Watch Dr. Naik with SRK and Soha Ali Live!

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Assalamu aliakum brother,

You completely misread my question and avoided answering the real question. I don't want to argue further, but if you want you can reread what I wrote: You are making the wrong analogy. I never compared naked modeling to working outside in hijab in the sense that they are the same level of sin.

Working outside (not very bad) : no suspicion b/c of condition
Modeling (much worse): why suspicion? we don't know condition which forced the woman to choose modeling

Second you did not even touch on the issue of "changing times".

I don't agree with their actions. I am just asking where is the coherence in your analogy.

Lets try to stick to the subject for a change, shall we?

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post463440

Soha Ali is the daughter of NAWAB PATUDI who have been billionaires for generations.

If you don't know anything about the family and their background which you don't then it would be prudent, Islamic and wise to accept it and refrain from commenting instead of making random points.

[UmHasan]

Moulana Mahmood sb is a man of integrity and high morals. He has khilafat from his father, and is a pious, godfearing man with truck-loads more gayrah than those of you who are criticizing him. He pushes himself forward into situations that are difficult for him, to address issues that need addressing in this day and age. As a Muslim MP he has a job and duty to Indian Muslims that he spends night and day trying to fulfill. His life is devoted to this cause.

As those of you passing judgement on him are doing so without full knowledge of this case, it's circumstances and reasons, you would do yourself a favour by not being so rash in condemnation.

If you still insist on banging on about the morals of the woman, (who has nothing to do with Moulana) then please answer my questions posed here (post 70). If not then kindly- shut up.

[ArtisticVeil]

First it was Mawlana Arshad (DB) and now this - that's a joke btw I'm not passing any judgement. But what happened to that thread about Ml Arshad? Mysteriously disappeared like many other threads on SF

I watched the whole thing. If we leave aside the points of whether they should be there in the first place, the performances were poor.

The panelists DID have opportunity to speak and they just had to take a leading role in the discussion. This is how these discussions work - you need to push yourself forward. The job of the chair is to maintain the momentum of the discussion - not to silence some and not others. We fall into this mentality of being victimised, bullied and hard done by whenever we get the chance! Sadly, Dr. Naik was trying reference every word he says from memory which is not going to go down well in a discussion which requires SOCIAL capabilities. Mawlana Mahmood Madani was just cracking jokes and trying to be funny (that's the impression I got). If he had taken a very serious position and authoritative role, I feel it would have been more productive. It was clear that he commanded MUCH respect after the guy next to him spoke of his courageous Fatwa. Seriously Mawlana should have come out at that point and TAKEN OVER THE SHOW!!!!!!

I'm not going to comment on whether they should be there or not in the first place, but I am much inclined to Colonel's views. At the same time, I wouldn't be as firm/confident on those views as no doubt there are countless nuances and it isn't as black and white - and we should try to make excuses for Mawlana. Let's try enumerate 70 excuses after having a bad thought, and then voice our views.

Let me start:

1. Maybe Mawlana was held at gun point and forced to participate!

That wasn't a serious excuse but it goes back to brother SY1's point - let's investigate first...

Brillant post!!

It's useless to sit here and argue over whether Maulana should have been a participant or not, the reality is that he participated and so he should have been better prepared to argue his point..in such discussions its a case of who can shout the loudest. Personally, I felt that Dr Naik made a complete fool of himself especially when he started stringing in references from the Quran. In such instances, when one is debating with people who quite frankly do not give two hoots about what the scriptures say, need to be impressed by a more intellectual and social debate...something which they can connect with gives an insight from a different angle.

I can understand why Maulana played it safe by joking his way through it but it would have been more purposeful if he discussed a point or two more seriously and as Rahmaniyyah suggested he should have been more engaging and vocal. I didnt even notice Soha Ali and didnt see much point of her presence.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

Moulana Mahmood sb is a man of integrity and high morals. He has khilafat from his father, and is a pious, godfearing man with truck-loads more gayrah than those of you who are criticizing him. He pushes himself forward into situations that are difficult for him, to address issues that need addressing in this day and age. As a Muslim MP he has a job and duty to Indian Muslims that he spends night and day trying to fulfill. His life is devoted to this cause.

As those of you passing judgement on him are doing so without full knowledge of this case, it's circumstances and reasons, you would do yourself a favour by not being so rash in condemnation.

If you still insist on banging on about the morals of the woman, (who has nothing to do with Moulana) then please answer my questions posed here (post 70). If not then kindly- shut up.

Aapa,

All of this means nothing! Either make a point or move on with your reliance on abstract points like "He knows more then you..." OR "He has Khilafah from A or B..."

All of his credentials put together and doesn't mean:

a) He can't make a mistake

b) It can't be pointed out WHEN he indeed makes a mistake

Your entire argument and way of thinking revolves around two premises:

i) Anyone with the name "Maulana" and "Deoband" should NOT be criticised no matter what
ii) If they have Khilafah from someone major then they are really above the law

I was waiting for someone to break down and actually make the point which you are making.

All of the silly arguments, semantics, dictionary defintions are not the points which you guys are actually trying to make. Your point is that he is a Maulana, graduate of Darul-uloom Deoband, Khalifah of Maulana Madani (RA) , Grand-son of Shaykh Hussain Ahmed Madani (RA) therefore HE CANNOT BE CRITICISED. And HOW DARE I QUESTION! Therefore I must be hated/refuted/destroyed and dismantled.

Thats your point in a nutshell.

If you and others look deep inside your hearts and minds thats your point i.e. HE IS RIGHT and HE MUST BE DEFENDED AT ALL COSTS and I AM WRONG and I MUST BE REFUTED AT ALL COSTS! But although you know that is the truth you will NOT come out and admit it and keep playing games and more games...

P.S: Lastly the recommendations of contact Jamiat (India) ARE ABSURD. I didn't choose to make this Public, Maulana did...It is in PUBLIC DOMAIN I didn't put it there, I found it there

Even putting Shariah aside, this was a PR disaster for Islam, accept it

[Rahmaniyyah]

Moulana Mahmood sb is a man of integrity and high morals. He has khilafat from his father, and is a pious, godfearing man with truck-loads more gayrah than those of you who are criticizing him. He pushes himself forward into situations that are difficult for him, to address issues that need addressing in this day and age. As a Muslim MP he has a job and duty to Indian Muslims that he spends night and day trying to fulfill. His life is devoted to this cause.

As those of you passing judgement on him are doing so without full knowledge of this case, it's circumstances and reasons, you would do yourself a favour by not being so rash in condemnation.

If you still insist on banging on about the morals of the woman, (who has nothing to do with Moulana) then please answer my questions posed here (post 70). If not then kindly- shut up.

Sister I don't think anyone will doubt Mawlana's sincerity and efforts. In fact I'm confident all of us put togehter in this discussion will not match Mawlana in this regard. May Allah accept them and raise his ranks ameen. While I TOTALLY disagree with Colonel's approach, his points need to be addressed - but your points must be addressed first. I'm still unsure as to why Colonel saab conveniently brushed over your questions and quite diligently addressed everyone elses points while I think your post had the most substance to speak to Colonel on his level.

[Colonel_Hardstone]

10.You do realise that Moulana is a sayyad, a grandson of the Prophet If you have no respect for anything else then at least respect this. Please do not try to suggest that your words are not disrespectful and you are merely just disagreeing with his actions. In my world, respecting someone means not criticizing them in such a ruthless manner on a public forum. Would you accept your son/ daughter doing the same to you?

First time I have seen this post where some questions were asked of me, otherwise I would have answered them.

The quoted text makes some very serious and grave points.

For the record the connection with Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) DID NOT EVEN occur to me and may Allah (SWT) forgive me FOR SOMETHING which I didn't even know about.

I will NOT participate in this dicussion any longer because it has been turned and slanted in a different way. I have not disrespected Maulana, I disagreed with his actions but for the sake of the honour of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) I am out.

[UmHasan]

As you have alluded to this theory of yousr before , please let me clear up some misconceptions on your behalf, as no one knows better what I believe than I myself.

(1) I DO NOT consider the ulamah to be infallible. I do believe they make mistakes. Moulana Mahmood Sb and Moulana Arshad Sb, just like every other human being in this world, including the ones who you revere and look up to, will make mistakes.

(2) Their mistakes should be pointed out and insha allah they will learn from them . But it is not the job of the layman to do so publicly. The layman should have at least have the respect to refrain from criticizing on a public forum. If you really feel your words are laden with wisdom then go and approach the ulamah and offer constructive criticism. You have brushed aside that suggestion before, but it is a valid point. Go ring up Moulana and offer your words of wisdom. He is a very patient, diplomatic individual who does not think he is above criticism.

(3) For those who enjoy being couch critics, criticizing when the ulamah take an initiative and criticizing when they don’t – I propose that you put your words into actions. As suggested by someone else in a post above,( or somewhere else.....) it is not JUST the job of the ulamah to go out and spread Islam. It is the responsibility of you, me and every Muslim who is reading this to do their bit. Please don’t make excuses by saying, ‘ I do my three days of jamaat every month so I have fulfilled my obligation.’ There’s a lot more to spreading deen then that.

(4) If the issue is with a Moulana of such a calibre sharing a platform with Suha Ali, then maybe it should have been delegated to a non-aalim. Can you see any non-alims doing this job that you suggest is not fit for a Moulana? If there was, then you would have said, ‘ the awaam are doing the job of the ulamah’ ... so no pleasing some.

(5) As for you saying that I believe anyone with khilafah are above the law and cannot be criticized, then please do not insult me by attributing such childish theories to me. Of course I do not believe that. My husband has khilafah from two different tariqas- I still have the occasional go at him when I want to.
Everyone makes mistakes. Even the companions did. Do we criticize them, or even hint at them? No. Out of RESPECT.

(6) I am glad you have chosen to respect his lineage and leave it to that. But my other questions to you still stand.

[UmHasan]

......Therefore I must be hated/refuted/destroyed and dismantled.

Just in case you really meant the above, I would just like to say that if you felt that this is what I was trying to do then my apologies- I did not intend that nor give that impression. Maybe I am not very articulate at expresing myself but I do not mean to offend or attack anyone. That is the truth, wallah.

To be honest I am not even very angry.... just trying to give an opposing point of view and correct views that I felt were wrong.

[seeker_of_ilm]

I hope that Allah gives us all the ability to make sound judgements when dealing with the media and that he gives us all respect for the ulamah.

[meelash]

السلام عليكم,

Disclaimer: I did not watch the YouTube video, because I did not want to be guilty of the same sins that the learned individuals being discussed in this thread are.

I recognize that there is a policy on SF against disrespect of 'Ulama, and I may be bending the rules in this post. However, I feel strongly enough about this issue, and believe it is a dire enough issue that I will risk it and accept consequences/advice/dressing-down from the 'ulama of the forum for it.

First point: A person who has made themselves out to be a scholar and representative of Islam in public, and then makes statements and does actions that misrepresent and are not appropriate with that high status, is not immune from criticism in the way a private layperson is, not matter how great of a sinner he is. It is appropriate for the Muslims to publicly criticize, disavow, and distance themselves from those actions and statements and make it clear that such a person no longer represents us or Islam. In fact this is a RESPONSIBILITY of our 'Ulama to speak against these people and make it clear they ARE WRONG.

Second point: it is undoubtedly haraaam to sit in a gathering of fussaaq and fujjaar, Muslim and non-Muslims who take their religion as play and sport. Any doubts on this can be cleared up by consulting the tafseer of Ayah 68 in Surah Al-An'aam.

Third point: I have no doubt, based on past experience, that on this panel, sitting with our learned brothers, were ghayr mahram, bai-purdah women, Muslim and non-Muslim. To sit in such a gathering, discuss with them face to face, is inexcusable haraaam, and undeniably, disgustingly shameful.

Fourth point: Appearing on Television with the knowledge that you will be looked at by millions of ghayr-mahram women, and music will be played during the program, etc. etc .etc... is inexcusably haraam.

When we see someone who we have looked up to as a star of knowledge fall in these crimes, and do so in the false name of representing deen, we need to get as far away from that person as possible, no matter how much it pains us to do so. Plain and simple.

(FINAL POINT: I do not wish to get into an argument of pictures/television being haraam or not on this thread. But, for the sake of anyone who is sincere but worried as to how we can find which aalim is trustworthy or not, I will share a rule of thumb in my experience that has served me well: If you see an aalim being photographed for magazines, appearing on television, etc. STAY AWAY. Again and again, we have seen that these people, among them those whom the awaam consider to be 'great' scholars, even if they start out with sincere intention, fall into self-deception and deception of others. Seriously, think about it. Every major controversy between 'Ulama of our time, every fitnah started by an Aalim, has one side which is appearing on television without a care in the world.
I WILL NOT ARGUE THIS POINT, at least not in this thread. I just hope that someone will benefit from this advice, even if they don't post in the thread.)