Unintentional talaq in the past?

[hope1]

Assalamu alaikum,

Yes talaq is a complicated issue - and it seems the whole iftaa is only dealing with talaq issues these days. Brothers are finding new and innovative ways to do divorce.

Also if the couple are divorced - I don't believe permission of husband is needed to annul a civil/secular divorce. Can't the wife start the divorce process in a secular court?

[eTeacher]

When it comes to vague words, they have differed when for example the couple was already talking about divorce. If he used vague words hinting to divorce in a situation where divorce was already discussed, the scholars also rule this as talaq irrespective if the husband had an intention for it or not.

Correct. The important point here is, "where divorce was already discussed". But there is a lot of detail to this point as well and it's not as straightforward as your sentence makes it out to be. For example the statement "Leave!" This statement irrespective of if he was happy, or angry, or when divorce was already discussed, it all depends on his intention.

The statement, "You are separated!", in moments of happiness or anger, it all depends on the intention but when divorce was already discussed, then divorce will occur even without the intention of divorce.

The husband is clearly trying to hide his true intention when he was suggesting a divorce in vague words. The fact remains that the woman in question believed it to be a divorce. Sometimes vague words can also clearly constitute a talaq when it is considered in the tradition [urf] as talaq. Also remember that a talaq in a joke does count as a talaq.

This could be a matter of zina and I would suggest the sister to first consult with her husband and try to exactly remember what was said under which circumstances. List everything up and then present it to a Mufti.

I don't think the husband is clearly trying to hide his true intentions. He could have been bluffing all along with his words or he never had any intention of divorcing her.

Yes. Vague words can constitute talaq according to custom. If he mentioned such words and they are used as divorce, then even though the explicit word of divorce was not used, divorce will occur even though he had no intention.

Correct about listing everything in order and in sequence.

[eTeacher]

I try my best to stay away from this Q & A section of SF. It takes up too much time. I must have spent at least 2 hours on this issue. Right now, it's 8:44 AM here and I'm late for Mufti class. I guess I'll have to tell my teacher that I was busy with Ifta work and I was 'working from home'. : )

My younger brother is a Mufti and he has dealt with about 60 cases of marital conflict and divorce. Maybe she can contact him at the following website: http://iftaa.jucanada.org/contact_us.aspx His phone number is there as well... : ) ....

[eTeacher]

Assalamu alaikum,

Also if the couple are divorced - I don't believe permission of husband is needed to annul a civil/secular divorce. Can't the wife start the divorce process in a secular court?

A few things:

1) First she has to ascertain if there is a possibility of her being able to remain with him or not. That's why she needs to write out everything in detail. If yes, then she should request her husband to remarry her by performing a Nikah ceremony at home priavtely if they wish to.
2) If the husband says that he had no intention of divorcing her when he used implicit words, then that will be between him and his creator. She will not be sinning if he is lying.
3) If she is sure that he has issued her an explicit divorce, and he took her back prior to her delivery or prior to the completion of three mentstrual cycles, and this happened three times, then for sure she can't remain with him now. In the case of three explicit talaqs being used, she should initiate a civil secular divorce in Turkey even if the husband doesn't want her to. I don't all the rules of Turkey. But if she knows for sure that she can not remain in marriage because he did not take her back in time or he issued three explicit talaqs, then she should initiate the divorce proceedings in Turkish court if possible.

That's it for now. It's nearly 9:00 AM. Have to go.

[eTeacher]

Both the husband and wife are at fault in this issue. Not only them, but every single Muslim couple (single, couple : ) ) who get married without learning the fiqh of marriage and divorce prior to marriage or immediately after marriage. Then when issues arise, we start pleading ignorance and start acting as if we are inflicted with senile dementia and Alzheimer's at the age of 25.

We can spend 100000's hours for secular education or wasting our time in many places, but we can't take out about only 15 hours of our life to learn the related fiqh issues of marriage and divorce.

And god forbid...if such a detailed course is offered and minimal fees are charged! People start complaining! We can spend $1000's of dollars for secular education but we are not ready to spend a fraction of that amount for such an important topic upon which lies our happiness in this world and the next.

May Allah assist us all. : )

[hope1]

Both the husband and wife are at fault in this issue. Not only them, but every single Muslim couple (single, couple : ) ) who get married without learning the fiqh of marriage and divorce prior to marriage or immediately after marriage. Then when issues arise, we start pleading ignorance and start acting as if we are inflicted with senile dementia and Alzheimer's at the age of 25.

We can spend 100000's hours for secular education or wasting our time in many places, but we can't take out about only 15 hours of our life to learn the related fiqh issues of marriage and divorce.

And god forbid...if such a detailed course is offered and minimal fees are charged! People start complaining! We can spend $1000's of dollars for secular education but we are not ready to spend a fraction of that amount for such an important topic upon which lies our happiness in this world and the next.

May Allah assist us all. : )

Assalamu alaikum,

Mufti Ibrahim Kureshi (who also deals with a lot of divorce issues in Toronto) did a Fiqh of Marriage course over 11 weeks. It's a total of 15-18 hours worth I think. The whole thing is available for free over here:

http://www.propheticteachings.org/#Fiqh_of_Marriage_

No need to spend money - the course was free too. Reward is only from Allah.

Your brother is qadi too eh?

[ENIGMA]

Assalamu alaikum,

Mufti Ibrahim Kureshi (who also deals with a lot of divorce issues in Toronto) did a Fiqh of Marriage course in Toronto over 11 weeks. It's a total of 15-18 hours worth I think. The whole thing is available for free over here:

http://www.propheticteachings.org/#Fiqh_of_Marriage_

No need to spend money - the course was free too. Reward is only from Allah.

Your brother is qadi too eh?

Seeing as its you who has posted the link,i'll trust the content

where did Mufti sahib study?

[hope1]

Seeing as its you who has posted the link,i'll trust the content

where did Mufti sahib study?

Content is legit. He studied in Darul Uloom Dhabel (7 to 9 years I think) and then did Iftaa in Azaadville. Mufti Husain was there in Azadville at the same time as him. He is well connected to Mufti Ahmed Khanpuri (principal of Dhabel and foremost khalifa of Mufti Mahmoodul Hasan).

[eTeacher]

Assalamu alaikum,

Mufti Ibrahim Kureshi (who also deals with a lot of divorce issues in Toronto) did a Fiqh of Marriage course in Toronto over 11 weeks. It's a total of 15-18 hours worth I think. The whole thing is available for free over here:

http://www.propheticteachings.org/#Fiqh_of_Marriage_

No need to spend money - the course was free too. Reward is only from Allah.

Your brother is qadi too eh?

Jazakumullah for that link. I never knew it existed. I wonder how many people would actually listen to it now? It's free. It's on the net. It's not longer than 20 hours. Listen to it over a span of a couple of months. But don't come complaining later that I didn't have the money or the time to study the course. No one is that busy. Don't belittle the link just because it's free.

Was wondering...how many people came and attended that course? I don't expect many attendees but if it was some famous scholar speaking on a random topic, people would flock to the lecture. I just can't understand how we Muslims are so apathetic to increase our knowledge. Just because the topic of divorce is not fun listening to because it's boring, doesn't mean that we shouldn't.

It's fardh for every single married Muslim to learn this topic.

That header in the link seems as if it's a picture of Turkey. : ) Why must you torture me?

Yup. He did the Qadhi course in India.

[hope1]

Jazakumullah for that link. I never knew it existed. Jazakumullah for the link. I wonder how many people would actually listen to it now? It's free. It's on the net. It's not longer than 20 hours. Listen to it over a span of a couple of months. But don't come complaining later that I didn't have the money or the time to study the course. No one is that busy. Don't belittle the link just because it's free.

Was wondering...how many people came and attended that course? I don't expect many attendees but if it was some famous scholar speaking on a random topic, people would flock to the lecture. I just can't understand how we Muslims are so apathetic to increase our knowledge. Just because the topic of divorce is not fun listening to because it's boring, doesn't mean that we shouldn't.

It's fardh for every single married Muslim to learn this topic.

That header in the link seems as if it's a picture of Turkey. : ) Why must you torture me?

Yup. He did the Qadhi course in India.

Assalamu aliakum,

I myself was there for a couple of classes only (due to other commitments) but I do know that brothers and sisters combined there were approximately 50. There was a bigger sister's turnout I heard and the separation was done very well as brothers who attended the Path to Piety morning sessions will attest to.

InshaAllah moulana you should tell our parents it is fardh upon us to get married as well (in the current situation). Knowledge has been learned, it's time to put to practice (the nikah part) ; )