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Thread: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

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    Default Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    From Shaykh Haddad's article on the Ghumari school:


    Al-Tark - "not doing something" - can be of several types:

    (i) Out of custom or habit. Grilled desert lizard meat (d.abb) was offered to the Prophet (saws) and he stretched his noble hand to take some but when he heard that it was dabb lizard he withdrew his hand. Asked if such meat was prohibited, he replied: "No, but it is not found in the land of my people and I find it unappetizing (ajiduni a`fuhu)."

    (ii) Out of forgetfulness. The Prophet (saws) inadvertently omitted something in prayer. Asked if the prayer had changed he said: "I am only a human being and I forget just as you forget. If I forget something, remind me [of it]."

    (iii) Lest a new obligation be imposed upon the Umma, for example the fact that the Prophet (saws) stopped praying tarawih in congregation.

    (iv) Because the Prophet (saws) did not give it any thought, as when he left the tree-stump and began to use a pulpit, whereupon the tree-stump was heard moaning until its voice was heard.

    (v) Because what is not being done nevertheless falls under the general meaning of a verse or hadiths. For example, his not practicing the duha prayer and many of the recommended acts since they are comprised in the verse {and do good, that perhaps you may prosper} (22:77).

    (vi) Lest it adversely affect the hearts of some of his Companions. The Prophet (saws) said to `A'isha (ra): "Were it not for the recentness of the unbelief of your people, I would have razed the House and then rebuilt it on the foundation of Ibrahim (as), for the Quraysh fell short from rebuilding it completely."

    All this shows that not doing something does not mean prohibiting it·. Then what is wrong with those fastidious people today who categorically declare things to be prohibited and exaggerate their criticism of them without proof except their claim that the Prophet (saws) did not do them! [This applies, to the Shaykh's own reasoning against sadl/irsal] Whereas his (saws) not doing them does not indicate prohibition nor even dislike·. Similarly, the Prophet (saws) did not do the following things:

    (i) Celebrate the Prophetic Mawlid [in the fashion of later centuries];
    (ii) Celebrate the Night of Mi`raj;
    (iii) Accompany the bier while raising loud dhikr in unison so as to pre-empt - in the Maliki School - talk of the world among those present [some Hanafis also hold this cf. Shaykh Sa`id al-Burhani's margins on `Ala' al-Din `Abidin's al-Hadiyya al-`Ala'iyya]. However, it is better to imitate the Salaf in this circumstance, and they observed silence and meditation on such occasions.
    (iv) Recite the Qur'an upon the dead inside houses;
    (v) Recite the Qur'an upon the dead at the graveyard before and after burial;
    (vi) Perform Tarawih prayer with more than eight rak`as.


    Whoever prohibits any of the above or the like of them by claiming that the Prophet (saws) did not do them: recite against them the verse {Has Allah permitted you, or do you invent a lie concerning Allah?} (10:59)·. And the Prophet (saws) said: "All that I said nothing about is forgiven" (wama sakattu `anhu `afwun), meaning permitted.
    Any comments?


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Asalamualaikum

    While this might be effective against the argument mentioned above, others will manage to come at you with different angles, the infamous one being "if its innovation, it leads to hellfire"

    the Prophet (saws) said: "All that I said nothing about is forgiven"
    I have never heard of this before, any reference and explanation as to what it means?


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    I think Ibn MAsud (RAD) used to do dhikr loudly and on seeing this some people question if this person is a hypocrit. Rasullah (SAW) replied in negative. So how could one structure a sentence giving impression of impermissibility of an act.
    I for one am awarey when something is citied purely to prevent an act which has been practicied by the salf us salheen. The only reason for doing this is out of secterianism. One has to look at the current practice, intention and see if this fits in with rules of sharih or not. Only then one can take a preventative measure and not some blanket statment.
    LEt us not dance to everything our scholar say be that be Berwlwi, Deobandi, Wahaby. Take good from all and be aware of differences and reconcile it in oneself by self analysis and personal inclination and sincere serach for the truth. Surely it is Allah subhanahutall that guides when things seem unclear. LEave scholastic debate with the scholar and show tolarence and respect even though one may not practice it.
    Allahualim


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Quote Originally Posted by WaliRazi View Post
    From Shaykh Haddad's article on the Ghumari school:




    Any comments?
    Dear Brothers & Sisters, Assalaamoalaikum

    Alhamdulillah. At last some light at the end of the tunnel. Hope, Insh'Allah that my brothers & sisters on SF will take some minutes to ponder over the above.

    It would however be all the more fruitful if you continue the exercise and ask yourselves why the Sahabah also did not do certain things. Hope, Insh'Allah that at least some of us will come to an answer, and that what is permissible or not will become clearer to everyone.

    Notwithstanding above, we need all of us to ensure that inwhatever act we indulge, we should be sure that we are not adding to the rules and regulations of the Deen of Islam as the Holy Messenger(SAW) left it, and that we are not doing shirk.

    Brotherly yours
    farook


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Quote Originally Posted by habibati View Post
    While this might be effective against the argument mentioned above, others will manage to come at you with different angles, the infamous one being "if its innovation, it leads to hellfire"


    But isn't there also a hadith that states something like, "whoever initiates a good Sunnah will be rewarded"? I find this very confusing...


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Quote Originally Posted by WaliRazi View Post


    But isn't there also a hadith that states something like, "whoever initiates a good Sunnah will be rewarded"? I find this very confusing...
    Assalam o alaykum,

    Proving a bid’ah with the Hadith “He who initiates a
    virtuous act…”, and its reply


    Many bid’ah lovers quote this Hadith in substantiation of
    their vile perpetrations, therefore it is appropriate that we
    proffer a suitable reply. The words of the Hadith are as
    follows: “Whoever initiates in Islaam a virtuous act, and it
    is carried out after him (his demise), then it is recorded for
    him the reward of the executers, without their rewards
    being diminished in the least.” [Muslim Shareef, vol. 2,
    page 341]

    Reply

    It is absolutely baatil and spurious to use this Hadith to
    substantiate bid’ah. Firstly, it is apparent from the
    narrations of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah –see Mishkaat vol. 1
    page 30—Hadhrat Abdullaah ibn Abbaas –see Mishkaat
    vol.1 page 30—and Hadhrat Ghadeef bin Haarith Ath
    Thamaali —see Mishkaat vol.1 page 31—that Nabi
    said “He who holds on fast to my Sunnat…” and he said
    “he who holds on fast to a good act”, these narrations
    indicate that it is the duty of the Ummat to tread the
    Sunnah and hold on fast to it.

    Secondly, it is also narrated in the same narration,
    “Whosoever makes a call to guidance”, [Muslim Shareef,
    vol. 2 page 341 / Ibn Majah page19 / Majmaus Zawaaid
    vol. 1 page 168]. Through another chain, this same
    narration goes as follows, “Whoever livens a Sunnat from
    amongst my Sunnats, which has died after me…” [Ibn
    Majah page 19 / Tirmidhi vol. 2 page 92 / Mishkaat vol. 1
    page 30].

    In another narration it is stated, “Whosoever livens a
    Sunnat from amongst my Sunnats, and the people practice
    upon it…” [Ibn Majah page 19]

    In another narration, “That person who treads a good
    path…” [Ibn Majah page 19]

    In another narration it is stated, “Whoever teaches
    someone knowledge, then for him is the reward of the one
    who practices it, without any decrease in the reward of the
    executer.” [Ibn Majah, page 21]

    All these narrations are explanations and clarifications of
    the one brief narration, that the import is not to initiate
    an act, rather to call towards it, educate regarding it,
    enliven it, practice upon it and to call others towards
    practicing it. To take the meaning of this narration as
    initiating a Sunnat, is incorrect, and is in contrary to these
    narrations.

    And thirdly, the import of this Hadith is that the thing
    which has proof in the Shariah, be it dalaalatun (direct) or
    ishaaratan (indirect), then there would be reward in its
    implementation. And also, this should be such an act
    whose causative factor and proposer was not present
    during the Khairul Quroon and only came into existence
    thereafter.

    It should also be such that it falls within the ambit of the
    four proofs of the Shariah (Adillah-e-Arba`a). The
    condition of the act being hasana (good) is also coupled
    with the narration and according to the Ahle Sunnat Wal
    Jamaat, no act can be classified as either good or bad,
    unless it is established so by the Shariah. The Shariah
    has cut bid’ah in its roots, so wherefrom can its goodness
    and benefit be established? In essence to prove bid’ah with
    this narration is crass ignorance and an open rebellious act
    against the Shariah.

    Source: Al-Minhaj al-Wadih
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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    Al-Birkili(ar) on the Principle of Tark‏

    Taqī al-Dīn al-Birkilī in a treatise which he wrote to show that it is ḥaram to hire people to recite the Qur’an be it for the dead or for any other reason. In the course of arguing this he invoked the principle that whatever the Prophet(saw) and His Companions(ra) and the Followers did not do it is bidʿah to do it. This is the principle called tark and it has two conditions: that there was a need for that at that time yet was not done and secondly that there was nothing stopping them from doing it as in the case of Tarāwīḥ Prayer for the Prophet(saw) refrained from praying it after two nights for fear that it would be made obligatory for the ummah. Knowing this principle we can affirm that Milad Celebrations on the birthday of the Prophet(saw) are impermissible because the Prophet(saw) and his companions did not hold them at this time though they were wont to listen to poets recite praise of the Prophet k extemporaneously on some occasions. “Extemporaneous” means that they did not schedule it in advance but when somebody happened to be there who could recite the Prophet(saw) might ask him to recite and they all listened to him. Ḥassān ibn Thābit was one of those whom the Prophet(saw) asked to recite poetry defending him and satirizing Quraish. The Sufi imam Shihāb al-Suhrawardī mentioned in the 23rd chapter of his al-ʿAwārif al-Maʿārif that the early Sufis did not use to schedule sessions in which they listened to qasidas but might listen to a qasida extemporaneously if someone happened along who could recite. Al-Suhrawardī insisted that it was not permitted to schedule them. The same is for the rule of praying nafl prayers in jamāʿah according to the Hanafi Madhhab it is prohibited if it is scheduled and if there are more than three persons (some said four), but permitted if up to three people just happen to decide to pray without previous planning. The same principle applies to Milad: we may not schedule them and we may not single out the season of his birthday(saw). Here follows the text of al-Birkilī that I have referred to,

    اعلم يا أخي وفقك الله تعالى وإيانا ، إني أذكر لك أصلا أصيلا يكفيك في هذا الباب إن كان لك عقل ودين وهو إنا عرفنا الدين وحصول الثواب والعقاب من الشارع إذ ليس العقل مستقلا فيه ولو جاز حصول الثواب باستيجار الغير على قراءة لفعله رسول الله صلى الله تعالى عليه وسلم أو حثّ عليه ولفعله الصحابة والتابعين الذين هم خير القرون بشهادة خير الأنام ولم يرو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن واحد من الصحابة والتابعين فعله ولا حثّ عليه كيف وقد أنكر مالك والشافعي مع قرب عهدهما وصول الثواب العبادات البدنية الخالصة إلى الغير ، فيكون بدعة ، قال عليه الصلاة والسلام من أحدث في أمرنا ما ليس منه فهو رد وقال في الهداية ويكره أن يتنفّل بعد طلوع الفجر بأكثر من ركعتي الفجر لأنه عليه والصلاة والسلام لم يزد عليهما مع حرصه على الصلاة ، فانظر كيف جعل عدم فعله عليه الصلاة دليلا على الكراهة وقال صاحب مجمع البحرين في شرحه أن رجلا يوم العيد في الجبانة أراد أن يصلي قبل صلاة العيد فنهاه علي رضي الله عنه ، فقال الرجل إني أعلم أن الله تعالى لا يعذّب على الصلاة ، فقال علي رضي الله عنه وإني أعلم أن الله تعالى لا يثيب على فعل حتى يفعله رسول الله صلى الله تعالى عليه وسلم أو يحثّ عليه انتهى

    Know O brother–may Allah تعالى give you and us success–that I will inform you of a basic principle in this matter [he is discussing the question of whether or not it is permissible to hire someone to recite for the dead] which will be sufficient for if you have intelligence and religion, namely this: we learned the religion and what entails reward and punishment only through the Lawgiver since reason has no independent capacity to know these things; therefore were it permissible to hire another to recite the Messenger of Allah(saw) would have done it or encouraged others to do it and the Companions(ra) and the Followers, who are the best of all generations [of Islam] by the testimony of the best of mankind would have done it. However, it is not reported from a single one of the Companions(ra) or Followers that he did it or that he encouraged others to do it. How it could it be so when Mālik and al-Shāfiʿ although they lived close to the time of the Companions(ra) disconfirmed that the reward of purely bodily worship [like prayers or recitation as opposed to worship which involves ones wealth like charity or mixed monetary and bodily worship like hajj] would reach the dead [if the living dedicated to them some bodily worship that they then performed for them] [because they thought the early Muslims did not do that] and so doing that according to them would be a bidʿah. The Prophet(saw) said: “Whoever innovates in this matter [the matter of Islam] what does not belong to it, it stands rejected.” The author of al-Ḥidāyah [Shaikh al-Islām al-Marghinānī (d. 593 / 1197)] said: “It is prohibited [makrūh] to pray any supererogatory prayers after the appearance of dawn apart from the two rakʿāt of Sunnah of Fajr because the Prophet k did not used to pray more than that though he was always keen for pray. So observe how the author of al-Ḥidāyah considered the fact that the Prophet k had not done something in the area of worship proof that it was not permitted. Similarly the author of Majmaʿ al-Baḥrain [by Ibn al-Saʿātī (d. 694 / 1295; Baghdad)] said in his commentary [on the same work] mentioned that a man on the Day of Eid wanted to pray [some nafl prayers] before the Eid Prayer at the locus reserved for the Eid Prayer outside the city, however ʿAlī prohibited him whereupon the man replied, “I know that Allah تعالى will not punish me for praying so ʿAlī replied, “And I know that Allah will not give any reward for any act unless it was done by the Messenger of Allah(saw) or unless he encouraged that.”


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?



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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saad View Post
    Assalam o alaykum,

    Proving a bid’ah with the Hadith “He who initiates a
    virtuous act…”, and its reply


    Many bid’ah lovers quote this Hadith in substantiation of
    their vile perpetrations, therefore it is appropriate that we
    proffer a suitable reply. The words of the Hadith are as
    follows: “Whoever initiates in Islaam a virtuous act, and it
    is carried out after him (his demise), then it is recorded for
    him the reward of the executers, without their rewards
    being diminished in the least.” [Muslim Shareef, vol. 2,
    page 341]

    Reply

    It is absolutely baatil and spurious to use this Hadith to
    substantiate bid’ah. Firstly, it is apparent from the
    narrations of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah –see Mishkaat vol. 1
    page 30—Hadhrat Abdullaah ibn Abbaas –see Mishkaat
    vol.1 page 30—and Hadhrat Ghadeef bin Haarith Ath
    Thamaali —see Mishkaat vol.1 page 31—that Nabi
    said “He who holds on fast to my Sunnat…” and he said
    “he who holds on fast to a good act”, these narrations
    indicate that it is the duty of the Ummat to tread the
    Sunnah and hold on fast to it.

    Secondly, it is also narrated in the same narration,
    “Whosoever makes a call to guidance”, [Muslim Shareef,
    vol. 2 page 341 / Ibn Majah page19 / Majmaus Zawaaid
    vol. 1 page 168]. Through another chain, this same
    narration goes as follows, “Whoever livens a Sunnat from
    amongst my Sunnats, which has died after me…” [Ibn
    Majah page 19 / Tirmidhi vol. 2 page 92 / Mishkaat vol. 1
    page 30].

    In another narration it is stated, “Whosoever livens a
    Sunnat from amongst my Sunnats, and the people practice
    upon it…” [Ibn Majah page 19]

    In another narration, “That person who treads a good
    path…” [Ibn Majah page 19]

    In another narration it is stated, “Whoever teaches
    someone knowledge, then for him is the reward of the one
    who practices it, without any decrease in the reward of the
    executer.” [Ibn Majah, page 21]

    All these narrations are explanations and clarifications of
    the one brief narration, that the import is not to initiate
    an act, rather to call towards it, educate regarding it,
    enliven it, practice upon it and to call others towards
    practicing it. To take the meaning of this narration as
    initiating a Sunnat, is incorrect, and is in contrary to these
    narrations.

    And thirdly, the import of this Hadith is that the thing
    which has proof in the Shariah, be it dalaalatun (direct) or
    ishaaratan (indirect), then there would be reward in its
    implementation. And also, this should be such an act
    whose causative factor and proposer was not present
    during the Khairul Quroon and only came into existence
    thereafter.

    It should also be such that it falls within the ambit of the
    four proofs of the Shariah (Adillah-e-Arba`a). The
    condition of the act being hasana (good) is also coupled
    with the narration and according to the Ahle Sunnat Wal
    Jamaat, no act can be classified as either good or bad,
    unless it is established so by the Shariah. The Shariah
    has cut bid’ah in its roots, so wherefrom can its goodness
    and benefit be established? In essence to prove bid’ah with
    this narration is crass ignorance and an open rebellious act
    against the Shariah.

    Source: Al-Minhaj al-Wadih
    Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

    The reply part does not address what the Holy Messenger(SAW) did not do and why he did not do a particular action. This reply , therefore, is no reply to the first post.

    As regards the Shariah, although the sources of the Shariah are our two primary sources, the Shariah as it exists today has been written by Man - and is, in no way, perfect. This is for the simple reason that what we have written down in the Shariah is based on a certain knowledge at a particular point in time. Unfortunately, it suffers from lack of a certain knowledge. The Shariah as it stands today is, therefore, not necessarily 100% correct.

    Brotherly yours
    farook


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    Default Re: Bid'ah and the issue of at-tark - "[the Prophet :saw:] not doing something"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi_Taliban View Post
    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    Al-Birkili(ar) on the Principle of Tark‏

    Taqī al-Dīn al-Birkilī in a treatise which he wrote to show that it is ḥaram to hire people to recite the Qur’an be it for the dead or for any other reason. In the course of arguing this he invoked the principle that whatever the Prophet(saw) and His Companions(ra) and the Followers did not do it is bidʿah to do it. This is the principle called tark and it has two conditions: that there was a need for that at that time yet was not done and secondly that there was nothing stopping them from doing it as in the case of Tarāwīḥ Prayer for the Prophet(saw) refrained from praying it after two nights for fear that it would be made obligatory for the ummah. Knowing this principle we can affirm that Milad Celebrations on the birthday of the Prophet(saw) are impermissible because the Prophet(saw) and his companions did not hold them at this time though they were wont to listen to poets recite praise of the Prophet k extemporaneously on some occasions. “Extemporaneous” means that they did not schedule it in advance but when somebody happened to be there who could recite the Prophet(saw) might ask him to recite and they all listened to him. Ḥassān ibn Thābit was one of those whom the Prophet(saw) asked to recite poetry defending him and satirizing Quraish. The Sufi imam Shihāb al-Suhrawardī mentioned in the 23rd chapter of his al-ʿAwārif al-Maʿārif that the early Sufis did not use to schedule sessions in which they listened to qasidas but might listen to a qasida extemporaneously if someone happened along who could recite. Al-Suhrawardī insisted that it was not permitted to schedule them. The same is for the rule of praying nafl prayers in jamāʿah according to the Hanafi Madhhab it is prohibited if it is scheduled and if there are more than three persons (some said four), but permitted if up to three people just happen to decide to pray without previous planning. The same principle applies to Milad: we may not schedule them and we may not single out the season of his birthday(saw). Here follows the text of al-Birkilī that I have referred to,

    اعلم يا أخي وفقك الله تعالى وإيانا ، إني أذكر لك أصلا أصيلا يكفيك في هذا الباب إن كان لك عقل ودين وهو إنا عرفنا الدين وحصول الثواب والعقاب من الشارع إذ ليس العقل مستقلا فيه ولو جاز حصول الثواب باستيجار الغير على قراءة لفعله رسول الله صلى الله تعالى عليه وسلم أو حثّ عليه ولفعله الصحابة والتابعين الذين هم خير القرون بشهادة خير الأنام ولم يرو عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن واحد من الصحابة والتابعين فعله ولا حثّ عليه كيف وقد أنكر مالك والشافعي مع قرب عهدهما وصول الثواب العبادات البدنية الخالصة إلى الغير ، فيكون بدعة ، قال عليه الصلاة والسلام من أحدث في أمرنا ما ليس منه فهو رد وقال في الهداية ويكره أن يتنفّل بعد طلوع الفجر بأكثر من ركعتي الفجر لأنه عليه والصلاة والسلام لم يزد عليهما مع حرصه على الصلاة ، فانظر كيف جعل عدم فعله عليه الصلاة دليلا على الكراهة وقال صاحب مجمع البحرين في شرحه أن رجلا يوم العيد في الجبانة أراد أن يصلي قبل صلاة العيد فنهاه علي رضي الله عنه ، فقال الرجل إني أعلم أن الله تعالى لا يعذّب على الصلاة ، فقال علي رضي الله عنه وإني أعلم أن الله تعالى لا يثيب على فعل حتى يفعله رسول الله صلى الله تعالى عليه وسلم أو يحثّ عليه انتهى

    Know O brother–may Allah تعالى give you and us success–that I will inform you of a basic principle in this matter [he is discussing the question of whether or not it is permissible to hire someone to recite for the dead] which will be sufficient for if you have intelligence and religion, namely this: we learned the religion and what entails reward and punishment only through the Lawgiver since reason has no independent capacity to know these things; therefore were it permissible to hire another to recite the Messenger of Allah(saw) would have done it or encouraged others to do it and the Companions(ra) and the Followers, who are the best of all generations [of Islam] by the testimony of the best of mankind would have done it. However, it is not reported from a single one of the Companions(ra) or Followers that he did it or that he encouraged others to do it. How it could it be so when Mālik and al-Shāfiʿ although they lived close to the time of the Companions(ra) disconfirmed that the reward of purely bodily worship [like prayers or recitation as opposed to worship which involves ones wealth like charity or mixed monetary and bodily worship like hajj] would reach the dead [if the living dedicated to them some bodily worship that they then performed for them] [because they thought the early Muslims did not do that] and so doing that according to them would be a bidʿah. The Prophet(saw) said: “Whoever innovates in this matter [the matter of Islam] what does not belong to it, it stands rejected.” The author of al-Ḥidāyah [Shaikh al-Islām al-Marghinānī (d. 593 / 1197)] said: “It is prohibited [makrūh] to pray any supererogatory prayers after the appearance of dawn apart from the two rakʿāt of Sunnah of Fajr because the Prophet k did not used to pray more than that though he was always keen for pray. So observe how the author of al-Ḥidāyah considered the fact that the Prophet k had not done something in the area of worship proof that it was not permitted. Similarly the author of Majmaʿ al-Baḥrain [by Ibn al-Saʿātī (d. 694 / 1295; Baghdad)] said in his commentary [on the same work] mentioned that a man on the Day of Eid wanted to pray [some nafl prayers] before the Eid Prayer at the locus reserved for the Eid Prayer outside the city, however ʿAlī prohibited him whereupon the man replied, “I know that Allah تعالى will not punish me for praying so ʿAlī replied, “And I know that Allah will not give any reward for any act unless it was done by the Messenger of Allah(saw) or unless he encouraged that.”
    Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

    The points raised above do not answer the points made by Shayk Haddad.

    Brotherly yours
    farook


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