No Isha & Witr prayer upon a person who does not find Isha & Witr prayer time ?

[Khali]

In the English translation of Maraqi al Falah it is stated:

"There is no prayer upon a person who does not find nightfall and witr prayer time, for example, at a land such as Bulgar and the Far East where, during the shortest nights of the year, daybreaks before dusk disappears. There is no prayer because of the absence of the cause which is the time. This, however, is not like the day which is like a year from the days of the Antichrist because of the order to estimate the times. Likewise, fixed time periods in trade, rent, fast, pilgrimage, and post marital waiting period are estimated as we have clarified in the original to this summary. Allah is the facilitator."

Is this the reason that some people don't pray Isha & Witr in the summer ? Is this really the view of the Hanafi madhab ?

[Ali al-Hanafi]

This is not the view of the Madhab as far as I know and all the Ulema I have spoken to about the issue rejected it.

[Ansari]

Moreover, in Bulgaria the sun does fall until 18 degrees in the summer. So this discussion about how to calculate prayer times when isha does not fall, should not even arise for Bulgaria.

[The Fake Shaykh]

In the English translation of Maraqi al Falah it is stated:

"There is no prayer upon a person who does not find nightfall and witr prayer time, for example, at a land such as Bulgar and the Far East where, during the shortest nights of the year, daybreaks before dusk disappears. There is no prayer because of the absence of the cause which is the time. This, however, is not like the day which is like a year from the days of the Antichrist because of the order to estimate the times. Likewise, fixed time periods in trade, rent, fast, pilgrimage, and post marital waiting period are estimated as we have clarified in the original to this summary. Allah is the facilitator."

Is this the reason that some people don't pray Isha & Witr in the summer ? Is this really the view of the Hanafi madhab ?

this in not the mufta bihi opinion of the hanafi madhab.

the incident about bulgar has been mentioned inthe kitab tabyeen ul haqaaiq- by imam zay'ali, the people of bulgar had this problem so they wrote to the hanafi ulama of i think baghdad, the ulama discussed this in detail and the main majority opinion was that they should estimate the time, i think allamah shami also mentiones this incident.

Moreover, in Bulgaria the sun does fall until 18 degrees in the summer. So this discussion about how to calculate prayer times when isha does not fall, should not even arise for Bulgaria.

the place is bulgar in centrel asia, not bulgaria(europe)

[Khali]

this in not the mufta bihi opinion of the hanafi madhab.

Then why is it stated in Maraqi al Falah ?

[suleimanibnsalim]

Lol, I don't think there were many Muslims in Bulgaria at the time of ash-Shurunbalali, sidi Ansari

[Bint Halal]

assalaamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I have just gone over this issue a couple of weeks ago (in Nour ul Idah) and thats what my teacher stated:

It is true there are two opinions and the controversy is a strong one (shadeed al-ikthilaaf) as is apparent from what was mentioned in al-Durr al-Mukhtaar. However, Ibn Abideen discussed the matter at length and pointed out that the opinion that calls for supposing Isha and Fajr prayers according to the nearest place where the night actually comes and goes leads to a number of inconceivable matters or absurdities and therefore he said, فتعين ما قلنا في معنى التقدير ما لم يوجد نقل صريح بخلافه / "Therefore, we must understand taqdeer / "supposing" to mean what I said before," and what he had said before was that the meaning of the statements in the canons of the Madhhab "a person who does not see the cause (sabab) for Isha and Witr has occurred because our ulama are agreed that if we pray them it is adaa (praying them in their time) not qadaa (making them up) rather than supposing them according to the time of the nearest place. Thus, thorough and careful research (tahqeeq) reveals that the two opinions are that one does not have to pray them at all and the other is that one prays them without bothering to ascertain the time according to the nearest place and rather prays them at the time he wishes after praying the Maghrib prayer. Supposing them according to the nearest place is the Shafi Madhhab he says.

Then he pointed out that the hadith about the day becoming long during the time of the Dajjal in which we are instructed to estimate the time of the prayer is not analogous to the situation we are talking about because in that situation the time is estimated according to the very place of the afflicted not some other place as the Shafis are advocating. However, this second opinion in which we are to suppose that the sabab has occurred and therefore we make adaa and not qadaa also supposes the absurd, namely that we do something and assume that to be adaa and not qadaa without any actual sabab. So the correct position is to suppose that it is qadaa not adaa, but nobody from the Madhhab ever said it was qadaa.

In summary, although there are two opinions the opposing opinion has two interpretations and that in my mind is grounds for preferring the first opinion, namely that during the days in which the sun does not set at night we do not pray the Isha Witr and Fajr prayers. (Maulvi Muhammad Yusuf)

[The Fake Shaykh]

assalaamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I have just gone over this issue a couple of weeks ago (in Nour ul Idah) and thats what my teacher stated:

It is true there are two opinions and the controversy is a strong one (shadeed al-ikthilaaf) as is apparent from what was mentioned in al-Durr al-Mukhtaar. However, Ibn Abideen discussed the matter at length and pointed out that the opinion that calls for supposing Isha and Fajr prayers according to the nearest place where the night actually comes and goes leads to a number of inconceivable matters or absurdities and therefore he said, فتعين ما قلنا في معنى التقدير ما لم يوجد نقل صريح بخلافه / "Therefore, we must understand taqdeer / "supposing" to mean what I said before," and what he had said before was that the meaning of the statements in the canons of the Madhhab "a person who does not see the cause (sabab) for Isha and Witr has occurred because our ulama are agreed that if we pray them it is adaa (praying them in their time) not qadaa (making them up) rather than supposing them according to the time of the nearest place. Thus, thorough and careful research (tahqeeq) reveals that the two opinions are that one does not have to pray them at all and the other is that one prays them without bothering to ascertain the time according to the nearest place and rather prays them at the time he wishes after praying the Maghrib prayer. Supposing them according to the nearest place is the Shafi Madhhab he says.

Then he pointed out that the hadith about the day becoming long during the time of the Dajjal in which we are instructed to estimate the time of the prayer is not analogous to the situation we are talking about because in that situation the time is estimated according to the very place of the afflicted not some other place as the Shafis are advocating. However, this second opinion in which we are to suppose that the sabab has occurred and therefore we make adaa and not qadaa also supposes the absurd, namely that we do something and assume that to be adaa and not qadaa without any actual sabab. So the correct position is to suppose that it is qadaa not adaa, but nobody from the Madhhab ever said it was qadaa.

In summary, although there are two opinions the opposing opinion has two interpretations and that in my mind is grounds for preferring the first opinion, namely that during the days in which the sun does not set at night we do not pray the Isha Witr and Fajr prayers. (Maulvi Muhammad Yusuf)

j

[hope1]

j

Assalamua aliakum brohter Fake Shaykh,

Important clarification: The Land of the Bulgars the author is referring to is not present day Bulgaria. Present day Bulgaria is near Turkey and they face no such issues. The land of the Bulgars is the Volga Bulgar area in northern Russia north of Kazakhstan. This is close to Siberia. It was situated near the present day Muslim majority Russian provinces of Tatarstan (the capital city is the famous city of Kazan) and Bashkorstan.

Also I have been told by muftis that the opinion of Allamah Shurunbulali regarding this matter is not relied upon.

[hope1]

Brother suleimanbinsalim also makes a good point. Allamah Shurunbulali was alive almost 300 years before the Ottoman Empire conquered Bulgaria. However after conquering Bulgaria the Muslims were a substantial portion of Bulgaria and even today there are 3 (maybe 4) Muslim majority provinces in Bulgaria.