Watch Dr. Naik with SRK and Soha Ali Live!

[NeednoName]

As much as we may all disagree with Maulana Madni sharing dais wiith bollywood actors, it would be unfair to accuse him by projecting his act in contrast to the 'way of Ulema-e-Deoband'. Things were entirely different during the time of our elders. Islam was never picked apart as it has been done nowadays by corporate-controlled media. Hence, our elders may not have felt a need to engage in such dialogues with the likes of those who are projected by media and percieved by people as ambassadors of Islam.

What I feel is that in this day and age, we (Ulema alike) cannot afford to remain aloof from engaging in dialogue with those who intentionally or out of ignorance persist in giving the world warped message of Islam.

Assalaam'aaleykum!

[NeednoName]

Btw neither Maulana Madni Sahab nor Dr. Naik did much to correct the other participants and defend Islam.

[pluto]

Exactly.
But the topic will be controversial once again because if our Scholars do not come to the fore then how are they going to defend Islam?
Any way I had tried earlier to watch some of the parts but it never really gelled. Finally I forced myself to watch it full and it was not enjoyable. If you do not know Islam then you can not defend it. Unfortunately too many of those who do not know Islam try to teach us Islam.

If you ask me, I think it'll just plain foolhardiness to expect anything good to come out of such discussions, why? If NDTV was really serious about the matter, would it really bring Soha Ali Khan or for that matter SRK? 'Eyeballs'. Where was M. J. Akbar? To even expect anything good arising out of the kuffar and their machinations is, in my opinion, utter foolishness. What did the Indian Muslims gain in the last 60 years of Congress rule, a party which is supposed to 'sympathize' with the Muslims? Do you really buy into the 'secular' bullcrap? Babri happened under Congress rule, the Congress in rule since 2004 didn't do anything to bring justice to the victims of the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, in fact the whole thing has been reduced to a farce, while if it truly wanted, it could have achieved a lot. While Babri itself is dead and forgotten, not to mention of the Bombay riots of 1993. One instance of justice being delivered please??

If we have to achieve anything, we need to do it ourselves, the kuffar in my opinion will NEVER give us a platform to present the truth.

Have you also seen the debate Maulana Mahmood Madani had on Rajat Sharma's show 'Aap ki Adalat' or something, it was a total riot, the biddatees and Sharma had a field day.

Yet I feel, on NDTV's show, Zakir naik did a very good job. Regd. the 'osama bin laden and 9/11 thing'.

why dont you take your sectarian bias elsewhere?people like you divide the muslim ummah on issues that require them to be united upon. may i ask what relevance your little quip has for the thread?have you ever said something useful anywhere on this forum that would benefit the ummah or do you come here to spread your hatred propaganda?

Please ignore that user, he logs onto SF between his XBOX 360 gaming sessions.

[pluto]

Btw neither Maulana Madni Sahab nor Dr. Naik did much to correct the other participants and defend Islam.

The other participants esp. that journalist guy, have such deep rooted (mis)understanding of Islam, I don't think it'd have been possible to correct them on the show, I'm sure, Soha Ali must have come face to face with a maulana for the first time in her life, forget that, to be identified for her religion must have been a very new experience altogether for her. Allahu alam.

[Maripat]

[COLOR="#000000"]If you ask me, I think it'll just plain foolhardiness to expect anything good to come out of such discussions, why? If NDTV was really serious about the matter, would it really bring Soha Ali Khan or for that matter SRK? 'Eyeballs'.

Actually these people, Barkha Dutt and Co, they shall keep propagating their own perception about Islam and the situation can be changed only when Muslim participation is there. I too have come to the conclusion that no body amongst the participants changes his or her opinion as a result of debates and discussion but their is certainly lots of effect on the audience. If we do not represent Muslim point of view then we give a walk over to the detractors or simply leave the filed open to them. That is a loss.

Where was M. J. Akbar?

Good question. And let me tell you he used to be like them too. Only lately I seen a lot of change in his perception. I have seen that for some time he has gone ahead and talked about we and about reservation for Muslims.

To even expect anything good arising out of the kuffar and their machinations is, in my opinion, utter foolishness.

Shades of gray are there. Even people like Barkha Dutt will be forced to concede a few things - only if we could assert our selves. Unfortunately after coming out of our locality we are too eager to appease the secular intelligentsia. Beloved Prophet(PBUH) said that a person who calls towards bias (asbiat) is not of us. After that, if you believe and practice above Tradition, then how can you be afraid of any accusation of bias or communalism? It is just that we are either not realizing what we are or we are too timid to assert that. This leaves the field open to those who wish to represent Islam and Muslims - or worse to those who want to malign them.

What did the Indian Muslims gain in the last 60 years of Congress rule, a party which is supposed to 'sympathize' with the Muslims? Do you really buy into the 'secular' bullcrap? Babri happened under Congress rule, the Congress in rule since 2004 didn't do anything to bring justice to the victims of the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, in fact the whole thing has been reduced to a farce, while if it truly wanted, it could have achieved a lot. While Babri itself is dead and forgotten, not to mention of the Bombay riots of 1993. One instance of justice being delivered please??

If we have to achieve anything, we need to do it ourselves, the kuffar in my opinion will NEVER give us a platform to present the truth.

You missed Gujrat - we have moved from one milestone communal pogrom to another - that is our unfortunate history of independent India.

Have you also seen the debate Maulana Mahmood Madani had on Rajat Sharma's show 'Aap ki Adalat' or something, it was a total riot, the biddatees and Sharma had a field day.

No - I'll try to find it. After having packed up my TV I constantly find it difficult to keep pave with the media. (Of course I do not have any intention of going back to TV.)

I have heard, I think you yourself told this, that there was another debacle at the time of Rushdie's cancelled visit. We shall keep moving from one disaster to another till we act. Allah(SWT) does not the condition of people till they change what is inside them.

Yet I feel, on NDTV's show, Zakir naik did a very good job. Regd. the 'osama bin laden and 9/11 thing'.

I think it is better if we stick to our guns. Zakir Naik has created a niche for himself and he is doing excellent job of it. It will be better for him to keep pursuing that path. We do need our own Hamzah Tzortzis type of people to handle the media onslaught. It will not happen without doing. We have a lot of ground to cover.

[pluto]

Actually these people, Barkha Dutt and Co, they shall keep propagating their own perception about Islam and the situation can be changed only when Muslim participation is there. I too have come to the conclusion that no body amongst the participants changes his or her opinion as a result of debates and discussion but their is certainly lots of effect on the audience. If we do not represent Muslim point of view then we give a walk over to the detractors or simply leave the filed open to them. That is a loss.

Good question. And let me tell you he used to be like them too. Only lately I seen a lot of change in his perception. I have seen that for some time he has gone ahead and talked about we and about reservation for Muslims.

Shades of gray are there. Even people like Barkha Dutt will be forced to concede a few things - only if we could assert our selves. Unfortunately after coming out of our locality we are too eager to appease the secular intelligentsia. Beloved Prophet(PBUH) said that a person who calls towards bias (asbiat) is not of us. After that, if you believe and practice above Tradition, then how can you be afraid of any accusation of bias or communalism? It is just that we are either not realizing what we are or we are too timid to assert that. This leaves the field open to those who wish to represent Islam and Muslims - or worse to those who want to malign them.

You missed Gujrat - we have moved from one milestone communal pogrom to another - that is our unfortunate history of independent India.

No - I'll try to find it. After having packed up my TV I constantly find it difficult to keep pave with the media. (Of course I do not have any intention of going back to TV.)

I have heard, I think you yourself told this, that there was another debacle at the time of Rushdie's cancelled visit. We shall keep moving from one disaster to another till we act. Allah(SWT) does not the condition of people till they change what is inside them.

I think it is better if we stick to our guns. Zakir Naik has created a niche for himself and he is doing excellent job of it. It will be better for him to keep pursuing that path. We do need our own Hamzah Tzortzis type of people to handle the media onslaught. It will not happen without doing. We have a lot of ground to cover.

I too don't have a tv, I watched it on youtube.

Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cSr2HH2ycg

If there's anytwo who can take on the hypocrite Indian media, its Ml Arshad Madani and Ml Salman nadvi, but of-course, they won't give them a platform.

[Maripat]

If there's anytwo who can take on the hypocrite Indian media, its Ml Arshad Madani and Ml Salman nadvi, but of-course, they won't give them a platform.

for the link.
I feel that we should leave Ulama free to do the work of Deen. Taking on the media misrepresentation is our task and we should be up to it.
Wassalam

PS: Do not forget my Economics and all that thread.

[Maripat]

Aap Ki Adaalat (Your Court)
Part 1
This is programme in which TV journalist calls a public personality on a make believe court with a Judge as well as witnesses. The programme is in Hindi. In this particular episode the accused is Hazrat Maulana Mahmood Madani Sahab (DB). The witness is Mr Shahid Siddiqui who runs a weekly Urdu tabloid called Nai Duniya (New World) - a sensationalist periodical which moves from one conspiracy theory to another at a breath taking speed. Mr Siddiqui has jumped into politics for some time and has done party jumping too in his short political career.

There is another personality on the witness box - a Shankaracharya.

When Brahministic cast system reached a point of no return then around two and a half millenia ago powerful revolutionary movements arose in India leading to formation of a few new religions. Jainism, Buddhism and Aajivak religion. The cast system system hit back in the form of the personality of Shankaracharya who, in his short life, traveled the length and breadth of India and defeated the stalwarts of new movements. As a result of that Buddhism got expelled from India, Jainism subdued to a nearly insignificant denomination and Aajivak completely disappeared. The legacy of Shankaracharya lives on because of the establishment of four posts of Shankaracharya in four corners of India. The name for the posts is Peeth and the head of each of the posts is called a - Shankaracharya.

In the beginning of the episode the prosecutor Rajat Sharma levels the charge on Hazrat Madani (DB) that Deoband has tried to dig up the dead bodies by reiterating the Fatawah on Vande Mataram.

Contd.

[Maripat]

Vane Mataram (I Worship Thee O Mother) is a song from a novel by a Bangali civil servant of British India named Bankim Chand Chaterjee. In the novel there is a group of people who call themselves Santaan (the Children) and they execute an armed struggle against the British. Being a civil servant of the British Empire it was a risky book to write, even if it was in Bengali. In the second and for the subsequent editions the direction of the revolt was changed and now it was a struggle, with inspiration from a goddess, against the Muslim rule and after the defeat of Muslims the goddess accepts that now the British will rule India. The song Vande Mataram is part Sanskrit and part Bangali and Indian polytheistic elements are not difficult to discern in it.

Hazrat Madani(DB) asserts that Dar-ul-Uloom did not dig up old issues to rake up a controversy. The reality is that in some places in the areas around Deoband there were reports of activities of people demanding Dar-ul-Uloom to retract a 12 year old Fatawah against Muslims kids being forced to sing above song. An effigy of Dar-ul-Uloom was burned. Thus the Fatawah was reconfirmed in response to these activities.

Shahid Siddiqui tries to give an interpretation that the song does not mean any polytheism and Dar-ul-Uloom should consult Hindi and Sanskrit scholars.

Shankaracharya said that Ashfaaqullah Khan got hanged while singing this song and there is a huge group of Muslims who sing this song. The song is ratified in constitution of India as a national song.

Rajat Sharma : Is it worship of God?
Shankaracharya : It is Vandana (invocation) of motherland - a center of faith in motherland. It is a symbol of faith in Constitution of India. Opposition to it like opposition of constitution, like treachery of country. This should not be opposed - all should combine to sing it. This will show our unity.

Rajat Sharma (RS) : So they are saying that it is not a mater of worship.
Hazrat Madani(DB) : Shaihd Sahab can ask Dar-ul-Uloom's opinion about this new meaning and if they agree upon it then no Muslims will have objection to it.

RS : But AR Rahman has sung it as Ma Tujhe Salaam (Mother Peace on You).
HM(DB) : You can say salaam to mother a million times. I can say salaam to you. It is easy for Shahid Sahab to send the new meaning to Deoband and get the fatawah.

Shahid Siddiqui (SS) : I'll fax it tomorrow itself.

RS : Is it not true that the first two stanzas of the song are free from worship?
HM(DB) : But the beginning is with Vande (to worship)?

RS : But Shankaracharya calls not singing a revolt against the nation?
HM(DB) : People singing this song but doing all sorts of things does not make them patriots.
SS : And this can not be a criterion of patriotism.

RS : But it is not sung in temples?
HM(DB) : Shahid Sahab is anyway going to clarify it.

RS: You have shifted the onus to him!
HM(DB) : Let us be clear about it that there should not be an insistence that one has to sing it in any condition. On the other hand if it is clarified that there is no worship is implied then there should not be aversion to sing it.

RS : Then there are talks like If you want to live in India sing Vande Mataram!
HM(DB) : This is a regrettable thing.

RS : Uddhav Thakeray said that he who does not say Vande Mataram should go to Pakistan.
HM(DB) : Why talk about him?
RS : But you brought the issue to the fore.
HM(DB): No we do not raise issues. Nobody opposed Two Nation theory more vehemently than Jamiat-e-Ulama.
RS: No doubt about that, about your sacrifices and contributions but why not bring the matter in your convention?
HM(DB): We have no objections to you singing it or he singing it.
RS : But we want to sing it together (wityh you).
HM(DB): No problem again if the earlier matter is cleared.

RS (To Shankaracharya): Maulana says that the Vandana word has the problem
Shankaracharya : The word Mother is there in many anthems, including anthems of Muslim countries like Bangladesh and Indonesia and a country like Srilanka with 8 percent Muslims.
HM(DB): We have love for mother land and ready to give lives for her but We shall not make our own mother God.
RS : But I gave example of AR Rahman.
HM(RB) : We all can say Maa Tujhe Salaam no problem with that.

RS : Javed Akhtar said that he has used it at two places.
HM(DB) : That is his personal opinion.

RS : Shahid Sahab do you take the responsibility to write a letter?
SS (to HM((DB)): Have you seen the dictionary in this matter?
HM(DB) : Yes. It has several meanings.
SS : That is true for so many words so why the objection.
HM(DB) : I am saying Maa Tujhe salaam (Mother Peace on You) then why do you insist on Vande Mataram?
SS: But in the constitution it is national song.
HM(DB) : There is Supreme Court to explain the Constitution and it has said that it is not mandatory to sing it.
SS: But you oject to Muslims singing it.
HM(DB) : Yes because there is worship implied in it.

Person with 786 Cap in Audience : Maulana you are making Vande Mataram singing an issue but Muslims are legging behind in education and there is not talk about their education. Mulims are short of employment.

HM(DB): He has raised a good point. He has not seen the minutes of that meeting. There are 25 resolutions in that. The media has picked up this particular issue and left those 25 resolutions behind. What can we do? He is only talking -we are working. Apart from Madarsaas we are running thousands of schools.

SS: By raising this issue you have drowned your 25v resolutions.
HM(DB): Forgive me your community (media) did that. Dog bites man - no issue. Man bites dog - big issue.

SS: You should have taken care of the man biting the dog!

First part over. Other two parts left for others.

[pluto]

for the link.
I feel that we should leave Ulama free to do the work of Deen. Taking on the media misrepresentation is our task and we should be up to it.
Wassalam

PS: Do not forget my Economics and all that thread.

I'll get back on this in detail.