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Thread: Darse Nizami grads not able to speak in Arabic?

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    Default Darse Nizami grads not able to speak in Arabic?

    My husband graduated from the Darze nizami system and alhamdulilah he did benefit from it, However found it hard to adapt when it came to the Arab system because a lot more memorzition was required.
    At the time Deoband had good connections with Saudi Universities and a fact was that after 8 years the Darz e Nizami system had failed to produce fluent Arabic speakers. Many of the graduates understand core text but are not amazing at Arabic which the least one should be after 9 years of Arabic education.

    then we have our muftis that after their ifta course go and study Arabic language in Egypt , subhanalah i have seen thousands in my 5 years in Egypt from Darul uloom azadville .

    Darze nimazi needs to remove urdu all together for it be a better system and it would improve the course by miles and make it accessible to masses.

    as for Al-Azhar its simply what you make of it i have seen sister come out having memorzed 4 qirat of the quran etc and some come out knowing very little.

    I am personally for the African system of Sudan, Morroco,Mauritinia,Somalia and the whole of North and West Africa . where a student memorzes the mutun and the quran and the Arabic sciences.
    Understanding and memorization and i belief that the above is better suited for that.

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    Senior Member muminah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by motheroftwo View Post
    a fact was that after 8 years the Darz e Nizami system had failed to produce fluent Arabic speakers. Many of the graduates understand core text but are not amazing at Arabic which the least one should be after 9 years of Arabic education.
    .
    Evidently the purpose of dars nimazi is not to teach students how to speak arabic, its for them to understand classical texts.And in many ways, that is sufficient.


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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by muminah View Post
    Evidently the purpose of dars nimazi is not to teach students how to speak arabic, its for them to understand classical texts.And in many ways, that is sufficient.
    I don't what sort of islamic education that is ? near a decade 8 years of islamic education and one has not even become an expert at Arabic? Its an embarrassment that after 8 years of alim course that one has trouble speaking Arabic ?
    it cannot be sufficient Arabic is the door to this religion and it doesn't do it justice.


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    Senior Member muminah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by motheroftwo View Post
    I don't what sort of islamic education that is ? near a decade 8 years of islamic education and one has not even become an expert at Arabic? Its an embarrassment that after 8 years of alim course that one has trouble speaking Arabic ?
    it cannot be sufficient Arabic is the door to this religion and it doesn't do it justice.
    Classical Arabic is the door to religion not modern standard. I am not saying I agree with the darse nizami approach, but I can totally understand where its coming from.


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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    It's not an embarrassment, an embarrassment is when someone can speak Arabic fluently yet he cannot understand the Quran or the classical books due to a lack of structured study into the routes of the language.

    You guys should listen to Sheikh Hamza Karmali's talk on arabic here: http://ecampus.sunnipath.com/vClass/...3-09-event.php

    one point that sticks out the most from that talk is his comment that ' We are not learning Arabic to become functional members of Arab society ' we are studying the language to be able to understand our deen from authentic sources...

    Regarding the memorization of mutun I beleive that every effort should be made to first understand the text 100% then only an attempt to memorise it should be undertaken.
    "The objective behind studying the oppositions viewpoint is to bridge the divide/close the gap and not to gain the upper hand" Sh Tauha Karaan


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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by mospike View Post
    It's not an embarrassment, an embarrassment is when someone can speak Arabic fluently yet he cannot understand the Quran or the classical books due to a lack of structured study into the routes of the language.

    You guys should listen to Sheikh Hamza Karmali's talk on arabic here: http://ecampus.sunnipath.com/vClass/...3-09-event.php

    one point that sticks out the most from that talk is his comment that ' We are not learning Arabic to become functional members of Arab society ' we are studying the language to be able to understand our deen from authentic sources...

    Regarding the memorization of mutun I beleive that every effort should be made to first understand the text 100% then only an attempt to memorise it should be undertaken.
    Were calling people muftis who have trouble communicating in Arabic ? to learn a language is to learn it properly , which means grammer syntax morphoogy etc etc including speaking


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    Senior Member abulayl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by motheroftwo View Post
    I don't what sort of islamic education that is ? near a decade 8 years of islamic education and one has not even become an expert at Arabic? Its an embarrassment that after 8 years of alim course that one has trouble speaking Arabic ?

    To study Islam, a person doesnt need to become expert in arabic language. But to become a mujtahid and more high rank, a person need to be language expert.
    Quote Originally Posted by motheroftwo View Post
    to learn a language is to learn it properly
    a person can study a langauge for 10 years 20 years, there is no border of having "proper" idea of a language.And most of the time, it depends how people practise the langauge everyday. Like in subcontinent people can write good in english, but when they start to speak, you have to laugh at him, allthough he gets 80% mark in writing.


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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Although we're side-tracking from the original topic, we have to differentiate between speaking arabic when it comes to day to day coversation, as opposed to speaking arabic about a fiqhi topic in arabic, which utilizes classical terminology and the grads from Darul Ulums can do easily, i'm sure. Now if the latter can't be executed, then there is definitly a defency, but if it's the former, i don't consider it a deficiency. And we have to take into consideration how much emphasis teachers place on conversational arabic, as well as classes devoted just to it.


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    Default Re: Madrassah vs. University Islamic education

    Quote Originally Posted by streetwalker View Post

    To study Islam, a person doesnt need to become expert in arabic language. But to become a mujtahid and more high rank, a person need to be language expert.
    a person can study a langauge for 10 years 20 years, there is no border of having "proper" idea of a language.And most of the time, it depends how people practise the langauge everyday. Like in subcontinent people can write good in english, but when they start to speak, you have to laugh at him, allthough he gets 80% mark in writing.
    Being able to communicate in Arabic is important being able to hold a conversation is important being able to explain issues in Arabic is important.
    Fact is that we refuse to remove Urdu from the equation putting our students at a disadvatnage to compared to those who study in with a Arabic only medium.

    To be able to study islam one has to be able to understand classical text but is that all the darse nimazi course is interrested in. just understanding.

    I have to admit in Cairo many years ago i remember many ifta course gradautes coming to learn conversational Arabic , so my point simply is that the system could use some tweeking and by having a ma'ad you can remove the use of urdu and then the alim course can be fully in Arabic.

    this also gives students a higher caliber of arabic allowing them to study the language further and deeper.

    i am not discreting deoband at all


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    Default Re: Darse Nizami grads not able to speak in Arabic?

    I love Arabic very much i have studied it for years my children are fluent speakers its at the heart of my family.
    I am not here to critisize darul uloom or deoband , i just find it hard to understand that someone who spend 8 years in islamic education cannot speak Arabic fluently.

    A student of knowledge has many uses for the Arabic language on my fronts and being able to speak is as much a need as understundnng classical text.

    this thread is not in anyway about slang which can be learned in a matter of months. We learned Hassinya in under 5 months thats not the issue here.

    My point is a student who completes the darse nimazi course in Arabic is without doubt a better student than his exact counter part in the urdu medium system. that simply a fact.

    Arabic needs to become a language that our kids understand at all times , our kids need to understand classical texts and the quran and should be able to speak it to each oher


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