changing madhahib

['Abdullaah]

Without mentioning Context, Hadith may not convey full meaning. In the same way Portion of a hadith may not convey full meaning. This is just a Narrow or Tunnel vision of a full form or Big Picture.

That may be true for some authors, however it is not true in this case as the author (Sheikh Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf) has done a good job in being thorough and providing context and background. Also, the purpose of quoting the hadeeth was to further the discussion on the said topic, rather than providing a tafseer of the whole hadeeth. As such, providing only the relevant portion of the hadeeth isn't blameworthy.

Now we can see hadith in Page 106 & 107 has same reference number Sahih Muslim(1:181), but referencing 2 different hadith number that i listed out!!!? How? Really hadith in page 106 & Page 107 different hadith? If yes then they should have diffrent hadith number! Right?

That is a good observation. InshaAllaah I will try to find out from Sheikh Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf whether it's a typo, or that he is using a different referencing method.


And Allaah knows best.

[rqsnnt]

That may be true for some authors, however it is not true in this case as the author (Sheikh Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf) has done a good job in being thorough and providing context and background. Also, the purpose of quoting the hadeeth was to further the discussion on the said topic, rather than providing a tafseer of the whole hadeeth. As such, providing only the relevant portion of the hadeeth isn't blameworthy.
.....


And Allaah knows best.

As-Salaam Alaikum Wa-Rahmatullahi Wa-Barakatuhu

In Shaheeh Muslim


Chapter 24 : THE COMMAND TO OBSERVE PRAYER WITH TRANQUILLITYAND CALMNESS AND PROHIBITION OF MAKING GESTURES WITH HANDS AND LIFTING THEMWHILE PRONOUNCING SALUTATION, ANDTHE COMPLETING OF FIRST ROWSAND JOINING TOGETHER WELL IN THEM


(1) Jabir b. Samura reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: How is it that I see you lifting your hands like the tails of headstrong horses? Be calm in prayer. He (the narrator) said: He then again came to us and saw us (sitting) in circles; he said: How is it that I see you in separate groups? He (the narrator) said: He again came to us and said: Why don't you draw yourselves up in rows as angels do in the presence of their Lord? We said: Messenger of Allah, bow do the angels draw themselves up in rows in the presence of their Lord? He (the Holy Prophet) said: They make the first rows complete and keep close together in the row. (Book #004, Hadith #0864)


(2) Jabir b. Samura reported: When we said prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), we pronounced: Peace be upon you and Mercy of Allah, peace be upon you and Mercy of Allah, and made gesture with the hand on both the sides. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him said: What do you point out with your hands as if they are the tails of headstrong horses? This is enough for you that one should place one's hand on one's thigh and then pronounce salutation upon one's brother on the right side and then on the left. (Book #004, Hadith #0866)


(3) Jabir b. Samura reported: We said our prayer with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and, while pronouncing salutations, we made gestures with our hands (indicating)" Peace be upon you, peace be upon you." The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) looked towards us and said: Why is it that you make gestures with your hands like the tails of headstrong horses? When any one of you pro- nounces salutation (in prayer) he should only turn his face towards his companion and should not make a gesture with his hand. (Book #004, Hadith #0867)


Last 2 hadiths r showing what type of gesture by Hand and when this gesture by Hand was done by Shahab while praying with our Prophet(may peace be upon him). That's very clear.


Brother u r saying

providing only the relevant portion of the hadeeth isn't blameworthy

Noe can u please show us from 1st hadith
1. Lifting hands like the tails of headstrong horses was done Before and After Ruku?

2. If it's relevant to Hand Lifting Before & After Ruku then where it's mentioned? Is there any word Ruku? How it's relevant to Before & After Ruku?

That is a good observation. InshaAllaah I will try to find out from Sheikh Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf whether it's a typo, or that he is using a different referencing method.

InshaAllaah we will go forward after solving our questions.

Salam

['Abdullaah]

Before & After Ruku then where it's mentioned[/B]? Is there any word Ruku? How it's relevant to Before & After Ruku?

The discussion on the ahadeeth are mentioned in page 107, and 108. InshaAllaah if you reread them it will clear up.

[smilesmile]

Everyone in this world is born alone and would be burried alone in any graveyard, non any of his friend or companions, family members, his precher would be burried in the same grave. on the day of judgement , no family member , no one would accompany him to answer to the questions he would be asked, alone he would enter into hell or heaven. so each one is responsible for his action and has freedom to act , freedom to choice his MAZHAB , EVERYONE WOULD BE ANSWERABLE ALONE AND THERE WOULD BE NO zulum FROM HIS ALMIGHTY SIDE AS HE IS ALMIGHTY. JUDGEMENT WOULD BE BASED ON YOUR INTENTIONS , HARDWORK TO FOLLOW RELIGION ( YOUR PERSONAL HARDWORK TOWARDS UNDERSTANDING IT) nd this all would be according to intelligence bestowed on you from almighty God. someone has very little intelligence though tries a lot to understand certain points in religion if can not comprehent would not be blamed for not following that as God is almighty , all KNOWING , HE KNOWS HOW MUCH INTELLIGENCE IS BESTOWED TO HIM FROM HISGOODSELF. therefore HER AMAL KA DARO MADAR ALLAH NA neyatoun per rakh deya hai not on DEKHAWA.

so everyone is born free , has different genetic code, so has different thinking and would not act according to anyone elses genetic make up everyone is free to choose any MAZHAB . so no one should cretize anyone . BELIEVE IT NONE OF IS GOD and telling others you are doing wrong is equal to as if you are thinking you are in a position to decide tHe way GOD would , ALMIGHTY GOD SAYS FORGET THOUSANDS OF YEARS EBADAT IF IS NOT ACCEPTED IN GOD'S EYES , BUT HE WOULD BLESS JANNAT FOR THAT ONE RAKAT SALAT, SIGDA WHICH HE WOULD LIKE.

EVERY MAZHAB EVERY SCHOOL OF THOUGHT IS INFRONT OF GOD AND HE IS ALL KNOWING AND HE IS THE ONE WHO WOULD DECIDE THE WAY HE WOULD LIKE , SO LET EVERYONE DO AS THEY FEEL APPROPRIATE ACCORDING TO THEIR WAY OF THINKING.

WE all know GOD IS ALMIGHTY WHO kNOWS at the last moment if he decide to send everyone from every mazhab in heaven or hell or what he would do? so forget taking his place please , leave everyone free to follow any path he thinks is right.

yes we all can say please try to understand using all your intelligence to follow your path , your conduct to pass life. QURAN SAYS THIS QURAN IS SUFFICIENT FOR those who have intelligence( samaj) and understanding( AQAL). quran is not sufficient for all.

khuda hafiz MAA SAlam

[smilesmile]

kindly let me know if ahadeez are not collected and written after 500 years of khilafate rashda during haroon rasheed and mamoon rasheed's time.

for your information I very much understand and follow DR MAHIR UL QADRI and listen all his lectures ( my choice , very personal choice)

['Abdullaah]

Welcome to the forum.

kindly let me know if ahadeez are not collected and written after 500 years of khilafate rashda during haroon rasheed and mamoon rasheed's time.

That is not correct sister. There are evidences of some ahadeeth being written at the time of the Sahabah (ra). The main point to note, however, is that the people of that time were proficient in being able to memorise ahadeeth with source of narration. Many people from the earliest generation memorised more than 100,000 ahadeeth, mashaAllaah.

[rqsnnt]

The discussion on the ahadeeth are mentioned in page 107, and 108. InshaAllaah if you reread them it will clear up.

As-Salaam Alaikum Wa-Rahmatullahi Wa-Barakatuhu

In page 107 is a continuation of Hadiths from Jabir b. Samura and there is nothing mention Hand lifting Before & After Ruku.

Salam

[smilesmile]

walaho alam. here also on this forum, same old style discussions , those days people were above human being. God says he is MAHAFIZ of Quran , much fewer pages than 100,000 ahadeez . I am unable to understand this exagerations and this way borrowing intelligence with others who memorized ahadeez-----who was responsible for not writing them at that time as paper were there ----whatever texture as for battlefield messages used to be sent to rivals and friends on certain pages written and sealed. Than why it was needed to memorized ? I prompty remember and heard Dr Tahir ul Qadri saying Hazrat Ummar (R) was fed up with muslims when they used to quote ahadeez while he used to talk through Quran. So in Basra he had burnt all the lot of ahadeez collected from every place and area which he could manage to do then. After that Haroon and Mamoon Rasheed collected and wrote. Who was alive after 500 years who had memorized aahadeez at prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and Khulafaey Rashda(R) time. None was alive and it was mere family members of people of those families who said we heard this from our forfathers etc etc. kindly help me using your own intelligence and sit for few minutes and think , do not reject my thinking due to preconceived opinions which fit in your school of thoughts. sorry for not thinking the way you all are thinking. maasalam

[smilesmile]

who was alive after 500 years in the time of harroon Rashed and Mamoon Rasheed to reproduce his memmorized ahadeez.?

['Abdullaah]

As-Salaam Alaikum Wa-Rahmatullahi Wa-Barakatuhu

In page 107 is a continuation of Hadiths from Jabir b. Samura and there is nothing mention Hand lifting Before & After Ruku.

Salam

You could reread from page 106-108 and inshaAllaah that could make it clearer for you. The discussion is there.