى أن يخرج أحد مع من يخرج من أهل البيت قبل المهدي

    He said: it is forbidden to go (Do Rebellion) with anyone from AhlulBayt until the Mahdi.

    فيقول: مثل من خرج منا أهل البيت قبل قيام القائم مثل فرخ طار ووقع في كوة فتلاعبت به الصبيان

    Al Baqir Said: The Example of he who is from ahlulBayt which goes Out (In Rebellion) before the Mahdi appears is like that of a Baby bird that falls from its nest and then children play with it.
    Sources: Al Ihtijaj 204, Bihar 46/179 & 52/304 & 52/139, Al Rawdah 310, Ghaybat al Nu’umani 199, Noor al thaqalayn 4/46, Al Manaqib 4/188.

    Nice try Rafidah.


    Nchallah i'll post more Narrations about him soon if time permits,

    Salam


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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Some more credible Shia narrations about Zayd ibn Ali:

    http://www.maaref-foundation.net/eng..._reza_1/30.htm


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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Quote Originally Posted by SA7 View Post
    Some more credible Shia narrations about Zayd ibn Ali:

    http://www.maaref-foundation.net/eng..._reza_1/30.htm
    I Know they weren't credible, nothing from your books is credible in fact I called it "Fabrication section" But just notice why they made these Fabrications up during those days and you'll understand what was happening then.

    أبو الحسين الهاشمي العلوي المدني أخو أبي جعفر الباقر وعبد الله وعمر وعلي وحسين وأمه أم ولد روى عن أبيه زين العابدين وأخيه الباقر وعروة بن الزبير وعنه ابن أخيه جعفر بن محمد وشعبة وفضيل بن مرزوق والمطلب ابن زياد وسعيد بن خثيم وابن أبي الزناد وكان ذا علم وجلالة وصلاح هفا وخرج فاستشهد وفد على متولي العراق يوسف بن عمر فأحسن جائزته ثم رد فأتاه قوم من الكوفة فقالوا ارجع نبايعك فما يوسف بشيء فأصغى إليهم وعسكر فبرز لحربه عسكر يوسف فقتل في المعركة ثم صلب أربع سنين
    وقال الفسوي كلم هشاما في دين فأبى عليه وأغلظ له قال عيسى بن يونس جاءت الرافضة زيدا فقالوا تبرأ من أبي بكر وعمر حتى ننصرك قال بل أتولاهما قالوا إذا نرفضك فمن ثم قيل لهم الرافضة وأما الزيدية فقالوا بقوله وحاربوا معه وذكر إسماعيل السدي عنه قال الرافضة حزبنا مرقوا علينا وقيل لما انتهزه هشام وكذبه قال من أحب الحياة ذل وقال
    إن المحكم ما لم يرتقب حسدا * ويرهب السيف أو وخز القنا هتفا
    من عاذ بالسيف لا فرجة عجبا * موتا على عجل أو عاش فانتصفا
    عاش نيفا وأربعين سنة وقتل يوم ثاني صفر سنة اثنتين وعشرين ومئة رحمه الله وروى عبد الله بن أبي بكر العتكي عن جرير بن حازم قال رأيت النبي كأنه متساند إلى خشبة زيد بن علي وهو يقول هكذا تفعلون بولدي قال عباد الرواجني أنبأنا عمرو بن القاسم قال دخلت على جعفر الصادق وعنده ناس من الرافضة فقلت إنهم يبرؤون من عمك زيد فقال برأ الله ممن تبرأ منه كان والله أقرأنا لكتاب الله وأفقهنا في دين الله وأوصلنا للرحم ما تركنا وفينا مثله
    وروى هاشم بن البريد عن زيد بن علي قال كان أبو بكر رضي الله عنه إمام الشاكرين ثم تلا " وسيجزي الله الشاكرين " ثم قال البراءة من أبي بكر هي البراءة من علي وعن معاذ بن أسد قال ظهر ابن لخالد القسري على زيد بن علي وجماعة أنهم عزموا على خلع هشام فقال هشام لزيد بن علي بلغني عنك كذا قال ليس بصحيح قال قد صح عندي قال أحلف لك قال لا أصدقك قال إن الله لن يرفع من قدر من حلف له بالله فلم يصدق قال اخرج عني قال إذا لا تراني إلا حيث تكره
    قلت خرج متأولا وقتل شهيدا وليته لم يخرج وكان يحيى ولده لما قتل بخراسان فقال يحيى
    لكل قتيل معشر يطلبونه * وليس لزيد بالعراقين طالب
    قلت ثار يحيى بخراسان وكاد أن يملك قال ابن سعد قتله سلم بن أحوز وأمه هي ريطة بنت عبد الله بن محمد بن الحنفية وقال الهيثم لم يعقب يحيى وكان نصر بن سيار عامل خراسان قد بعث سلما إلى يحيى فظفر به فقتله بعد حروب شديدة وزحوف ثم أصاب يحيى بن زيد سهم في صدغه فقتله فاحتزوا رأسه وبعثوا به إلى هشام بن عبد الملك إلى الشام وصلبت جثته بجوزجان ثم أنزلها أبو مسلم الخراساني وواراه وكتب بإقامة النياحة عليه ببلخ أسبوعا وبمرو وما ولد إذ ذاك ولد بخراسان من العرب والأعيان إلا سمي يحيى ودعا أبو مسلم بديوان بني أمية فجعل يتصفح أسماء قتلة يحيى ومن سار في ذلك البعث لقتاله فمن كان حيا قتله وقال الليث بن سعد قتل يحيى سنة خمس وعشرين ومئة رحمه الله



    المصدر: سير اعلام النبلاء للذهبي
    Last edited by TripolySunni; 28-02-2010 at 10:13 PM.


  5. #5
    Senior Member Mutazili's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    salam

    zaid (ra) holds great status for shias also and your opinion about shia narrations being a fabrication all of them is just biased , unscientific and unfair.

    the narration given by the brother is the opinion held by early imams of ahlbait(as) and early shias.

    zaid(ra) was a very pious and courageous man and here's what rasool allah said about him:

    Jabir ibn Yazid al-Jo’fi, on the authority of Abi Ja’far Muhammad ibn Ali Al-Baqir (s), on the authority of his father, on the authority of Ali (s) that God’s Prophet (s) told Al-Hussein (s), “O Hussein! There will be a man from your progeny called Zayd. He and his companions will cross the rows of the people on the Resurrection Day with brilliant faces. They will enter Paradise without any reckoning.”
    also imam al-sadiq said :

    حدّثني نصر بن الصباح ، قال : حدثنا إسحاق بن محمّد البصري ، قال : حدّثني علي بن إسماعيل ، قال : أخبرني فضيل الرسان ، قال : دخلت على أبي عبد الله عليه السلام بعدما قتل زيد بن علي ، فادخلت بيتا جوف بيت ، فقال لي : يا فضيل قتل عمي زيد قلت : نعم ، جعلت فداك. قال : رحمه الله ، أما أنّه كان مؤمنا ، وكان عارفا ، وكان عالما ، وكان صدوقاً ، أما أنّه لو ظفر لوفى ، أما أنّه لو ملك لعرف كيف يضعها

    so imam sadiq(as) said about him: he was a believer(momin) and he was truthful.

    there's agreement amongst shia scholars specialised in rijel that zaid ibn ali(ra) was extremely thiqat .

    ws


  6. #6
    Senior Member TripolySunni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazili View Post

    there's agreement amongst shia scholars specialised in rijel that zaid ibn ali(ra) was extremely thiqat .

    ws
    I dare them to say otherwise those who claim the love of ahlulBayt, I Know full well how much the ahlulBayt loved eachother But When Zaid RAA Went to take the Caliphate Then these narrations were fabricated because he wasn't their Imam and his actions opposed the theory of Imamah altogether because it was supposed to be for his brother or nephew Even his son rebelled after him and died in Khurasan . In Fact if you Didn't know they invented many narrations to insult many from ahlulbayt who they accuse of "Caliming to be Imams" like Ibn al hanafiyah ect...

    NOTE: Zaid wasn't a Muatazili.

    Salam


  7. #7
    Senior Member Mutazili's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    . In Fact if you Didn't know they invented many narrations to insult many from ahlulbayt who they accuse of "Caliming to be Imams" like Ibn al hanafiyah ect...

    [/QUOTE]

    proof!!

    wassalam


  8. #8
    Senior Member TripolySunni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazili View Post
    . In Fact if you Didn't know they invented many narrations to insult many from ahlulbayt who they accuse of "Caliming to be Imams" like Ibn al hanafiyah ect...
    proof!!

    wassalam[/QUOTE]

    That's a whole different ball game, maybe later when I have time as I still haven't finished my last one.


  9. #9
    Senior Member Mutazili's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Quote Originally Posted by TripolySunni View Post
    proof!!

    wassalam
    That's a whole different ball game, maybe later when I have time as I still haven't finished my last one.[/QUOTE]

    Brother this is a dangerous game you are playing , saying All shia hadiths are fabricated is unscientific and wrong and the same applies to shia who say all sunni hadiths are fabricated .

    it's like tow kids saying to each other: my father is good and yours is bad . it's childish

    present proof because this is a duty before Allah never to accuse people without proof .

    u are trying to prove what? that shia hated zaid ? you can't because that's not true and if you think they fabricated hadith praising him because he's from ahlbait so they cannot show hatred towards him then you cannot be more wrong!!

    shia have negative view about mohammed ibn abdilleh (nafs az-zakyyah) and his revolt even though he's from ahlbait , also the same applies to the brother of imam ridha who is hated by shia .

    shia follow their imams : if someone is praised by imams then they love him and he's discredited then they don't even if he's from ahlbayt as i showed you some examples


  10. #10
    Senior Member TripolySunni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Imam Zaid Bin Ali Zain'ul Abedeen r.a

    Be patient mutazili man.
    Last edited by TripolySunni; 03-04-2010 at 11:44 AM.


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