Deobandi Pakistan vs Deobandi India

[woeuntothee]

As Salam Alaikum,

Is there any difference between the several schools of deoband in India and Pakistan? Is there one central authority (Amir) or unified leadership board? Do they confer with each other? Is it amicable, or is there a diversion and split? Does one school take the opinion/fatwa of the other school as binding?

Reason I ask is because I was recently watching this video by a top Deobandi Sheikh from India named Maulana Mahmood A. Madani where he [diplomatically and intelligently] answered a lot of questions by an Indian TV programme in defense of Islam and the Darul Ulum Deoband. That led to another video in which the respected Sheikh questioned Musharraf the american lapdog in regards to some offensive comments he made about Indian Muslims. What got me worried were the amount of disgusting comments by Pakistanis, in defence of the Shaytan Musharraf and calling the Sheikh a "munafiq" (astagfirallah) and what not. I assumed the Pakistani people respected the ulema of Deoband, considering the mufti of Pakistan is Deobandi and there is such a strong Deobandi influence there.

Gah, Some of the vile krap written by some stupid Pakistans in reference to the Scholar made me literally sick to my stomach.

Added a couple of photos of the Sheikh:
http://india.gov.in/govt/mpimages/rajyasabha/p2027.jpg
http://www.timescontent.com/tss/phot...d%20Madani.jpg

The Question + Answer video 1->8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvwPN8deoUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTIVLL6GlBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgRFL45lnxU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOYq6cE8sA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wohZKq3AHTs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T36xEIFambA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhjDZ9eCCqU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HViHaBTcXqs

The Video where Maulana Saheb confronts the Warlord:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=951iB8zW_wE

[woeuntothee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmwOoL5lObI <= On Terrorism; I'd vote for him.

[umar_italy]

I assumed the Pakistani people respected the ulema of Deoband, considering the mufti of Pakistan is Deobandi and there is such a strong Deobandi influence there.

This line of reasoning is clearly wrong to my eyes.

The Mufti of Pakistan being Deobandi is not related to his "democratic election", or "popularity among the masses", but rather to his own (and Deobandis') unmatched qualifications and competencies in Islamic fields.

So, this doesn't mean that most of the Pakistani people is "Deobandi", in particular, for sure not those animals who hurl nationalist slogans or rhetoric against the "backward Mullahs", as we too often here from ignorant people.

[sudoku]

So, this doesn't mean that most of the Pakistani people is "Deobandi" ..

When I went to Pakistan, most people I met were Barelwi oriented or not very religious inclined to be honest.

[Sunni_Student786]

When I went to Pakistan, most people I met were Barelwi oriented or not very religious inclined to be honest.

I've had the same experiences. The Barelwi influence among the MASSES (not the Ulema or other religious authorities) is overwhelming.

[sudoku]

Today my boss was basically explaining to me how in South Africa it was mostly Barelwis until Tableeghi Jama'at took hold. She also was telling me how many times there would be such arguments amongst the factions that they would even go down to fist fights and worse! . I suppose now I understand why there might be on Deobandi masjid and one 'Sunni' masjid so close to each other (ie 2 mins drive apart max)

[daywalk3r]

sorry to go kinda off topic....

: many times there would be such arguments amongst the factions that they would even go down to fist fights and worse!

no different at many Deo masjids and orgs around India/Pak or even here in the UK.

I dont mean to be rude but sisters (aalimah or not) mostly dont know the sort of scuffs and arguments that take place in the offices and meetings.

[sudoku]

sorry to go kinda off topic....



no different at many Deo masjids and orgs around India/Pak or even here in the UK.

I dont mean to be rude but sisters (aalimah or not) mostly dont know the sort of scuffs and arguments that take place in the offices and meetings.

No I meant the two factions would fight amongst each other. Though she was saying that the day when masjid matters had to be decided among any group, most laypeople would try to keep at a distance cuz of the ruckus. (when I say worse I mean knife/guns would come out, apparently). Even if its a norm, it's disgraceful. I still remember back when I was a teen, I was sitting in the masjid parking lot in the car when two uncles came out, one of them yelling and swearing disgustingly (what desis would call ma behen ki galiyan). I couldn't believe the same uncles I respected would resort to such disgusting behaviour.

Anyways, back on topic! Sorry for deviating away.

[UmHasan]

Much of the general public in Pakistan would not hold the view of any scholar, be it Deobandi or Barelwi, as representative of their own view or 'binding' in any way. Many Pakistanis aspire to be secular now and anything with Western connotations is revered whereas anything with connotations to Islam is considered backwards. Therefore, Maulana Mahmood Madani criticising the Pakistani president is not acceptable to them and the reaction would probably have been just as bad if it was a Pakistani aalim. Coming from the mouth of Moulana Mahmood it is even more unacceptable, because he is an Indian.

But obviously this comtempt for the ulamah of India amongst the public does not exist in the hearts of the ulamah of Pakistan. There is a mutual respect that is not diminished by differences in opinion.

[al-Kankohi]

As Salam Alaikum,

Reason I ask is because I was recently watching this video by a top Deobandi Sheikh from India named Maulana Mahmood A. Madani where he [diplomatically and intelligently] answered a lot of questions by an Indian TV programme in defense of Islam and the Darul Ulum Deoband. That led to another video in which the respected Sheikh questioned Musharraf the american lapdog in regards to some offensive comments he made about Indian Muslims. What got me worried were the amount of disgusting comments by Pakistanis, in defence of the Shaytan Musharraf and calling the Sheikh a "munafiq" (astagfirallah) and what not. I assumed the Pakistani people respected the ulema of Deoband, considering the mufti of Pakistan is Deobandi and there is such a strong Deobandi influence there.

Gah, Some of the vile krap written by some stupid Pakistans in reference to the Scholar made me literally sick to my stomach.

Brother, as our brother from Italy pointed out, your entire logic here is flawed. Here are some points to consider,

[1] Not all Pakistans are Deobandi,

[2] Not all Pakistani commentators on Youtube are Deobandi,

[3] Commentators on Youtube (or other similar sites) do not represent the whole of Pakistan,

[4] Major Deobandi 'ulama in Pakistan and India both despise and condemn Musharraf - there is no disagreement on this matter,

[5] Pakistan is a deeply divided nation, very sectarian,

[6] Deobandis are generally respected and referred to for religious issues by religious minded individuals in Pakistan,

[7] Who ever says Barelwis are in majority in Pakistan is parroting a Barelwi concocted lie, one has to simply count the number of masjids and madrasah's in any given city to get an idea. It's not easy to gauge this so a blanket declaration shouldn't be made in my opinion. Also we have to differentiate between the irreligious bidah prone people from the proper Barelwis.

Conclusion:

Just because a few people from Pakistan slandered Mawlana Mahmood Madani doesn't mean this was from the "Pakistani Deobandi camp". The Deobandis in Pakistan totally accept the Darul Uloom in Deoband and it's ulama, and the ulama of India in general. In fact, these people in no way would represent the Pakistani populace as any non scientific poll would do. I'm not saying there aren't messed up people in Pakistan who hate on the ulama, there are quite a few indeed and that's why I said it is a deeply divided country.

And now the answers to your questions,

Is there any difference between the several schools of deoband in India and Pakistan?

No.

Is there one central authority (Amir) or unified leadership board?

No. This isn't the Tablighi jamat or Jamiat Ulama Islam (political party). Deobandism is a maslak of the ulama not an official body with members and leaders.

Do they confer with each other? Is it amicable, or is there a diversion and split? Does one school take the opinion/fatwa of the other school as binding?

As i said it's not an organization of any sort. Deobandi madrasah's have their Darul Iftas, which is basically the fatwa-issuing organ of any institution. Some times the Darul Ifta's of some madrasah's don't agree with each other but that is in fiqhi matters relating to contemporary issues such as Islamic finance, as far as fundamental beliefs (aqidah) they do not differ at all.